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Author Topic: Having Multiple Camera Systems  (Read 6132 times)

afira

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2011, 12:14:36 AM »
I'd agree with most of what Neuro says on this, however, I'll note where I disagree:

On all of the suggestions, I believe ehud will need to answer a few queries:
What is your actual level of experience in photography? Do you feel competent in manual settings, adjusting ISO, aperture and white balance?
Are you happy with pictures as they come out from a P&S?
What problems do you have with the P&S you have? (Pictures too dark, blur, colours are off)
Do you currently own or do any post-processing?
How comfortable are you with doing post-processing?
Can either of you sufficiently manage the picture tools from your Windows/Apple default picture browser?
What is your wife's experience with a camera?
What are the key things your wife is looking for in a camera, other than being light?
Is this something either of you will take up as more than a hobby?
Why is the need for a possible DSLR coming up?
What is the limitation you are facing with the current P&S you have?
Is this something you will also be taking with you on vacations to the Sahara, Amazon jungle or the Swiss Alps?
Will your camera and setup require weather protection or sealing?
Do you want to take your P&S underwater?

I like the Rebels in general, they're good solid cameras and have nice up to date sensors and good return for investment. The weight and size is also a massive benefit to me, particularly for being small and having small hands.

I don't necessarily agree with Neuro on the need for the 17-55 or the 85mm, but that's only because I don't agree with purchasing them initially. I personally would suggest the kit lenses until you and your wife are comfortable with what you have and require more from the DSLR. If you and your wife are decidedly more advanced and want the good lenses now, then aim for the higher end 10-22, 17-55, 50, 85, 70-200, etc.

The flash, I'm mixed about, I agree with buying a separate flash, but I'd wait for a year after you purchase the camera. Reason? Imminent announcements for new flashes, supposedly, which should drop the prices and give you more options. Additionally - for what its worth, possible wireless controls... maybe that's just wishful thinking. I went for the 580EX II, but I wanted massive power, and the ability to slave smaller flashes when I needed them.

For pictures of children and family at the hobby level and not pro-sumer level, I personally feel that RAW is a hindrance more than a help. Typically, most families are distributing the files as jpegs not RAW for family photos. The added hassle of manipulating and converting isn't worth the hassle. While a photographer would have better control, consistency and images from shooting RAW, it, in my opinion, isn't needed for this type of application. For the most part, jpeg is capable of capturing excellent images and can have IQ that is close to on par with RAW. If they decide to take the photography up to the next level, go pro-sumer or sell photos, then work from RAW.

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2011, 12:14:36 AM »

epsiloneri

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2011, 03:53:12 AM »
Hope that helps, and good luck with your decisions! 

I must say I am impressed by your detailed and well-researched response. I hope people realise how valuable you are to this forum and community, taking the time and effort to respond to beginner's questions that are probably not that interesting to you.

I'd agree with most of what Neuro says on this, however, I'll note where I disagree:

I agree with you both, and the reason is the inherent contradiction in being "beginner" and having a $4000 budget to spend. I would also suggest to start small, which is the essence of what you say, afira, but if you insist that you want to spend $4000... then neuroanatomists suggestions are very good, taking the overall picture into account and not focusing on the body/lenses only. That said, I would be a little bit suspicious that he recommended only Canon hardware for dSLR, lenses, P&S and video cam... I suspect this is due to a bias based on his experience, which is not surprising, given that this is a Canon rumours forum.



koolman

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2011, 06:28:09 AM »
Currently all I have is a Canon SX100 IS point and shoot.
In the film era, I had a Pentax SLR with 28-80 cheap lens (abandoned when went digital).

My wife takes more than 100 snapshots and several videos per month.
We want a better camera and can afford spending up to 4000$

We do not make money of photography.
Most of the snapshots are of our family.
At least half are taken indoor (low light).
About 5% are in low light plus long distance such as performance on stage.
Most of the rest is outdoor.

My wife wants a small camera and I want fast lenses.

