September 22, 2014, 06:40:01 AM

Author Topic: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild  (Read 28223 times)

Atonegro

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2013, 05:45:45 PM »

"SuperCamera - Able to fill entire hard drives with a single burst."

Ok, my i7 w/LSI RAID can handle that :)

Seriously, I really want the high MP for Landscape; and I suppose th Commercial Photographers also want it.  Maybe some wedding guys.  But I am not sure we need the high frame rate.  The Sports guys shooting for SI probably want turn-around time.

I'd be very happy with 70 MP+ at maybe 5 fps.  With the savings I might be able to muster a 1Dx for the sports shoots :)
 



Haha, when I began using photoshop, I bought a really BIG hard-drive...about 1600 megabytes....I did not think I would ever fill this....

Double HaHa, The first hard drive I bought was $10,000 for a 10Mbyte drive (14 inch platters, rackmount) and I have a couple dozen 4Mbyte compact flash cards...

Wow !! That beats me :-)
My First hard drive was a 20Mb-one, and my first CF-card was a 8 Mb....I don't have those anymore, but I still have a 32 Mb card....
DCS 3c, D2000, 1DS, 1DS2, 1DS3, D800e, D810 and now waiting for the 1DS-X.....or a Nikon D4X...

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2013, 05:45:45 PM »

Diko

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2013, 05:48:16 PM »
Double HaHa, The first hard drive I bought was $10,000 for a 10Mbyte drive (14 inch platters, rackmount) and I have a couple dozen 4Mbyte compact flash cards...

WAs it this one?

http://www.crn.com/slide-shows/storage/240142353/the-history-of-the-hard-drive-and-its-future.htm?pgno=7

Drizzt321

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2013, 05:51:56 PM »
It has to be confirmed whether the reported 80MP figure is real - or whether this is a 40MP sensor with DualPixel technology.

The resolution needed for 8K video is ~39MP.
So, it makes a lot of sense, actually, if Canon is testing an 8K sensor ... which would be 40MP.

This could get lost in translation and be reported as 80MP, though - if DualPixel technology is used.

Honestly, 80MP doesn't make much sense, except for bragging rights.

Are we talking about pixels or photosites? :P

While Canon calls it Dual-Pixel, it's really Dual-Photosites, single pixel. And if they say 80MP, and mean pixel, then that's either 80 MP out of the sensor, or 80MP as recorded in an image to card. Maybe they're doing like Nokia with the PureView concept. Go super high pixel count, and while you maybe allow someone to capture that, typical might be downsampled quite a bit to, say, 20 MP or 36MP.
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sjprg

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2013, 05:59:12 PM »
Well I'm a Canon user and I've been saving for four years with a break for the D800E, so bring on the 75MP. I  should be ready by the time it is available.

Atonegro

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2013, 06:04:14 PM »
I don't believe Canon would dream of really putting an 80 mp camera into the market just yet. These companies all drip feed technology to the consumer: I'm sure we'll see something in the resign of 35 - 40 first.

Nikon jumped the consumer grade FF from twelve to thirty six in a bid to grap more market share of that sector.

Didn't work.

It did work !

no it did not.
or do you think nikon will be satisfied with you switching?   ;D

honestly...  has the market share of nikon DSLR´s grown?
all numbers i have seen so far are pretty good for canon.

and i know 3 nikon user who switched to canon and a 5D MK3.


You are missing the point.
DCS 3c, D2000, 1DS, 1DS2, 1DS3, D800e, D810 and now waiting for the 1DS-X.....or a Nikon D4X...

English is not my native language, I learned  it only a few years ago. If you don't like my spelling, I will be happy to write it in Dutch for you.

Atonegro

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2013, 06:06:30 PM »
Well I'm a Canon user and I've been saving for four years with a break for the D800E, so bring on the 75MP. I  should be ready by the time it is available.

+1 !
DCS 3c, D2000, 1DS, 1DS2, 1DS3, D800e, D810 and now waiting for the 1DS-X.....or a Nikon D4X...

English is not my native language, I learned  it only a few years ago. If you don't like my spelling, I will be happy to write it in Dutch for you.

Dylan777

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2013, 06:07:38 PM »
Will Canon releases more NEW lenses to support 75+ MP?
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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2013, 06:07:38 PM »

Click

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2013, 06:14:56 PM »
Sweet.  Time to start saving those pennies, just in case. About 1.2 million of them ought to do the trick.
Up here in Canada, the penny has been phased out....  I can't save up 1,200,000 of them so I guess I can't get this new camera.


You can save nickels... It's five times less than pennies, and you can get this camera.  ;) :)

grahamsz

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2013, 06:19:23 PM »
Will Canon releases more NEW lenses to support 75+ MP?

I was trying to figure out how much of an effect that would make. If they have 3 "pixels" per photosite (one for each of rgb) then I don't know that they'll need any big lens jump.

That would bring the color resolution inline with the luminescent resolution

KyleSTL

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2013, 06:31:00 PM »
Why does everyone think that the 75MP quoted implies that it's dual-pixel, and that number is twice what the actual filesize will be?  Canon annouced the 70D as 20MP, and it has 20MP file outputs.  I'm not sure why everyone keeps jumping to conclusions on it.  Just because it sounds like a really big number?  Because it would have a pixel density almost identical to the 10MP Nikon 1 series cameras (J1, V1, J2, S1) or be equivalent to a 28MP Canon APS-C camera?
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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2013, 06:44:50 PM »
Would be interresting which lenses meet this resolution at an high image quality.
In Spring I visited an collegue, who works for an big optical glass producing company in Germany and I was able to look at some - non confidental - production processes.
He is specialized in the production of special glass for astronomical lenses. Maybe for some military products too...
He told me that it would only make sense, if they use more highend glass for highly priced lenses to minimize CA and other optical problems. But then one lens would cost 2-5 times the price of an existing lens.

