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Author Topic: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild  (Read 29882 times)

CarlTN

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2013, 01:43:37 PM »
As I have said before, it does seem that, especially for a 24-70 zoom, it will be difficult to make full use of the outer 30% of the image, when mounted to a very high resolution full frame sensor.  But the middle 70% should still resolve plenty of detail.  I suspect landscape shooters who print really large, using lenses wider than 24mm, would have an even more difficult time making use of the outer image in those cases.  (Even the Zeiss 15mm f/2.8 probably will not look "sharp" in its periphery, when coupled to an ~75mp full frame sensor).  But of course, there is always stitched panorama...in which case you don't really need or desire, extreme wide angle lenses. 

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2013, 01:43:37 PM »

TexasBadger

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2013, 01:51:56 PM »
Bring us a shrubbery

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neuroanatomist

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2013, 01:55:44 PM »
the D3x has higher resolution together with nikon 24-70 than Canon together with the new 24-70 from Canon
My question is, has Rick got a well centered copy of the Nikon lens.

It makes sense that that would be your question, given the pro-Nikon, anti-Canon bias that your CR posts display.

What if he tested a good copy of the Nikon lens, but got a Canon lens that had internal damage from being dropped to the factory floor a few times before it was shipped, and the Nikon lens still had only very slightly higher numbers?  No, that wouldn't fit with your viewpoint at all, would it?  ::)

Ahh, looking at the RAW files are proof.  I guess DxO and TDP got not-well copies of the Nikon lens, too.
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CarlTN

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2013, 02:01:24 PM »
with proper USM i don't se any problem with that d800 has a lot more resolution than the canon combo

The parts of the image you enlarged, are in the middle 50% of the image.  Not really where the problem comes into play.

neuroanatomist

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2013, 02:03:14 PM »
with proper USM i don't se any problem with that d800 has a lot more resolution than the canon combo

I guess that DxOMark disagrees...  (It seems they're only right when it comes to DR and sensors...even their Lens Score is suspect, because clearly, despite the optical superiority of the Canon lens on most of their measurements, the Nikon combo merely tied the Canon combo, when it obviously should have scored higher  ::) .)
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CarlTN

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2013, 02:06:10 PM »
with proper USM i don't se any problem with that d800 has a lot more resolution than the canon combo

I guess that DxOMark disagrees...

Why does the bottom CA graphic, look like 16 micrometers is 10x more than 30 micrometers, when in reality it's ~1/2 as much CA as 30?

insanitybeard

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2013, 02:06:15 PM »
I download the raw files, that lens from Nikon is not well. The  lens suffers from centering defects
DONT BELIVE EVERYTHING YOU READ JRISTA, and please be little more critical  to what you se,  AND PHOTOZONES MEASUREMENTS ARE FROM A  HEALTHY LENS

When you ask us to be a little more critical of what we see, and not believe everything we read, does that go for what you say as well? From a completely neutral standpoint, it's hard to believe you are being objective about many of the things you say given what appears to be a continual anti Canon stance from yourself.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 02:07:54 PM by insanitybeard »
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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2013, 02:06:15 PM »

CarlTN

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #82 on: August 01, 2013, 02:17:15 PM »
I download the raw files, that lens from Nikon is not well. The  lens suffers from centering defects
DONT BELIVE EVERYTHING YOU READ JRISTA, and please be little more critical  to what you se,  AND PHOTOZONES MEASUREMENTS ARE FROM A  HEALTHY LENS

When you ask us to be a little more critical of what we see, and not believe everything we read, does that go for what you say as well? From a completely neutral standpoint, it's hard to believe you are being objective about many of the things you say given what appears to be a continual anti Canon stance from yourself.

Of course he is not objective, but then no human can be perfectly objective about anything. 

The question is, from a sensor performance and resolution standpoint, for the money...the D800 is probably still going to be the camera that delivers the most resolution, around its price point.  The future high MP Canon body is very likely going to be a 1 series.  So people with a 5D3 budget, will still be using a 5D3.  A future 5D4, probably will still be lower in pixel count than the D800.  The overall performance gap, however, will likely be closed.

But high pixel count and performance at "gain settings" under ISO 1000, is mainly only useful for landscape shooters on tripods, or who are shooting in mid day.  For those of us who shoot wildlife, or people in available light, Canon is still the clear choice.  As for fashion shooters using strobes, a high MP sensor is really more for bragging rights than for practical usage, in my opinion.  Who needs a 24x36 inch print of someone's eyelashes?  Magazines are roughly 8.5 x 11 inches...

neuroanatomist

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2013, 02:43:31 PM »
you do not understand

I understand that your posts on this forum make your viewpoint and biases very obvious.
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jrista

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2013, 03:38:14 PM »
I download the raw files, that lens from Nikon is not well. The  lens suffers from centering defects
DONT BELIVE EVERYTHING YOU READ JRISTA, and please be little more critical  to what you se,  AND PHOTOZONES MEASUREMENTS ARE FROM A  HEALTHY LENS

LOL. I'll be however I please, thank you. And as it stands, I am quite critical...if you haven't learned it by now, you should know I like things to be backed up by concrete fact whenever possible...especially from you.