What do you say about the following combination:
  • Canon 600D + 50mm f/1.4 + 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II
  • Panasonic GF3 + Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 + Leica Summilux DG 25mm f/1.4

This combination provides:
  • Extremely small camera for standard distance.
  • Fast lenses on both 50mm and 80mm (35 equivalence).
  • Best zoom on 100-300 (35 equivalence).

On the other hand, investing in two different camera systems costs money.

Any comments?
Any better alternative with similar cost ?

Dear Ehud,

You basically want/need a camera for family pics, both outdoor and indoor, which account to 95% of your usage, +  "5% low light + long distance"  like on a stage from a distance.
You also mention a fondness for fast lenses, and a preference for small bodies.

$4,000 !! for family pictures ! wow.

I would suggest:
1) canon 600d + 15-85 zoom + flash. That will cover all your family pics indoor + outdoor.
2) To satisfy the fast lens need: canon 50mm 1.8 OR canon 35mm f/2. I am fond of the 35 however it is a "normal" lens, not a portrait lens.
3) As far as the stage from a distance in low light. The 70-200 L 2.8 mark2 - is a very heavy expensive overkill, and I don't see a parent/needing or  lugging around such a heavy, expensive, professional lens. This lens was intended for pro's shooting action like a basket ball game.
As I assume your stage activity is not fast moving like sports, you probably could get away with the 70-300 IS, or the 70-200 L F/4 IS. You can also consider a fast prime if the stage distance is more or less constant such as a 85mm 1.8, or 100mm 2.8 macro.


Prices:
1) camera 700 + flash 400 + lens 750 = 1850
2) 100
=1,950 (and is probably all you need)
3) the zooms I suggested are 500 - 1200 additional - the primes all around 350.


Jerusalem Photographer (canon t2i, 50 1.4, Tamron 17-50 non VC, canon 60mm, canon 35mm L,Samyang 14mm MF,Voigtlander 20mm MF)

Hillsilly

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2011, 06:49:11 AM »
Although you are missing something on the wide end, your suggested Canon kit isn't too bad.  As general advice, a wide angle zoom, a fast prime and telephoto zoom would be fine for most people.  However, if you are taking a lot of photos in low light, I'd echo some of the other replies and suggest you consider a faster prime instead of (or in conjunction with) the 70-200.  That being said, the 70-200 is only just over one stop slower and has the advantage of being a zoom.  You have to weigh up the versatility and reach of a zoom vs marginally noisier photos.

Also, as mentioned, the 70-200 is a big, big lens.  The other lenses mentioned (85 / 100 /135) are substantially smaller and lighter.  This has a big impact on its usability and your desire to take it anywhere.  You do feel conspicuous carrying such a big lens around.  (You'll also get some odd looks taking pictures of children at a park or party even when they are your own children.....or is that just me??)  But it is a great lens.  Many photographers (amateurs and professionals, male and female) love this lens for outdoor portraits.  I'd love to have one, myself. 

There are a few comments on the complexity of dslrs, how $4,000 is a lot to spend etc etc. But if you can afford it, why not buy "L" lenses.  They are better built and just feel better to use.  Personally, I say just go and do it.  If it turns out that you've made a bad decision, there is a very active second hand market and the lenses retain most of their value.  You might lose a small bit, but it won't be the end of the world.

I went the cheap option myself, with the 50/1.8 and the 70-200/4.  Along with a 10-22, I'm set for most things that come up.  This won't give you quite the same low light capabilities or background blur, but would free up some funds for a flash and other accessories and is an option to consider. 

On using two systems, I'd suggest starting with the 600D first.  It is the more versatile of the two cameras.  I'd only consider the Panasonic if it becomes clear that the Canon doesn't perform in a particular area that is important to you and you believe that the Panasonic is better.  But apart from the weight and size, the 600D should be superior in every other aspect and you may not feel the need for two systems.  Save your money until you know that you need it.

