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Author Topic: People that don't shoot in manual...  (Read 31375 times)

thepancakeman

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #75 on: July 30, 2013, 05:24:17 PM »
traveling at 30+ mph (50+ kph for you non-yanks)

A: Most non-yanks know the conversion, although I also tend to include both units to help the readers.

B: The correct would have been km/h, not kph. Just saying.

 ;)

A: Well, that's just because y'all are more globally intelligent.  I continue to remain baffled at the American (or is it "United Statesian" since everyone across 2 continents are "American") inability to grasp killermeters.

B: Well, yeah, if you want to be SI compliant, but kph was first (per the source of all truth, wiki):   ;D

    1889: "k. p. h."
    1895: "km:h"
    1898: "km/h"
    1899: "km./hr."
    1911: "K.P.H."
    1914 "km. hr."
    1915: "km/hour"
    1915: "km.-hr."
    1916: "km. per hour"
    1933: "KPH"

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #75 on: July 30, 2013, 05:24:17 PM »

LewisShermer

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #76 on: July 30, 2013, 05:25:02 PM »
...annoy me even more than those that don't shoot in raw.

What is it that folk find so difficult about choosing an appropriate shutter speed, the DOF they desire and then selecting the necessary ISO?

Obviously you then make off's where necessary...

I actually tried Tv & Av once, what a palava. settings all over the place, complete lack of control of anything. I have a friend that only shoots in fully auto (a Nikon user) and to look at his exif data is painful... he is a beginner and his composure nor his focussing is spot on yet but he refuses to learn even the simplest things about taking control of his own photography and not letting a daft camera take control.

The only non-manual thing I'll accept is the EX580's ETTL and that's only because it's a right bastard to operate.

so yeah, sell me the other options I've got to work with...

You seem to have taken my light hearted banter a little personally. If you point me in the direction of your online work I can also judge accordingly and give you appropriate feedback?

While I would never take a thread like this seriously, there really isn't anything in your first post that implies you are being light-hearted.  It's actually pretty antagonistic.  You basically insulted a lot of people (telling them they don't know what they are doing) and then demanded that they prove themselves to you.

Reminds me of an ongoing thread right now over on dpreview where the op wants to know why everyone doesn't use an 18-200 superzoom and insists that changing lenses is not a good idea.  His replies mostly state that he is talking about "for him" but the original post did not and he keeps defending his position by saying too many people use multiple lenses when they should stick to a superzoom.

Both threads are mildly entertaining, but pretty useless.  I don't expect either op really thought they were useful (at least I hope not).

As far as cars go, I'll stick to my automatic.  I'm just not that into driving - the car just gets me from one place to the other.  Cameras are a lot more interesting.

It was that last line in my original post that I thought made light of it... I do shoot mostly (99.9999%) on manual (not manual focus) but my initial wish was that people would say that they shoot a particular way and what the advantages are to that. I know a lot of people like to keep their settings & post production secret but I thought we could discuss it anyway. It certainly appears that I have people's attention. Throw out a wild statement in your opening bit of bravado, then you have your audience...

What we have learnt thus far is that for moving objects in varying out door light Tv is favoured. When situations appear to be constant and bright, Manual is favoured. When certain conditions are required, where a certain Dof and shutter speed are desired then Auto-ISO is the favourite.

There are almost infinite ways of photographing the same scene, personally of late I've exposed for the subject/people of the scene and blown out most of the background as the 5Diii allows this due to the high ISO capabilities. This is something I never would have done with my 7D, maximum 1600iso and then a bounced or non-direct fill-in flash would light the subject. sometimes I'd even have a low ISO, a long-ish shutter speed and direct flash so I'd get points of light and only slight ambient that would cast a colour as if it were floating over a scene. (that technique is particularly good for bands in really small pub type venues).

So my intention was not to insult those incapable ( ;) ) of using manual, nor do I think it's something to show off about (it's something that is now very much second nature to me) I simply wanted to read little anecdotes of what folks prefer and why... hence the "sell me the other options I've got to work with..."

Also, I don't think in any one of my comments, I've insulted anyone... even the Americans :)
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bholliman

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #77 on: July 30, 2013, 05:29:50 PM »
Seems strange to be annoyed at how other people like to shoot.

Anyhow, I usually shoot Av but have been wanting to go M for consistency and control. What is your procedure? Use the built in meter, by eye, or other?

+1

I shoot AV 70% of the time, M maybe 25% and TV 5%.  When shooting AV I manually set ISO and am continually watching my shutter speed to make sure it's in the range I want it to be.  I use M in low or challenging light conditions and always for flash.

I learned photography on fully manual film cameras, so understand very well how to shoot in M.  But AV and TV give me nearly the same level of control and are faster and easier to use, so why not? 

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KyleSTL

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #78 on: July 30, 2013, 05:42:32 PM »
I realize there are car afficionados out there who love their stick shift, but why not take advantage of the dual clutch auto and all the extra speed it gives you :).

