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Author Topic: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]  (Read 104809 times)

poias

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2013, 06:12:17 PM »
Good sensors yes, and yet they consistently sell less than Canon...

If sales figure is a mark of technical prowess then a Civics and Corollas are the best cars in the world.

If a Ferrari cost you the same as a Civic, which would you rather buy?

An 11 DR sensor can be a Ferrari. In what world are you residing?

You're missing my point. If cameras equipped with Sony sensors were Ferraris, people would not pay even higher prices for Canon 11 DR Civics.

You have no point. Masses care about instagram and iphone pictures. None of these dslrs are status items either. A lot of those who care about IQ and print big are not too happy about 11 DR (barring cognitive dissonance).

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2013, 06:12:17 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #106 on: July 22, 2013, 06:44:40 PM »
And thus they are DRawn in, as the moth to the flame.

--Apocryphal proverb
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Lee Jay

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #107 on: July 22, 2013, 07:17:15 PM »
Shoot mRAW or sRAW, problem solved.

mraw and sraw are very poor implementations.  The DNG spec with its lossy-compressed raw mode is much better.  It's still demosaiced like mraw and sraw but it's in object space (like full raw and unlike mraw and sraw), it's linear (like full-raw) and it can be any resolution up to and including full resolution, yet reduced in size by a factor of 3 or more even at the same resolution.  Reduce the resolution by a factor of 2 in each direction and compress this way and the file sizes are reduced by more than a factor of 10.

We are talking about mRAW and sRAW for sensors with very high pixel count. Whatever you do not like about the current implementation, will became a non-problem with higher pixel counts. For people, that definitely do not want to see 75mp or so anywhere in their workflow, this would be the solution.

Mraw and draw are the inefficient and of poor quality especially for color correction.  Higher pixel counts don't solve these issues.  Lossy DNG does and Canon should adopt that approach in their cameras.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2013, 07:25:15 PM »
Shoot mRAW or sRAW, problem solved.

mraw and sraw are very poor implementations.  The DNG spec with its lossy-compressed raw mode is much better.  It's still demosaiced like mraw and sraw but it's in object space (like full raw and unlike mraw and sraw), it's linear (like full-raw) and it can be any resolution up to and including full resolution, yet reduced in size by a factor of 3 or more even at the same resolution.  Reduce the resolution by a factor of 2 in each direction and compress this way and the file sizes are reduced by more than a factor of 10.

We are talking about mRAW and sRAW for sensors with very high pixel count. Whatever you do not like about the current implementation, will became a non-problem with higher pixel counts. For people, that definitely do not want to see 75mp or so anywhere in their workflow, this would be the solution.

Mraw and draw are the inefficient and of poor quality especially for color correction.  Higher pixel counts don't solve these issues.  Lossy DNG does and Canon should adopt that approach in their cameras.

+1 They need to give up on sRAW and mRAW and focus on a combination of:

1. offering cropped sizes like Nikon does (who needs to retain the outer pixels of a distant bird deep in the center of the frame?? it's a total waste of storage space and you don't fps increases when shooting)
2. and compressed RAW as you say for those not super critical times

I'm not sure we will see it though as Canon tends to be very set in their if we though to do it this way first by golly that is the Canon way and the only way and so it shall ever be no matter what. Unfortunately it may take a few more generations, but we can hope.


CarlMillerPhoto

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #109 on: July 22, 2013, 09:04:02 PM »
Like others have said, biggest concern for me is 1. $$$ spent on storage, and 2. time spent transferring.

1. Admittedly, I have a hard time deleting my photos. I"m a photo pack rat. If you're the kind of person who does an annual dump of those dusty raw files, then storage probably isn't a concern regarding a 75mp camera (assuming you already have a decent storage/raid setup). If you're like me, let's hope Canon bundles this guy with a couple hard drives.

2. In real-world situations, USB 3.0 does not transfer at 4Gbits/s (512MB/s), just like thunderbolt does not transfer at 10Gbits/s (1280 MB/s). The average user is going to see ~75MB/s-300MB/s. I think a lot of people see the speed ratings of these interfaces and (assuming they understand the difference between bits & bytes) over-estimate their real-world performance.
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #110 on: July 22, 2013, 09:10:02 PM »
surt sa räven om rönnbären, usch sa Casper när han fick syn på en naken häst.

Visst vore det väl bra om Canon fick ordning på läsbruset och bandning i sina sensorer
Google Translate renders this as:
acidic said the fox about rowan berries, yikes said Casper when he caught sight of a naked horse.
Would not it be gratifying if Canon had to order at läsbruset and strapping in their sensors


Being as other threads have degenerated into things like squirrels with anti-gravity, this doesn't surprise me :)
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jrista

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2013, 09:46:16 PM »
surt sa räven om rönnbären, usch sa Casper när han fick syn på en naken häst.