But if you are looking at m4/3, the new Olympus 45mm is getting good reviews and should be compatible with the Panasonic. 
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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2011, 07:07:26 AM »
What do you say about the following combination:
  • Canon 600D + 50mm f/1.4 + 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II
  • Panasonic GF3 + Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 + Leica Summilux DG 25mm f/1.4

For the Canon the main thing I'd say is that such a combination won't give you much width, the 600D is a crop sensor camera so 50mm will give you the same angle of view as 85mm would have on your old SLR. Personally I'd consider either a wider prime like the Canon 28mm 1.8 or the Sigma 30mm 1.4 on a 600D or go for a zoom like the Canon 17-55 2.8 IS,  if you really wanted a shallow depth of field maybe add a Canon 85mm 1.8 aswell.

What you don't say about your wife's use is how interested she is in image quality and manual controls. If she just wanted good compact quality pics in the smallest body possible and occasionally playing around with manual settings then the Canon S95 might suit her well. As small as a normal compact but with the image quality/low light performance of a bridge camera.

Alternatively if she did want the best image quality in a small package and manual controls what about the Fuji X100? Its only got a fixed 35mm lens but has crop DSLR standard image quality/low light performance in a reasonabley small stylish package.

I'm just thinking that if its you who really wants more versility on your camera then you might be better off getting a changeble lens camera and just get a fixed lens one for your wife.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 07:08:58 AM by moreorless »

elflord

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2011, 07:34:44 AM »
Currently all I have is a Canon SX100 IS point and shoot.
In the film era, I had a Pentax SLR with 28-80 cheap lens (abandoned when went digital).

My wife takes more than 100 snapshots and several videos per month.
We want a better camera and can afford spending up to 4000$

We do not make money of photography.
Most of the snapshots are of our family.
At least half are taken indoor (low light).
About 5% are in low light plus long distance such as performance on stage.
Most of the rest is outdoor.

My wife wants a small camera and I want fast lenses.

What do you say about the following combination:
  • Canon 600D + 50mm f/1.4 + 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II
  • Panasonic GF3 + Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 + Leica Summilux DG 25mm f/1.4

This combination provides:
  • Extremely small camera for standard distance.
  • Fast lenses on both 50mm and 80mm (35 equivalence).
  • Best zoom on 100-300 (35 equivalence).

On the other hand, investing in two different camera systems costs money.

Any comments?
Any better alternative with similar cost ?

The biggest cost is the 70-200mm IS lens. Would suggest ditching this and getting a fast normal length zoom + a fast prime (50mm f/1.4 or 85mm f/1.8). Spend some time with this setup, take photos, maybe rent or borrow some lenses until you figure out exactly what you want. I found for example that I like fast lenses, and don't care much for zooms.

I don't agree with those who say you shouldn't get the GF3 for your wife though it's not surprising given we're on a canon forum -- you're not getting a whole lot of accessories for it so there's not a lot of duplication -- you could think of it as a $1000- compact. If she wants a small camera she will like a small m43 more than an SLR.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2011, 11:36:49 AM »
What I was thinking, if you want to go a little wider than the 135L, the 85 f/1.2L may be a problem due to the slow autofocus - geared down for precision.  Would the 85 f/1.8 be a better bet in your view?

Yes, for that I'd pick the 85/1.8 over the 85/1.2L. 

I agree with you both, and the reason is the inherent contradiction in being "beginner" and having a $4000 budget to spend. I would also suggest to start small, which is the essence of what you say, afira, but if you insist that you want to spend $4000... then neuroanatomists suggestions are very good, taking the overall picture into account and not focusing on the body/lenses only. That said, I would be a little bit suspicious that he recommended only Canon hardware for dSLR, lenses, P&S and video cam... I suspect this is due to a bias based on his experience, which is not surprising, given that this is a Canon rumours forum.

'Starting small' is relative.  I 'started small' back in 2009 ('small' being a T1i/500D, 17-55mm, 85/1.8, 430EX II, and Manfrotto CF tripod).  I wonder - if I'd gone with the kit lens 18-55mm and 55-250mm combo, would I have been happy with the results, or would I have thought I could do almost as well with a P&S?  People have different budgets and different priorities.  For some, a $100K Porsche Cayenne Turbo is the 'family SUV' (not me, though...I drive a Subaru). 