Oh man..you had the analogy going VERY well, until the end there with the car attempt....<P>
:)

For a sports car, especially a high end sports car, you want a manual transmission...if not for resale value, but for performance.

You're generally gonna get the better times and stats with manual over automatic, if you know how to drive the manual...

I've never owned a car with auto transmission, and only one car have I ever owned had more than 2 seats (that one was an '86 911 Turbo, but those rear seats aren't really useable for anything but 2x bags of groceries).....

LOL...anyway, good thoughts on the camera, but ugh...a sports car with auto transmission? A waste of good steel....

:)

OMGzzzz!!1!!one!1!!!!!! I'd never even drive an automatic! I am British though, and those things are quite rare here. Why would you let the car decide what gear you need to be in?

I'm possibly the only person that will survive when the robots take over, it appears.
While I agree manuals are desirably for multiple reasons I have to correct an agregious error in cayenne's comment.  He is comparing manual to the classic automatic transmission and he is absolutely correct that a synchromesh manual is faster than a 'normal' automatic, however, the original comment was comparing a manual transmission to a dual-clutch auto (similar to transmissions found in almost all forms of high-performance racing nowadays).  Even the 'consumer grade' DCATs are faster than their manual contemporaries.  Look up almost any modern performance car and the 0-60 times, 1/4 mile times, etc will be better with the DCATs, examples:

Porsche 911 Carerra S -
Manual - 4.3 sec (0-60 mph)
PDK - 4.1 sec (0-60 mph)

Ferrari F430 (2005) -
Manual - 21.65 sec (1000 meters)
'F1' Gearbox - 21.60 sec (1000 meters)

Sorry, it's a little hard to come up with cars nowadays that offer both options for a single model, most companies are either going all DCAT (Ferrari, Lambo) or staying with only Manual for each model.  Now if we are comparing modern 'normal' automatics to non-synchromesh transmissions I would bet on the new autos, all other things being equal.
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JPAZ

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #79 on: July 30, 2013, 05:43:57 PM »


    1889: "k. p. h."
    1895: "km:h"
    1898: "km/h"
    1899: "km./hr."
    1911: "K.P.H."
    1914 "km. hr."
    1915: "km/hour"
    1915: "km.-hr."
    1916: "km. per hour"
    1933: "KPH"

And all along, I learned it was "klicks" and not KPH or anything like that.  So what about knots (for the nautically inclined)?

As someone who once used an Argus rangefinder with manual everything, I don't know what the big deal is.  Yes, with full manual one can achieve an infinite range of combinations to get a photo they want, but using Tv or Av or (heaven forbid) P / Auto has its place.  What matters is taking a good photograph and not so much how one achieves that output. 
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Janbo Makimbo

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #80 on: July 30, 2013, 05:49:01 PM »
You guys seriously need to get out more and meet people..... Preferably of the opposite sex!!

unfocused

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #81 on: July 30, 2013, 05:54:36 PM »
Well, I suspect that in the future Lew will be more likely to remember to engage brain before engaging keyboard. Unfortunate, because he is a good photographer.

To expand a bit on my earlier snippy comment. I spent about 30 years using "manual" on my F1. After decades of trying to manage five controls with two hands (shutter speed, f/stop, focus, film advance and shutter release)...I am sooo over manual.

The only thing I like better than the magical automation of DSLRs is the incredible magic of ETTL. You won't know what I mean unless you actually had the "joy" of trying to shoot with a potato masher strobe that took forever to recycle, had batteries that always died halfway through every assignment, used an electrical cord that broke if you looked at it and if everything did actually work, you had to guestimate how far away the subject was and then pray that you actually got an image (Oh, and don't forget to set the shutter speed dial to 1/60th or you are totally screwed and won't know it until you develop the film).

Yeah, the new technology can be overwhelming, but those good old days pretty much sucked.

Program, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Manual – they'll all get you to the same place.
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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #81 on: July 30, 2013, 05:54:36 PM »

LewisShermer

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2013, 06:22:31 PM »
just to clarify, that 'instagram look' is achieved by using curves to mimic the cross processing technique popularised in the 70's fashion world. It's quite a nice look I personally feel as images straight from a digital camera, especially the colours...

 :o

slightly tongue in cheek... I just like messing with stuff, just slightly though. There can be a happy medium when cross processing. I'm actually about half way through processing a wedding from saturday and the way I'm doing the raws is quite weird. I'm almost maxing out the contrast, bringing the highlights down to -100, using the exposure to control the white clipping and the shadows for overall exposure. I have to take a fair bit of saturation out though but compensating for that by upping the vibrance. It kinda looks cross processed already without uploading them to my phone, sending them through instagram and then to my portfolio... workflow refined :)
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LewisShermer

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #83 on: July 30, 2013, 06:23:59 PM »
You guys seriously need to get out more and meet people..... Preferably of the opposite sex!!

I met a girl of the opposite sex once. It all ends in tears. Every time. I'm happy sticking with something that I have slight control over for the mean time.
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Dukinald

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #84 on: July 30, 2013, 06:53:32 PM »
   and won't know it until you develop the film).

