September 16, 2014, 01:31:21 AM

Author Topic: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]  (Read 8707 times)

grahamclarkphoto

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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2014, 03:10:49 AM »
Quote
I suppose WiFi and GPS are features that will have different value to every camera owner.  I find the WiFi feature to be somewhat useful for remote control via the EOS Utility and occasionally to transfer jpeg's to a tablet, phone or laptop.  The EOS utility is limited, but functional.

I have never used GPS and don't anticipate ever using it.  So, for me its a useless feature.

Exactly! Different for everyone : )

The GPS is definitely an advantage for photographers who want location-based information for all images plus automatic timezone set for images when traveling. But for photographers who don't travel or want these unique features then it's mostly irrelevant.

Graham
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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2014, 03:10:49 AM »

grahamclarkphoto

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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2014, 03:15:52 AM »
I would also like to thank Graham for the wonderful pictures and very useful/informative real-world review.

I'm new to this forum (this is my first post  :D) and the point I would like to raise, begins like this...

Against a lot of opinions I have been reading in various sites (including CanonRumors), I went ahead and replaced my wonderful 5d mk2 with a Canon 6d. Being just an enthusiast not earning any money from photography, I took advantage of the US Christmas offers together with the favorable Euro/Dollar exchange rate in order to perform this swap at basically no cost. I also bought the 40mm pancake lens and I'm having a hard time taking it off the mount... It is sharp, silent and it will focus just about anywhere you point the camera to.

At some point I would like to post my opinions about the 5d mk2 -> 6d transition, but right now I have very few clicks with the 6d. So I can only write about the things I'm sure of:
  • I have no regrets
  • Easier to carry around due to the smaller size/weight
  • The (silent) shutter sound is ... pardon me ... orgasmic LOL. I just want to click, click and click some more! Silent is even better and that is my default setting
  • Auto-ISO allows you to take snaps without much thinking
  • High-ISO is worlds apart from the 5d, especially after ISO-3200. People shots taken indoors, with dim tungsten light at ISO 12800 look great. Just like that.
  • A bit more responsive in general
  • AF gives you more confidence, especially the center point

After I realized that ISO-12800 is not bad for me, I decided to try out that famous center point. -3EV and all. I don't really know how dark that is supposed to be. I picked the easiest setup I could find: my kitchen in near darkness and aiming at one of those largish wooden cooking spoons (i.e. little contrast if any). Equipped with the 40mm, the 6d nailed focus very fast indeed. 85mm f/1.8 no problem as well. Same story with the 50mm f/1.4 (this one surprised me actually). I would have slept better that night if I had not tried my 24-105 f/4L IS and 70-200 f/4L IS... They could not focus at all.
These dark pictures, were of course, crap. This made me think what meaningful picture would require the -3EV offered by the 6d. I don't know, so I would like to ask you this question. Can anybody submit a nice picture that did require this -3EV capability?

Finally, if I may deviate slightly from the original post, could anyone suggest a compact case just for the 6d and the 40mm pancake? The smallest case I have is a ThinkTank Digital Holster 20 v2.0 and it is just too large for this particular combination...

George.

Hey George,

In my opinion the 5D2 and the 6D are very similar:

- essentially same image quality/sensor
- essentially same AF system

The advantages that I see (owning all 5D-cameras) is small size and GPS.

For the case, I'd recommend getting optech wraps to maintain the smallest and lightest setup: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/80976-REG/OP_TECH_USA_6811362_19_Soft_Wrap_Steel.html/BI/19568/KBID/11943/kw/OPSW19G/DFF/d10-v2-t1-xOPSW19G

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gsko

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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2014, 12:01:40 PM »

Hey George,

In my opinion the 5D2 and the 6D are very similar:

- essentially same image quality/sensor
- essentially same AF system

The advantages that I see (owning all 5D-cameras) is small size and GPS.

For the case, I'd recommend getting optech wraps to maintain the smallest and lightest setup: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/80976-REG/OP_TECH_USA_6811362_19_Soft_Wrap_Steel.html/BI/19568/KBID/11943/kw/OPSW19G/DFF/d10-v2-t1-xOPSW19G

I appreciate your response Graham. I will defintely agree with you that for many real-life purposes image quality and AF performance of these cameras are very similar indeed.