Yes, my recommendations were certainly based in part on the nature of this forum.  In the compact large-sensor P&S and camcorder segments, Panasonic provides some excellent competition to Canon.  The Panasonic HDC-TM900 is better than the Vixia HF M40 in many ways, but also costs a couple hundred more, and the Canon model does a little better in low light.  Likewise, the Lumix DMC LX-5 is great in low light, and IMO has a slightly better lens (24 vs. 28mm at the wide end, and the max aperture drops more slowly and only to f/3.3).  But, the LX-5 is noticeably larger than the S95 - the latter fits in a jeans pocket, the former does not. 
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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2011, 11:36:49 AM »

ehud.eshet

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2011, 05:10:39 PM »
Many thanks to all replies.

What is your actual level of experience in photography? Do you feel competent in manual settings, adjusting ISO, aperture and white balance?
Are you happy with pictures as they come out from a P&S?
What problems do you have with the P&S you have? (Pictures too dark, blur, colours are off)
Do you currently own or do any post-processing?
How comfortable are you with doing post-processing?
Can either of you sufficiently manage the picture tools from your Windows/Apple default picture browser?
What is your wife's experience with a camera?
What are the key things your wife is looking for in a camera, other than being light?
Is this something either of you will take up as more than a hobby?
Why is the need for a possible DSLR coming up?
What is the limitation you are facing with the current P&S you have?
Is this something you will also be taking with you on vacations to the Sahara, Amazon jungle or the Swiss Alps?
Will your camera and setup require weather protection or sealing?
Do you want to take your P&S underwater?
We both play with manual adjustments. Especially, with ISO, aperture, shutter speed, and compensation. We hardly touch the white balance.
My P&S is very noisy above ISO 200 and its flash is not powerful enough longer than 3 meters.
Outdoor pictures are good. I hate the lag between pressing the shutter and the actual snapshot.
When my daughter perform on stage we both are watching.
So me using the heavy gear is not a problem.
When my wife is alone she need a much lighter camera.

She wants to be able to use higher ISO.
To catch the moment and not miss it due to slow performance.
Take better video clips (SX100 IS capture 640 X 480 only).
Play with depth of field.

We do not use post processing and not planing to.
I guess jpeg quality is enough for my use.
On the other hand, i will probably want to try HDR in extreme light conditions.

It will never be more than a hobby.
However, my wife invest lots of time on this hobby.
After every trip abroad she use a photo album software and print the final album as a book (printed by professionals on a quality paper).

Three months ago a friend gave us his old Nikon D70 with 18-135 slow zoom.
The pictures were better than with our P&S.
However, it was too heavy for my wife and the lens did not offer a lot more.

I found Canon easier than Nikon.
However, if i have to choose one system, it probably would be a mirrorless Panasonic (I hope no one offended).

Currently, we take the camera everywhere and we do not plan to change that.

Sorry for not providing all answers on the first post.


elflord

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2011, 06:42:14 PM »
Many thanks to all replies.


We both play with manual adjustments. Especially, with ISO, aperture, shutter speed, and compensation. We hardly touch the white balance.
My P&S is very noisy above ISO 200 and its flash is not powerful enough longer than 3 meters.
Outdoor pictures are good. I hate the lag between pressing the shutter and the actual snapshot.
When my daughter perform on stage we both are watching.
So me using the heavy gear is not a problem.
When my wife is alone she need a much lighter camera.

She wants to be able to use higher ISO.
To catch the moment and not miss it due to slow performance.
Take better video clips (SX100 IS capture 640 X 480 only).
Play with depth of field.

We do not use post processing and not planing to.
I guess jpeg quality is enough for my use.
On the other hand, i will probably want to try HDR in extreme light conditions.