Visst vore det väl bra om Canon fick ordning på läsbruset och bandning i sina sensorer
Google Translate renders this as:
acidic said the fox about rowan berries, yikes said Casper when he caught sight of a naked horse.
Would not it be gratifying if Canon had to order at läsbruset and strapping in their sensors


Being as other threads have degenerated into things like squirrels with anti-gravity, this doesn't surprise me :)

I'll pass on whatever a naked horse is. On the flip side, I'll definitely take an anti-grav squirrel! :D

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2013, 09:46:16 PM »

bvukich

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #112 on: July 22, 2013, 10:09:22 PM »
surt sa räven om rönnbären, usch sa Casper när han fick syn på en naken häst.

Visst vore det väl bra om Canon fick ordning på läsbruset och bandning i sina sensorer
Google Translate renders this as:
acidic said the fox about rowan berries, yikes said Casper when he caught sight of a naked horse.
Would not it be gratifying if Canon had to order at läsbruset and strapping in their sensors


Being as other threads have degenerated into things like squirrels with anti-gravity, this doesn't surprise me :)

I'll pass on whatever a naked horse is. On the flip side, I'll definitely take an anti-grav squirrel! :D

Oh dear, well that sure escalated quickly.

:P

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #113 on: July 22, 2013, 10:20:52 PM »
Oh dear, well that sure escalated quickly.

Yes, it did...and you know who's to blame.



I'm referring to the anti-gravity squirrels, and their astounding ability to escalate, of course.  :D
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bvukich

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #114 on: July 22, 2013, 10:27:01 PM »
Good sensors yes, and yet they consistently sell less than Canon...

If sales figure is a mark of technical prowess then a Civics and Corollas are the best cars in the world.

If a Ferrari cost you the same as a Civic, which would you rather buy?

An 11 DR sensor can be a Ferrari. In what world are you residing?

You're missing my point. If cameras equipped with Sony sensors were Ferraris, people would not pay even higher prices for Canon 11 DR Civics.

You have no point. Masses care about instagram and iphone pictures. None of these dslrs are status items either. A lot of those who care about IQ and print big are not too happy about 11 DR (barring cognitive dissonance).

If DR is the only thing you care about, then why are you here? Go get something with a Sony sensor and take some pictures.

I bought into Canon initially, and continue to do so, because they have the strongest system FOR ME.  I'd like more DR, who wouldn't?  But that's far from the most important thing to me. YMMV.

Buy whatever suits YOUR needs, but dumping on other peoples choices and opinions, is just a waste of everyone's time.  If you have something constructive to say, even if it's negative, by all means do so.  All we've seen so far from you in this thread however, is drivel.

CarlTN

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #115 on: July 22, 2013, 11:11:57 PM »
Good sensors yes, and yet they consistently sell less than Canon...

If sales figure is a mark of technical prowess then a Civics and Corollas are the best cars in the world.

If a Ferrari cost you the same as a Civic, which would you rather buy?

An 11 DR sensor can be a Ferrari. In what world are you residing?

You're missing my point. If cameras equipped with Sony sensors were Ferraris, people would not pay even higher prices for Canon 11 DR Civics.

You have no point. Masses care about instagram and iphone pictures. None of these dslrs are status items either. A lot of those who care about IQ and print big are not too happy about 11 DR (barring cognitive dissonance).

If DR is the only thing you care about, then why are you here? Go get something with a Sony sensor and take some pictures.

I bought into Canon initially, and continue to do so, because they have the strongest system FOR ME.  I'd like more DR, who wouldn't?  But that's far from the most important thing to me. YMMV.

Buy whatever suits YOUR needs, but dumping on other peoples choices and opinions, is just a waste of everyone's time.  If you have something constructive to say, even if it's negative, by all means do so.  All we've seen so far from you in this thread however, is drivel.

Well said.  And who cares how much DR there is in street photography anyway?

I do wonder if Canon will announce the high MP camera before Nikon announces their new FF camera.  I doubt the production Canon will have 75 MP.  That could simply be a test mule meant to stress the new processing (or some hardware aspect that excites heat or something), could it not? 

ragmanjin

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #116 on: July 22, 2013, 11:59:20 PM »
Good sensors yes, and yet they consistently sell less than Canon...

If sales figure is a mark of technical prowess then a Civics and Corollas are the best cars in the world.

If a Ferrari cost you the same as a Civic, which would you rather buy?

An 11 DR sensor can be a Ferrari. In what world are you residing?