Wouldn't you agree, though, that in high-ISO situations the 6d offers superior performance in terms of color rendition (saturation holds up very well) and noise (color noise, cleaner shadows & banding) in the RAW files? And that the performance gap is even greater for the corresponding out-of-camera JPGs?

My experience is that with the 6d you can select the desired (and most appropriate) depth of field and/or exposure time that will require a high ISO setting but without the image degradation penalty of the 5d mk2.

On the one hand, I hope I find you in agreement, otherwise I simply don't get it  :-[
On the other hand, if you don't agree I have a lot to learn about image interpretation and processing. Learning new stuff is always good  ;)

Last but not least, thanks for suggesting the camera wrap. I will take a closer look.

George.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 12:09:54 PM by gsko »
Canon 6d, 40mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, 24-105mm f/4L IS, 70-200mm f/4L IS, Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX DG ASP HSM

Woody

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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2014, 10:00:07 PM »
There's several highlight blow outs in some of the sky images and why is the sky darker than the land / foreground...looks like to strong grad filters too me. Nice colours, but some of the scenes look like there's false colours added from the ND grads colour casts. The scenes are nice and dramatic, but many of these would fail RPS judging (or degree level photography portfolio judging) due to the exposure issues I've just mentioned. There's bad flare in one shot and another has split boulders in the fore ground, it's important not to split any in half at the edges of the frame. These are very nice and colourfull images, i'm sure they sell well to punters. Especially to the framed print crowds, but really wouldn't impress anyone with a qualification in photography.

I almost forgot to ask, what's your website URL?
Graham

GMC has some wonderful images here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=4624.msg355920#msg355920

Actually, I understand what GMC is saying. Your ND and grad filters are causing color shifts. You may want to consider changing to more expensive filters, if you so desire. ;D Now, having said that, photography is an art... so there is no rule why color shifts are bad... that is why some deliberately choose to use the 'wrong' white balance and others are able to produce colored IR images (just saw a whole article devoted to that in Landscape Photographer)...

grahamclarkphoto

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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2014, 10:20:30 PM »

Hey George,

In my opinion the 5D2 and the 6D are very similar:

- essentially same image quality/sensor
- essentially same AF system

The advantages that I see (owning all 5D-cameras) is small size and GPS.

For the case, I'd recommend getting optech wraps to maintain the smallest and lightest setup: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/80976-REG/OP_TECH_USA_6811362_19_Soft_Wrap_Steel.html/BI/19568/KBID/11943/kw/OPSW19G/DFF/d10-v2-t1-xOPSW19G

I appreciate your response Graham. I will defintely agree with you that for many real-life purposes image quality and AF performance of these cameras are very similar indeed.

Wouldn't you agree, though, that in high-ISO situations the 6d offers superior performance in terms of color rendition (saturation holds up very well) and noise (color noise, cleaner shadows & banding) in the RAW files? And that the performance gap is even greater for the corresponding out-of-camera JPGs?

My experience is that with the 6d you can select the desired (and most appropriate) depth of field and/or exposure time that will require a high ISO setting but without the image degradation penalty of the 5d mk2.

On the one hand, I hope I find you in agreement, otherwise I simply don't get it  :-[
On the other hand, if you don't agree I have a lot to learn about image interpretation and processing. Learning new stuff is always good  ;)

Last but not least, thanks for suggesting the camera wrap. I will take a closer look.

George.

Sure, the DIGIC 5+ expands the high ISOs, but all the ISOs below 6400 are the same, and personally I never shoot 200 or above for anything serious (80% on ISO 50, 20% ISO 100). I do think that high ISOs come into play for live view manual focus, so I do find the higher ISOs useful even though I'm never shooting on them.

The DIGIC 5+ in-camera profiles that attempt to reduce axial and lateral CA only apply to JPEGs, but in my tests I find that utterly useless and in fact no visible change. Could be that it's improved in the future in the form of firmware updates, but until then it's marketing.

In my experience printing large format prints I'm seeing the same quality between my original 5D, 5D2, 5D3, 6D and 800e. I'm getting the a7R soon, and even with the large MP count I don't think the quality will be that much higher than my 350D 8.2MP sensor from 7 years ago.

Lots of people like to argue on these points of quality, but in my tests with professional printers at 40x60 we can't tell the difference and we're incredibly discerning.