Program, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Manual – they'll all get you to the same place.

+1

Yeah P gets me to where I want to be most of the time  ::) I can just turn the shuttle wheel to program shift in case I need a diff shutter speed or aperture value.

I do have a full understanding of how the different parameters (av tv iso ec etc) affect the image , I just use what is most convenient for the situation and what I'm trying to achieve.
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pj1974

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2013, 08:00:54 PM »
Wow...what a read (I've skim read this thread).  I'll give the OP the benefit of the doubt - and as he's stated in latter posts - that he was not intending to undermine other (good) photographers. It highlights the need to be very careful with wording (I do think his wording could have been softer and more tactfully and definitely more humbly phrased).

I began photography a few decades ago... and for me photography is a passion, hobby, artistic release, enjoyment of the technical, and opportunity to share photos with friends - both locally and around the world. I've lived in a number of countries, speak 5 languages, worked in various jobs including: leading charity projects in developing countries to business / marketing consulting to Christian mission work to advertising and market & social research and now am in management in federal Government - here in Australia. I've also volunteered in numerous situations for decades.

Not much 'phases' me. I've seen lots in my life - and have read, communicated and been part of communities that have shaped my life and world view. At times my directness is a bit too much for some people, so I try to learn how to speak, live and act in a way that is non offensive, while also realising that we can't please everyone. I aim to be honest with friends true to myself / my values, and seek God's grace and help with that - I know that there will be room to improve till the day I die.    ;)

I've looked over the OPs photos on his website, some of them I think exposure and dof are well controlled, but in others there can be improvements. He's doing ok for a young photographer, and still has areas to learn, develop and improve skills in. I say this without judging the post processing options he has chosen.

When it comes to assisting others with photography and/or sharing ideas, I do that regularly: many people join me for 'photo outing days', and on request I critique a lot of friends' photos. There are many people who also inspire me with their photography, techniques, artistic ability and skills.  Some photos, while technically 'excellent' don't 'speak' to me. I dislike 'non-realistic' colours, effects, frames, etc.  Just give me what I see, but capture it in a way that tells the story clearly, with strong powerful accurate images (actually very hard to do). Readers might be able to deduct that I'm not in to fashion / studio photography, for example.   ;D

As to my own shooting style, I prefer Av about 85% to 90% of the time. In certain situations (eg some sports, or moving subjects) I use Tv.  I also use M - eg for some flash situations, panoramas, night exposures, etc.  I've learned how to use Av (along with exposure compensation) to be a very powerful as extremely quick to use solution - being able to control DOF and shutter speed.  At times I use Auto ISO (probably about 30%), but most times I set ISO manually.

I hope my input here was helpful, folks.  Enjoy your photography all!  8)

Regards

Paul  :)
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michael6liu

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2013, 08:37:32 PM »
I still love shooting in AV even if it annoys you lol. To me, that is the most efficient way.

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rpt

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2013, 08:59:35 PM »



I realize there are car afficionados out there who love their stick shift, but why not take advantage of the dual clutch auto and all the extra speed it gives you :).

Oh man..you had the analogy going VERY well, until the end there with the car attempt....<P>
:)

For a sports car, especially a high end sports car, you want a manual transmission...if not for resale value, but for performance.

You're generally gonna get the better times and stats with manual over automatic, if you know how to drive the manual...

I've never owned a car with auto transmission, and only one car have I ever owned had more than 2 seats (that one was an '86 911 Turbo, but those rear seats aren't really useable for anything but 2x bags of groceries).....

LOL...anyway, good thoughts on the camera, but ugh...a sports car with auto transmission? A waste of good steel....

:)

OMGzzzz!!1!!one!1!!!!!! I'd never even drive an automatic! I am British though, and those things are quite rare here. Why would you let the car decide what gear you need to be in?

I'm possibly the only person that will survive when the robots take over, it appears.
+1
Driving an automatic is like shooting in the green rectangle mode.

Is that so? I shoot manual mostly and not averse to shooting in the AV/TV mode. However, I do drive automatic cars but thats probably because I don't want to make a gazillion gear shifts while driving on the streets in New Delhi.
:)
Well, if driving an automatic is ok, and in the future owning and using a driverless car is ok, why trash the green rectangle or the P mode...

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2013, 08:59:35 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #88 on: July 30, 2013, 09:05:00 PM »
Well, if driving an automatic is ok, and in the future owning and using a driverless car is ok, why trash the green rectangle or the P mode...

Because while I, and occasionally others, derive enjoyment from my creative expression in my photographic style, local police and state troopers would be much less appreciative of creative expression in my driving style.  8)
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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #89 on: July 30, 2013, 09:10:18 PM »
Well, if driving an automatic is ok, and in the future owning and using a driverless car is ok, why trash the green rectangle or the P mode...

Because while I, and occasionally others, derive enjoyment from my creative expression in my photographic style, local police and state troopers would be much less appreciative of creative expression in my driving style.  8)
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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #89 on: July 30, 2013, 09:10:18 PM »