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Author Topic: People that don't shoot in manual...  (Read 26647 times)

BozillaNZ

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #90 on: July 30, 2013, 09:54:53 PM »
...annoy me even more than those that don't shoot in raw.



Here you go: Who cares what do you think? I shoot Av because I like it.

Also only a wimp uses ETTL flash, real man uses M-A-N-U-A-L!
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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #90 on: July 30, 2013, 09:54:53 PM »

Marsu42

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #91 on: July 30, 2013, 10:29:49 PM »
+1 for flash in M mode. AV-TV is dead weight when you need to control ambient/flash exposure.

It is, could you elaborate? You control ambient via ec, imho Av is very handy when lighting changes on every other shot, esp. if you're able to select a min. shutter speed (newer cameras or Magic Lantern).

but I will say that Av is much more effective on recent bodies where you can specify a minimum shutter speed

Did I mention Magic Lantern does this for the rest of us ("ML Auto ISO"), providing the level of control like the newer and expensive cameras (min/max iso, min. shutter in av, min. aperture in tv, ec on m) ... but you wouldn't know about programming your camera, would you, mr. 1dx :-p ?

For all the M mode fanatics: The newest ml builds have a "autoexpo function", you can define your own aperture curve and then some, imho this a terrific feature: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7208.0

shutterwideshut

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #92 on: July 30, 2013, 10:53:52 PM »
Is that so? I shoot manual mostly and not averse to shooting in the AV/TV mode. However, I do drive automatic cars but thats probably because I don't want to make a gazillion gear shifts while driving on the streets in New Delhi.

+1. I shoot manual most of the time but may shoot in Av/Tv modes depending on the situation. Likewise, I would prefer manual transmission cars when driving in the countryside but would prefer to drive automatic cars when driving in downtown Manila!  :-\
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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2013, 10:58:55 PM »
Is that so? I shoot manual mostly and not averse to shooting in the AV/TV mode. However, I do drive automatic cars but thats probably because I don't want to make a gazillion gear shifts while driving on the streets in New Delhi.

+1. I shoot manual most of the time but may shoot in Av/Tv modes depending on the situation. Likewise, I would prefer manual transmission cars when driving in the countryside but would prefer to drive automatic cars when driving in downtown Manila!  :-\
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jdramirez

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2013, 10:59:45 PM »
As with all things it depends on the light.  When I'm out and about shooting, I tend to focus on the composition and making sure my subject is in focus.  Based on the type of light I'm using, I may decide to shoot in manual, indoors with consistent light controlling aperture (always), shutter speed and iso.  But if it is a partly cloudy day and clouds are passing over the sun and then just as quickly going passed, then I will go with aperture priority and rely on the camera to pay attention that the sun was just covered up by 1/2 a cloud.  Otherwise, I'll wind up with images that are either blown out and overexposed or underexposed.

Then there are times where I will just focus on shutter speed and aperture and I let the iso vary.  I've done that before.. .but I don't recall the situation.

For the longest time, I shot only in .jpg... and that wasn't because I was lazy, but because I didn't have software that recognized .cr2.  Then i got LR4 and I couldn't figure out how to import... Click and drag didn't work and neither did open with lr when I right clicked.  It was annoying... but after I did... then that is all I shoot in now. 

So as with most things, it is a learning curve.  I can proudly say, I have never shot in full auto.
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J.R.

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2013, 11:02:59 PM »



I realize there are car afficionados out there who love their stick shift, but why not take advantage of the dual clutch auto and all the extra speed it gives you :).

Oh man..you had the analogy going VERY well, until the end there with the car attempt....<P>
:)

For a sports car, especially a high end sports car, you want a manual transmission...if not for resale value, but for performance.

You're generally gonna get the better times and stats with manual over automatic, if you know how to drive the manual...

I've never owned a car with auto transmission, and only one car have I ever owned had more than 2 seats (that one was an '86 911 Turbo, but those rear seats aren't really useable for anything but 2x bags of groceries).....

LOL...anyway, good thoughts on the camera, but ugh...a sports car with auto transmission? A waste of good steel....

:)

OMGzzzz!!1!!one!1!!!!!! I'd never even drive an automatic! I am British though, and those things are quite rare here. Why would you let the car decide what gear you need to be in?

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+1
Driving an automatic is like shooting in the green rectangle mode.

Is that so? I shoot manual mostly and not averse to shooting in the AV/TV mode. However, I do drive automatic cars but thats probably because I don't want to make a gazillion gear shifts while driving on the streets in New Delhi.
:)
Well, if driving an automatic is ok, and in the future owning and using a driverless car is ok, why trash the green rectangle or the P mode...