Graham
"Why limit yourself to what your eyes see when you have an opportunity to extend your vision?" - Edward Weston

grahamclarkphoto

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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2014, 10:23:44 PM »
There's several highlight blow outs in some of the sky images and why is the sky darker than the land / foreground...looks like to strong grad filters too me. Nice colours, but some of the scenes look like there's false colours added from the ND grads colour casts. The scenes are nice and dramatic, but many of these would fail RPS judging (or degree level photography portfolio judging) due to the exposure issues I've just mentioned. There's bad flare in one shot and another has split boulders in the fore ground, it's important not to split any in half at the edges of the frame. These are very nice and colourfull images, i'm sure they sell well to punters. Especially to the framed print crowds, but really wouldn't impress anyone with a qualification in photography.

I almost forgot to ask, what's your website URL?
Graham

GMC has some wonderful images here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=4624.msg355920#msg355920

Actually, I understand what GMC is saying. Your ND and grad filters are causing color shifts. You may want to consider changing to more expensive filters, if you so desire. ;D Now, having said that, photography is an art... so there is no rule why color shifts are bad... that is why some deliberately choose to use the 'wrong' white balance and others are able to produce colored IR images (just saw a whole article devoted to that in Landscape Photographer)...

I saw his work, and I think we're operating on different levels so conversations such as these get pretty subjective pretty darn fast :)

I'm a complete beginner, still learning the fundamentals here. I'm still 10 years out until I'm even a decent photographer, let alone intermediate.

As for color shifts, send me a private message with the images you see that on, I'd be curious to see what you're referring to! The filters I own are the most color neutral I could find. By the way, do you know what filters I'm using? :)

Graham
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 10:32:12 PM by grahamclarkphoto »
"Why limit yourself to what your eyes see when you have an opportunity to extend your vision?" - Edward Weston

grahamclarkphoto

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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2014, 10:31:15 PM »
Can anybody submit a nice picture that did require this -3EV capability?


In response to this:

The autofocus determines the correct focus through contrast of edges, and when there's not enough light transmitted through the lens (TTL) the autofocus can't lock. Most cameras have the ability to autofocus above 0EV up to around +20EV, so in very bright conditions.

But focusing in the other direction determines at which point the camera fails to obtain a lock with a negative EV, or in lower light.

Most cameras are around 0EV (a7R), -1EV (D600), and -2EV (5D3 & D800E). The lower the EV the more accurate the camera can obtain a lock in low light. Low light could mean it's dark out, or you have an ND filter and it's daytime.

The 6Ds -3EV doesn't have much real world applicability in my opinion outside of using ND filters. For example right now I have a 6-stop ND filter stuck on the end of my GND adapter ring. So I'm constantly working with a dark viewfinder (until I get the thing unstuck or buy another adapter ring :| ) and the -3EV does have a noticeable effect - 1 stop greater for autofocus than my D800E or 5D3.

So it's an incredibly small thing that has a narrow benefit for some photographers, but it's not that big of a deal in and of itself (in my opinion).

Graham
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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2014, 10:31:15 PM »

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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2014, 09:41:37 AM »
Graham, do you know if that -3EV exists if for example I'm using my 24-105 f/4 lens, or is that only for faster lenses? The lack of cross type focus points have been so denigrated that I find myself sub-consciously only using the center point. (focus, lock, recompose). It will be funny to learn that for me, the center point isn't anymore accurate than the others.
Canon 6D, EF 70-200 f/4 L USM, EF 24-105 f/4 L IS USM, EF 35 f/2 IS USM, EF 50 f/1.8 II, EF 85 f/1.8 USM, 580EX

grahamclarkphoto

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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2014, 08:56:12 PM »
Graham, do you know if that -3EV exists if for example I'm using my 24-105 f/4 lens, or is that only for faster lenses? The lack of cross type focus points have been so denigrated that I find myself sub-consciously only using the center point. (focus, lock, recompose). It will be funny to learn that for me, the center point isn't anymore accurate than the others.

Hey Badger, sorry for the late response! Was in Yosemite shooting.

-3EV is for the camera body, irregardless of lens used.
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Re: Canon 6D Review: 1+ Year Hands-On [video review]
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2014, 08:56:12 PM »