It will never be more than a hobby.
However, my wife invest lots of time on this hobby.
After every trip abroad she use a photo album software and print the final album as a book (printed by professionals on a quality paper).

Three months ago a friend gave us his old Nikon D70 with 18-135 slow zoom.
The pictures were better than with our P&S.
However, it was too heavy for my wife and the lens did not offer a lot more.

I found Canon easier than Nikon.
However, if i have to choose one system, it probably would be a mirrorless Panasonic (I hope no one offended).

Currently, we take the camera everywhere and we do not plan to change that.

Sorry for not providing all answers on the first post.

Sounds like micro 4/3 (mirrorless panasonic/olympus -- both share the same lenses) is a perfect fit for your wife. The main downside (of m43) for you is that there is a lack of native fast telephoto lenses (you can mount just about anything via an adapter but you will have to focus manually for the most part).  That combined with the slightly smaller sensor size means that even APS-C SLR systems have the edge over m43 when it comes to shallow dof -- it's a combination of a slightly larger sensor and faster normal through telephoto lenses available at reasonable prices. There are some fastish m43 lenses but most of them are quite wide. If you do stick with m43, take a look at the Panasonic GH2.

Cornershot

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2011, 07:14:02 PM »
The thing I don't care for in the four thirds cameras is no optical viewfinder. LCD in bright sunlight sucks. The ones with hotshoes allow you to add a viewfinder but then you can't use an external flash or other accessory. And you do sometimes need a good fill when the sun is overhead. Why did Panasonic take the hotshoe off the new GF3?
Maybe look into the Canon G12. It seems to meet most of your needs so will perform a lot better than your point and shoot. It's relatively compact for what it has, offers full manual capability, 720p video and decent high iso performance. Your wife will never be able to shoot the 70-200 2.8 if she thinks that 18-135 is too heavy. Also remember for full 1080p video, you'll need a pretty good computer to do video editing or even play it smoothly.

afira

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2011, 08:29:00 PM »
We both play with manual adjustments. Especially, with ISO, aperture, shutter speed, and compensation. We hardly touch the white balance.
My P&S is very noisy above ISO 200 and its flash is not powerful enough longer than 3 meters.
Outdoor pictures are good. I hate the lag between pressing the shutter and the actual snapshot.
When my daughter perform on stage we both are watching.
So me using the heavy gear is not a problem.
When my wife is alone she need a much lighter camera.

She wants to be able to use higher ISO.
To catch the moment and not miss it due to slow performance.
Take better video clips (SX100 IS capture 640 X 480 only).
Play with depth of field.

We do not use post processing and not planing to.
I guess jpeg quality is enough for my use.
On the other hand, i will probably want to try HDR in extreme light conditions.

It will never be more than a hobby.
However, my wife invest lots of time on this hobby.
After every trip abroad she use a photo album software and print the final album as a book (printed by professionals on a quality paper).

Three months ago a friend gave us his old Nikon D70 with 18-135 slow zoom.
The pictures were better than with our P&S.
However, it was too heavy for my wife and the lens did not offer a lot more.

I found Canon easier than Nikon.
However, if i have to choose one system, it probably would be a mirrorless Panasonic (I hope no one offended).

Currently, we take the camera everywhere and we do not plan to change that.

Sorry for not providing all answers on the first post.

The above information fills out a lot of gaps from the initial post. Lets evaluate this piece by piece by equipment:

Replacement P&S - S95 or a G12 if you go Canon. I've always been a fan of the G series and will probably consider the replacement when it comes out. However, the Panasonic Lumix is really where things shine for me. These cameras are underwater monsters, fast, light and everything you want from a P&S. Having a P&S is important, especially for birthday dinners, small functions and doing things that require light, small and less conspicuous cameras. I would go to the camera store and have a play with the three mentioned cameras, look at the flash capabilities, zoom ranges and the general ergonomics of the cameras and invest in what feels and looks the best to you. I usually bring down a 2mb SD and have a play with the P&S I'm considering with the salespeople. Of note, the G12 has an HDR mode which does jpeg post-processing for you and combines the image (HDR is possible from jpeg, but RAW is 800 times better) and will shoot RAW.