You are telling me not to believe everything I read, and yet, you expect me to simply believe that YOU, of all people, "looked at the raw files and can tell, just from that, that the lens is suffering from centering defects"??? Seriously? How about standing by your own demands, and provide some concrete evidence, procedures, test software, etc. that actually explains HOW you know the lens had centering defects?

I plain and simply don't believe you CAN determine that from an image. So sorry, but if you want me to believe what I read from you, your going to have to do better than simply make a random claim.

jrista

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2013, 03:40:22 PM »
with proper USM i don't se any problem with that d800 has a lot more resolution than the canon combo

You are looking at the wrong area of the photo. You must not have read the posts related (here and on DPR) to those photos. The point being made is that the CORNERS of the D800, despite its higher spatial resolution than the 5D III, suffer from more distortion. The point being made was that even a higher resolution sensor is not quite enough to compensate for the kind of warping and stretching you get from poorly handled corner performance in a lens.

dgatwood

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2013, 03:59:55 PM »
Klaus at Photozone and I have shown several times that  if one copy does not appear as it should we took another copy to test,  I tested 4 Canon 24-70 before I got one good example  and showed the test results  and so  did also Klaus  .
All brands have problems with the uniformity and quality, also Nikon

If I were reviewing a lens and I got a crap copy, I'd review the crap copy and give it a harsh negative review.  The fact of the matter is that a glowing of a review where three out of four copies are junk does not accurately reflect what a person is going to get when they buy one, statistically speaking.  If these manufacturers want to get good reviews, they should have better quality control.  This isn't rocket science.  They could trivially attach every lens to a test rig, measure it, and verify that it is within spec like pretty much every other professional hardware manufacturer does.  The fact that they obviously do not do this speaks volumes about their product quality, and I firmly believe that the reviews should reflect that lack of concern.

jrista

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2013, 06:45:01 PM »
Klaus at Photozone and I have shown several times that  if one copy does not appear as it should we took another copy to test,  I tested 4 Canon 24-70 before I got one good example  and showed the test results  and so  did also Klaus  .
All brands have problems with the uniformity and quality, also Nikon

If I were reviewing a lens and I got a crap copy, I'd review the crap copy and give it a harsh negative review.  The fact of the matter is that a glowing of a review where three out of four copies are junk does not accurately reflect what a person is going to get when they buy one, statistically speaking.  If these manufacturers want to get good reviews, they should have better quality control.  This isn't rocket science.  They could trivially attach every lens to a test rig, measure it, and verify that it is within spec like pretty much every other professional hardware manufacturer does.  The fact that they obviously do not do this speaks volumes about their product quality, and I firmly believe that the reviews should reflect that lack of concern.

+1000!

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2013, 06:45:01 PM »

Mark D5 TEAM II

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #88 on: August 02, 2013, 12:15:36 AM »
Apparently some people are so busy pixel-peeping at 800% they forgot to read this notice highlighted in blue at the top of PZ's reviews:

Quote
Please note that the tests results are not comparable across the different systems. This does also apply for the new EOS tests based on the EOS 50D because of differences in the sensor system (e.g. AA-filter) as well as different RAW-converters.



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caruser

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #89 on: August 02, 2013, 03:15:33 AM »
Klaus at Photozone and I have shown several times that  if one copy does not appear as it should we took another copy to test,  I tested 4 Canon 24-70 before I got one good example  and showed the test results  and so  did also Klaus  .
All brands have problems with the uniformity and quality, also Nikon
If I were reviewing a lens and I got a crap copy, I'd review the crap copy and give it a harsh negative review.  The fact of the matter is that a glowing of a review where three out of four copies are junk does not accurately reflect what a person is going to get when they buy one, statistically speaking.  If these manufacturers want to get good reviews, they should have better quality control.  This isn't rocket science.  They could trivially attach every lens to a test rig, measure it, and verify that it is within spec like pretty much every other professional hardware manufacturer does.  The fact that they obviously do not do this speaks volumes about their product quality, and I firmly believe that the reviews should reflect that lack of concern.
+1000!
This could be taken a step further by purchasing multiple copies, like now, but posting the review for the WORST out of the bunch! Or start reviewing one copy, and then see what the worst one that a reader of your's got is!

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Re: An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
« Reply #89 on: August 02, 2013, 03:15:33 AM »