You're missing my point. If cameras equipped with Sony sensors were Ferraris, people would not pay even higher prices for Canon 11 DR Civics.

You have no point. Masses care about instagram and iphone pictures. None of these dslrs are status items either. A lot of those who care about IQ and print big are not too happy about 11 DR (barring cognitive dissonance).

If DR is the only thing you care about, then why are you here? Go get something with a Sony sensor and take some pictures.

I bought into Canon initially, and continue to do so, because they have the strongest system FOR ME.  I'd like more DR, who wouldn't?  But that's far from the most important thing to me. YMMV.

Buy whatever suits YOUR needs, but dumping on other peoples choices and opinions, is just a waste of everyone's time.  If you have something constructive to say, even if it's negative, by all means do so.  All we've seen so far from you in this thread however, is drivel.

Well said.  And who cares how much DR there is in street photography anyway?

I do wonder if Canon will announce the high MP camera before Nikon announces their new FF camera.  I doubt the production Canon will have 75 MP.  That could simply be a test mule meant to stress the new processing (or some hardware aspect that excites heat or something), could it not?

That's a good point, but in my opinion it would seem more likely they're just trying to test two steps ahead of the competition. I figure the next full-frame we see will be another modest increase of 2 or 3MP tops over whichever it's replacing. When they make the move to take down the D800, they're going to make sure they do it right. Start off with a small increase like the 70D, then do the dual-pixel tech in the 1D C II (1D IIC? 2D C?) and maybe something just a slight bit higher-res than the next Nikon alternative for people who need MP bragging rights more than image quality. Either way, whether it's 75MP or a 37MP dual-pixel beast, it probably won't be on the shelves for a while yet.
Just a thought.
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RGomezPhotos

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: July 23, 2013, 02:27:27 AM »
Shouldn't Canon be creating something greater than 23 megapixels before jumping with the big boys?

Yeah, because they didn't already create (your word) a 120 MP APS-H sensor...   ::)

BTW, who are the 'big boys'?  There's only one for FF...and it's not Nikon.

It was great using the magical 120 MP APS-H sensor! What not to like, whether the awesomeness of 120 MP or the un-dead nature of the APS-H. Talk about relevancy!

Oh, and the big boys are all those higher mpx, high DR, superior sensors found in all modern DSLRs except for Canon.

Good sensors yes, and yet they consistently sell less than Canon...

If Nikon could actually build a decent body, with decent ergonomics and UI to put that sensor in, they could become a threat to Canon's market position.  Although they'd need to work on their lenses too, the only shining point in that lineup is the 14-24/2.8, admittedly great, but beyond that they don't have anything notable.

Totally.

When I bought my first DSLR, I didn't base it on MP, FPS or DR. I based it on ergonomics. I could "live" with the UI. but I wouldn't budge on ergonomics. But someone may feel the same for Nikon. Whatever. You can take a great pic with either.

And this whole thing about enormous files..  It's not for you if you're complaining about that. Yes, you'll need the systems to support that adequately. That's part of the price of admission. This looks to be a high-end pro camera and those pros charge the amounts to get that gear. Though, I know plenty of big pros that are happy with their 10-15MP cameras.

And if that's good enough for them....   :D
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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: July 23, 2013, 02:27:27 AM »

sandymandy

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #118 on: July 23, 2013, 03:45:12 AM »
Cool! Actually being able to downsize to 22MP and more sounds amazing (also it should deliver quite noise free images if downsized to "less huge" ). I just wonder if todays lenses got enough resolution for a 75MP sensor.
Anyway i think io need to save some decades to buy it cuz the price is probably going to be ferkin huge since there are not many cameras with such high MP count. Yeah hasselblad n stuff but they will still be more expensive than the 75MP Canon i guess.

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: July 23, 2013, 03:51:21 AM »
What about the possibility that this IS medium format?

Canon supposedly cannot produce high resolution / low pixel-size features on its 360nm/500nm process, while Sony / Nikon can. Because Canon refused to spend and devote the effort towards mastering the 180nm process which is used by Sony for their high-DR processes, Canon cannot immediately compete with Sony and Nikon when it comes to the cutting edge of sensor technology.

One way to get around this problem is to simply use the 500nm sensors for other purposes. Let's say, it's 75mp on a 6x7 format sensor. Canon has mostlsy mastered its 500nm fab technology, so it might be able to produce 6x7 sensors at below Hasselblad and other Medium Format producers' cost and create a new type of market, taking back the performance crown from Nikon and Sony.

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Re: Canon Testing a 75+ Megapixel EOS-1 Body? [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: July 23, 2013, 03:51:21 AM »