Mirrorless or Micro 4/3s - I personally don't care much for these systems as you tend to get better results from a DSLR. I'd agree with the suggestions prior, Panasonic or Olympus are the way to go from the test results. I wouldn't invest in a 4/3s and a DSLR though, that seems like a massive waste of money and energy, not to mention, the additional baggage. It becomes a question of what you're willing to sacrifice.

DSLR - With the information given, I'm a bit mixed about what to suggest here. Honestly, a small Rebel would suit your wife and your needs. The 600D is the way to go, or possibly wait for another few months and get a 650D when it arrives around 2nd quarter 2012. You should have a nice set of features including better ISO, noise control and 18 mega pixels of colourful goodness. If you had a desire to step further into the hole, possibly a 7D for you, and you alone. This is not a camera your wife would use, it is far too heavy and bulky and looks like a brick surrounded in black plastic and rubber. This would give you your manual settings controls and something to start collecting some nice lenses for.

Video Camera - Sony or Canon. Period. I don't like the Panasonics, but that's only because the controls are really difficult for me to handle and they seem to be made for men and men alone. I've previously shot with a new Sony, and it handled like a charm in low light. Stills were even decent enough to warrant a few retouches and presentation. Ergonomics were good and the camera was lightweight and didn't impede on my ability to have fun while filming.

Lenses, Post Processing and RAW v JPEG - Since neither of you have a desire to mess with things post facto, obviously you want to get the best images from the first time around, stick to jpeg (as mentioned before, it is possible to HDR jpegs even if it isn't as pretty) and skip the software. In my opinion, at least 50%-60% of my work is post processing simply due to time, however, it has fallen significantly with the addition of good lenses. So, this is where Neuro's suggestions of better lenses come into play. Better glass will give you better results the first time around. This doesn't mean you need to purchase the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II. This means you should invest in at least one good zoom and one good prime initially. I still wouldn't avoid the kit lenses, they're good for how cheap they are, and they are incredibly light weight. You'll still turn out many usable images, and have a range that the zoom and prime you select may not cover. Your wife will even be able to use them without much hassle about the weight. Again, test this at your camera store before investing.

Flash and accessories - Get a separate flash period. It made a massive difference for me in everything I did. The 430 EX II is fine. Tripod is an absolute must, invest well in this item. Don't forget to invest in some filters and hoods.

Total Price: $500 on a P&S, $800 on a Rebel w/kit lenses, I would drop an additional $1200-$1600 in glass, so Neuro's suggestions may be a way to go, $800 on a video camera, and $600 on accessories, or thereabouts.

elflord

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2011, 08:41:08 PM »
The thing I don't care for in the four thirds cameras is no optical viewfinder. LCD in bright sunlight sucks. The ones with hotshoes allow you to add a viewfinder but then you can't use an external flash or other accessory. And you do sometimes need a good fill when the sun is overhead. Why did Panasonic take the hotshoe off the new GF3?
Maybe look into the Canon G12. It seems to meet most of your needs so will perform a lot better than your point and shoot.

The missing hot shoe and viewfinder boils down to a tradeoff between size and features. The GF3 is much smaller than the Canon G12  and has a much larger sensor. If you're prepared to use a larger camera than the GF3, the Panasonic G3 and GH2 both have built in viewfinders. The G3 is a little smaller than the G12 and the GH2 is slightly larger. Both will perform much better in low light (bigger sensor + faster lenses)

TexPhoto

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2011, 08:51:35 PM »
I have one overriding feeling when reading your post, and please don't take this the wrong way.

It seems that you want to go from a compact camera, to $4000 worth of kit to take "snapshots" of your family. That just seems crazy to me. If you have no interest in photography and learning how to use the kit to get the best results, you really wont see much benefit from having all that expensive gear! A 70-200 2.8 is a big beast, you wont be able to just pick it up and start taking great shots with it without and practice/experience, and if your not interested in photography per se, i would imagine you would get fed up pretty quick!

