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Author Topic: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained  (Read 12071 times)

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'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« on: July 26, 2013, 10:14:14 AM »

Dual Pixel CMOS AF will change —High Image Quality” the basic assumptions about Digital SLRs

Canon USA has posted a PDF explaining the “revolutionary” Dual Pixel AF technology.


Introduction

This is not just a new technology. It is a revolution that will significantly expand the possibilities of DSLR cameras.



  • “The correct way to take photos is by looking through an optical viewfinder and shooting”

  • “Live View is a subsidiary function, inferior to the optical viewfinder”

  • “The DSLR’s movie mode is so difficult, as to be usable only by a professional”


Dual Pixel CMOS AF is a new technology that will cast aside these assumptions. The entire surface of the sensor is lined with pixels composed of two photodiodes each, and the image plane phase-difference detection AF focuses using the phase-difference of the two parallax images.


Read The Entire Article | Canon EOS 70D at B&H Photo


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'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« on: July 26, 2013, 10:14:14 AM »

Lee Jay

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2013, 10:40:18 AM »
The supported lens box has some very disconcerting information.  I'm wondering about 3rd party lenses that should work but will be in contrast-detect just because they aren't "supported".  Also, what's the point of having this function work at f/11 if it doesn't work with teleconverters?  Who has a "supported" bare f/11 lens?

bsbeamer

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2013, 11:08:45 AM »
I think this is just the start of a "new wave" of better quality STM lenses on the way to work with this AF technology... not sure if they'll get to the "L" series with STM, especially at the price point of the capable camera bodies, but just below that would be welcomed by many and there would be a market for them, if this AF works as promised.  (Though the C100 can work with STM lenses apparently, maybe the C300 as well?)

Interesting developments for sure...


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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2013, 11:16:48 AM »
I think this is just the start of a "new wave" of better quality STM lenses on the way to work with this AF technology... not sure if they'll get to the "L" series with STM, especially at the price point of the capable camera bodies, but just below that would be welcomed by many and there would be a market for them, if this AF works as promised.  (Though the C100 can work with STM lenses apparently, maybe the C300 as well?)

Interesting developments for sure...

The STM lenses were made to smooth out AF for Video.  With the Dual Pixel system, that is no longer a problem to be solved, so STM lenses will continue to be built because they are cheaper to make.

jonjt

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2013, 11:23:06 AM »
I'd like to see how Sigma and Tokina are going to deal with this.  My 11-16 and my 85/1.4 are both lenses and, I'd hate for them to be made unusuable.

dstppy

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2013, 11:25:02 AM »
My takeaway from this is that they're eventually going to produce a mirrorless that has a 'viewfinder' that eventually will work as well as an optical viewfinder . . .

Meh for now.

Cool for later.  Progress is progress :)
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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2013, 11:31:55 AM »
If the entire sensor is capable of phase detect, why are there still discrete autofocus points? What keeps them from using a touch screen to say "focus here"?
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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2013, 11:31:55 AM »

bchernicoff

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2013, 11:40:18 AM »
If the entire sensor is capable of phase detect, why are there still discrete autofocus points? What keeps them from using a touch screen to say "focus here"?

I believe they demoed exactly that in some of the 70D promo videos.
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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2013, 12:33:50 PM »
Thanks for explaining why this dual pixel af doesn't provide any significant step forward to what I do...

* I like to shoot through an (o)vf, and with heavier lenses everything else is non-practical except ...
* When on mono-/tripod in lv I use mf with Magic Lantern's focus peaking (and raw zebras/histogram)
* I don't do video, for my 2ct they could release a non-movie 6d w/ a lower price

Timothy_Bruce

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2013, 12:39:32 PM »
Thinking about every pixel being used für phase-detection-AF, so also there will be the Bayer filter in front of them making the AF system able to recognize the color of the AF-subject.
So this could lead to a really good hold on to AF-Servo-targets when there is a Color Difference towards the background or obstacles.
 
Maybe the next 1D will have an AF sensor of this type... think of an viewfinder-AF with 10.000.000 AF-Points and an intelligent binding system with a dot-matrix lcd overlay...   

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2013, 12:46:50 PM »
Thanks for explaining why this dual pixel af doesn't provide any significant step forward to what I do...

* I like to shoot through an (o)vf, and with heavier lenses everything else is non-practical except ...
* When on mono-/tripod in lv I use mf with Magic Lantern's focus peaking (and raw zebras/histogram)
* I don't do video, for my 2ct they could release a non-movie 6d w/ a lower price

Not going to happen. At this point it's an expected feature checkbox for new DSLRs to have a movie mode. Frankly, it wouldn't make economic sense for them to. They'd need 2 separate tooling lines for the body with the switch to movie mode, and one without. Plus they'd need to maintain 2 separate firmwares, one with movie support and one without.
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meli

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2013, 12:53:52 PM »
The supported lens box has some very disconcerting information.  I'm wondering about 3rd party lenses that should work but will be in contrast-detect just because they aren't "supported".  Also, what's the point of having this function work at f/11 if it doesn't work with teleconverters?  Who has a "supported" bare f/11 lens?

Perhaps 3rd party lenses wont have a problem after all, here is a preview of a 70d with a 18-35 sigma performing splendidly apparently:

Canon 70D Review + Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 lens preview

viggen61

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2013, 01:20:34 PM »
If the entire sensor is capable of phase detect, why are there still discrete autofocus points? What keeps them from using a touch screen to say "focus here"?
The phase detect on the sensor only works with the mirror up, and is seamless across the image. With the mirror down, using the viewfinder, you're still using the "old" phase detect system, which still requires the discrete points.
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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2013, 01:20:34 PM »

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2013, 02:01:40 PM »
I think the Dual Pixel AF is indeed revolutionary, and posted up my opinions on this a couple of weeks ago when the 70D was launched.

On a side note, it's nice to see Canon back at innovating new technology and pushing the industry forward.  I was a little worried after the 5D3-vs.-d800 forum angst last year, but clearly Canon is responding.  Next up... the 75mp body everyone's itching to see!

Thanks, Canon, for getting back on track!

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2013, 02:31:49 PM »
The supported lens box has some very disconcerting information.  I'm wondering about 3rd party lenses that should work but will be in contrast-detect just because they aren't "supported".  Also, what's the point of having this function work at f/11 if it doesn't work with teleconverters?  Who has a "supported" bare f/11 lens?

I'm concerned about the 100mm f/2.8 Macro (non-IS), which I own. This is a currently sold lens, and the document said that dual pixel would support all current lenses, but the macro is on the list of lenses that are not fully supported. This seems like a contradiction. This is the only high quality current lens that I noticed on the list that is not fully supported.

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Re: 'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2013, 02:31:49 PM »