This could be an crux too. If this is neccessary, the expensive lenses will get astronomically high priced and the normal enthusiast will be only able to buy mid-ranged lenses (where Canon will not put all its efforts in developing an extraordinary IQ in an mid ranged lens)



Drizzt321

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2013, 06:54:08 PM »
Why does everyone think that the 75MP quoted implies that it's dual-pixel, and that number is twice what the actual filesize will be?  Canon annouced the 70D as 20MP, and it has 20MP file outputs.  I'm not sure why everyone keeps jumping to conclusions on it.  Just because it sounds like a really big number?  Because it would have a pixel density almost identical to the 10MP Nikon 1 series cameras (J1, V1, J2, S1) or be equivalent to a 28MP Canon APS-C camera?

I think people are focusing on Canon calling it Dual Pixel. When it's really not 2 sub-pixels, but 2 separate photosites per pixel. At least, that's what I read of what it is. 2 photosites sitting in the same space under the same Bayer color filter which together output 1 actual pixel of output in the Bayer CFA data.

Unless what they are doing is each 'pixel' has some kind of micro-prism that the light that hits one 'pixel' onto 3 separate photo sites with their own and combined they take up the same space as 1 'normal' photosite and are used to get 1 pixel, then it'd be interesting to see if we really can call it 75MP or would it then be 25MP? A lot of ifs, so we'll just have really wait until we get better leaks or Canon telling us what is going on. Which they won't do until the announcement, and we might still have to wait around for the launch to really know what's going on.
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RGomezPhotos

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2013, 07:05:28 PM »
Canon isn't going to announce their big MP camera until the end of 2013.  November at the latest.  I would love a true upgrade from the 1DS Mark III for us fashion types.  For me, there really isn't anything worthwhile in between my 5D MKII and MF.  Really.  If my cam had 16-bit A/D and a couple more FPS, I'd be totally fine.

If they can release this camera for around $12k and be a real competitor to MF, those competitors should be very concerned.  Canon certainly has the muscle for it.
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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2013, 07:05:28 PM »

Drizzt321

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2013, 07:39:49 PM »
Canon isn't going to announce their big MP camera until the end of 2013.  November at the latest.  I would love a true upgrade from the 1DS Mark III for us fashion types.  For me, there really isn't anything worthwhile in between my 5D MKII and MF.  Really.  If my cam had 16-bit A/D and a couple more FPS, I'd be totally fine.

If they can release this camera for around $12k and be a real competitor to MF, those competitors should be very concerned.  Canon certainly has the muscle for it.

The one bit that MF will always have over a 35mm frame is physical sensor size. It can give a different look & feel than 35mm, even in digital. Not saying a super high MP/DR/IQ sensor at in the 35mm format wouldn't be great, it would be. Just won't still always work for everybody that has chosen MF, although some may very well be able to switch.
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jrista

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2013, 08:09:31 PM »
Would be interresting which lenses meet this resolution at an high image quality.
In Spring I visited an collegue, who works for an big optical glass producing company in Germany and I was able to look at some - non confidental - production processes.
He is specialized in the production of special glass for astronomical lenses. Maybe for some military products too...
He told me that it would only make sense, if they use more highend glass for highly priced lenses to minimize CA and other optical problems. But then one lens would cost 2-5 times the price of an existing lens.

This could be an crux too. If this is neccessary, the expensive lenses will get astronomically high priced and the normal enthusiast will be only able to buy mid-ranged lenses (where Canon will not put all its efforts in developing an extraordinary IQ in an mid ranged lens)

I think Canon's latest generation of lenses, the ones that have been getting released over the last few years (most of the Mark II generation, with the exception of the ultra-wide angle stuff like the 16-35 II), is probably more than capable enough for 75mp worth of pixels in a bayer type sensor. I would say they are probably good enough until 35mm pushes into the hundred megapixel range or farther.

If we assume that at some point, FF and APS-C sensors will use the kind of small pixels we find in the most recent phone and P&S cams, which is around 1.2µm on a 65nm BI process, then we would be looking at 600mp FF (30,000x20,000 pixels exactly) and 230.75mp APS-C (18583x12417 pixels). It is easier to optimize a lens that is small, which is why we don't see severe optical aberrations in smartphone camera photos. There would certainly be some challenge in optimizing lenses to support 600 megapixels of full-frame goodness!

I agree that consumer-grade lenses will suffer, and won't necessarily be up to snuff to extract the most from a high resolution sensor. Keep in mind, though, final image output resolution is a convolution of the resolution of the lens and the resolution of the sensor. Increasing either will increase the resolution of the final output, so it is not like a poorer grade consumer lens will really drag IQ down...you just won't get as much out of the whole setup as if you had a high end L-series lens. The same also goes for say slapping one of today's top-end L-series lenses on a hypothetical 600mp FF camera...you would definitely see an improvement over slapping one of today's top-end L-series lenses on a 40, 50, or 75mp FF camera, even if it isn't ideally optimized for the higher resolution.
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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2013, 08:09:31 PM »