Agree with all of the above.  Going from Golf Cart to Ferrari will result in some serious crashes.  Also buying photo gear is not something you do in one shot every 5-10 years.  Buy one camera, get used to it and figure out what you need next.  I'd recommend a 60D + 18-135mm kit lens, plus a fast 50.  Then give yourself time to think about what you want next.  Carry around a cinderblock in your camera bag for a month before buying a 70-200 2.8 II.  It's that heavy.

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2011, 08:51:35 PM »

Cornershot

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2011, 09:42:26 PM »
You can't really compare any interchangeable lens camera system to the G12 since you have to take into account spare lenses and flash. The G12 will always win in total size. In pure capability, sure, an interchangeable system beats it at high ISO. But the G12 is an easier system to "take everywhere" and the optical viewfinder is major. Plus, it sounds like the G12 fits their user profile. They're not really very demanding users. It's more of a lifestyle choice.  Throw the G12 into your bag and go. Something that's always ready and offers far better quality and capability than their point and shoot.



[/quote]

The missing hot shoe and viewfinder boils down to a tradeoff between size and features. The GF3 is much smaller than the Canon G12  and has a much larger sensor. If you're prepared to use a larger camera than the GF3, the Panasonic G3 and GH2 both have built in viewfinders. The G3 is a little smaller than the G12 and the GH2 is slightly larger. Both will perform much better in low light (bigger sensor + faster lenses)
[/quote]
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 09:46:29 PM by Cornershot »

koolman

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2011, 04:20:19 AM »
Many thanks to all replies.

We both play with manual adjustments. Especially, with ISO, aperture, shutter speed, and compensation. We hardly touch the white balance.
My P&S is very noisy above ISO 200 and its flash is not powerful enough longer than 3 meters.
Outdoor pictures are good. I hate the lag between pressing the shutter and the actual snapshot.
When my daughter perform on stage we both are watching.
So me using the heavy gear is not a problem.
When my wife is alone she need a much lighter camera.

She wants to be able to use higher ISO.
To catch the moment and not miss it due to slow performance.
Take better video clips (SX100 IS capture 640 X 480 only).
Play with depth of field.

We do not use post processing and not planing to.
I guess jpeg quality is enough for my use.
On the other hand, i will probably want to try HDR in extreme light conditions.

It will never be more than a hobby.
However, my wife invest lots of time on this hobby.
After every trip abroad she use a photo album software and print the final album as a book (printed by professionals on a quality paper).

Three months ago a friend gave us his old Nikon D70 with 18-135 slow zoom.
The pictures were better than with our P&S.
However, it was too heavy for my wife and the lens did not offer a lot more.

I found Canon easier than Nikon.
However, if i have to choose one system, it probably would be a mirrorless Panasonic (I hope no one offended).

Currently, we take the camera everywhere and we do not plan to change that.

Sorry for not providing all answers on the first post.

It sounds like your wife's preference is something small, with high ISO speed and fast shutter speed response.
The fast shutter speed is tricky as this is a problem that has plagued all NON DSLR cameras - until recently. Now the newer generation of MFT bodies like the olympus pen ep3 or the panasonic GF3 - seem to be as fast as a DSLR. I assume P&s bodies will catch up soon. The Olympus Pen by the way - may be a good choice for your wife. It has a slew of lens options, and might be able to serve all purposes. They even have fast primes for it, like the new 12mm f/2 and the new 45mm f/2.8.

Assuming you want to purchase another camera for yourself, and are not restricted by weight, then a basic DSLR like the 600d or 60d + a 15-85 lens could help you.

Both the PEN + the 60d + lens - will still be belllow the 4k budget.



Jerusalem Photographer (canon t2i, 50 1.4, Tamron 17-50 non VC, canon 60mm, canon 35mm L,Samyang 14mm MF,Voigtlander 20mm MF)

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Re: Having Multiple Camera Systems
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2011, 04:20:19 AM »