That is why I got the 5D3 and not the 1DX so that I could shoot in the green rectangle mode ... oh wait, that is used when I need to hand over the camera to someone else to take my picture ...   ;) ;) ;)
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dgatwood

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #96 on: July 30, 2013, 11:12:25 PM »
I disagree with this.  I shoot live concerts on a professional level and always use manual.  Because of the ever so changing lights, the camera is constantly choosing the wrong shutter speed for me.  It's all about preference and what we are comfortable with.  I shoot manual everything and I nail my exposures 95% of the time with concert photography and wedding photography.

Agreed.  When I'm in that sort of environment where I'm sitting in one place for hours and have plenty of time to set settings, I'm likely to shoot full manual, sometimes tweaking aperture to achieve the desired DOF (if there's enough light to give me any real flexibility without smearing motion too badly).

I find shooting in full manual to be doubly important for things like stage plays where the lighting can be uneven and faces are frequently blown out with automatic exposure.

For day-to-day shooting, though, I'm usually rushed and have no more than a few seconds seconds to get a shot, so I stay in P mode because getting the shot at all is more important than tweaking the shot to maximize IQ or get a desired DOF.  Or maybe I'm just lazy.  Hard to say.  :)

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #96 on: July 30, 2013, 11:12:25 PM »

RLPhoto

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #97 on: July 30, 2013, 11:43:17 PM »
+1 for flash in M mode. AV-TV is dead weight when you need to control ambient/flash exposure.

It is, could you elaborate? You control ambient via ec, imho Av is very handy when lighting changes on every other shot, esp. if you're able to select a min. shutter speed (newer cameras or Magic Lantern).

but I will say that Av is much more effective on recent bodies where you can specify a minimum shutter speed

Did I mention Magic Lantern does this for the rest of us ("ML Auto ISO"), providing the level of control like the newer and expensive cameras (min/max iso, min. shutter in av, min. aperture in tv, ec on m) ... but you wouldn't know about programming your camera, would you, mr. 1dx :-p ?

For all the M mode fanatics: The newest ml builds have a "autoexpo function", you can define your own aperture curve and then some, imho this a terrific feature: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7208.0

ISO and aperture will affect both the ambient and flash exposure. The only control that affects just ambient is shutter speed. Lets take a indoor dance floor at a reception for example and your bouncing flash around.

So if your in Av... Your letting the camera decide how much ambient light will be in the exposure. A pain in the butt if light is constantly changing then you'll end up with a Coalminers cave and/or swirly lights at the cameras whim because it can be decieved by a bright spotlight or something else.

If you use Tv, then you control the ambient exposure but your DOF will be all over the place.

Now ETTL II does a good job at controlling how much flash to let out and not burning the subject white, but it has no control how much ambient light will be mixed in. You can try -1 expo comp and +1 flash comp to get something ok, but it still gets in the damn way if the meter catches a bight light source. I found it a frustrating experience to keep dialing in comp instead of just setting it once and use the flash ETTL.

Now outdoors overcast, you can get away with Av and flash because the light stays the same but you still give the ambient control to the camera....

Normalnorm

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #98 on: July 31, 2013, 12:28:33 AM »

Now ETTL II does a good job at controlling how much flash to let out and not burning the subject white, but it has no control how much ambient light will be mixed in. You can try -1 expo comp and +1 flash comp to get something ok, but it still gets in the damn way if the meter catches a bight light source. I found it a frustrating experience to keep dialing in comp instead of just setting it once and use the flash ETTL.

Now outdoors overcast, you can get away with Av and flash because the light stays the same but you still give the ambient control to the camera....

Precisely why I stay on manual in receptions and other event work. ETTL flash (or any TTL or auto flash scheme) CAN be good but so frequently leads the camera astray. In film days we say wild swings on exposure but as we were on neg film we were saved by the lab.
This gave us a false sense of security in the accuracy of ETTL. In digital we chimp and adjust thus defeating the speed advantage allegedly afforded by the technology.

Anybody remember the Nikkor 45 GN lens? Set the guide number of the flash and the lens would adjust aperture based on focus distance. Perfect exposure every time. Nice sharp pancake lens to boot.

AprilForever

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #99 on: July 31, 2013, 01:49:04 AM »
AV mode for when the light conditions are changing rapidly such as on a sunny day. You will miss many moments trying to adjust shutter speed in situations like these.

Manual mode gets used when in low light and the camera is selecting shutter speeds lower than the length of the lens. eg - Camera selecting 1/60th when shooting with a 135mm.

It doesn't really matter about how people shoot with as long as they get results. The proof is in the pudding.

Haven't yet. It takes about 0.5 second to change two stops of shutter speed. Takes maybe two-three seconds to adjust both shutter and ISO.

Twill take too much time is an excuse to many people to not learn how to read light and exposure demands. It's not hard, I learned about it reading Birds As Art (birdsasart-blog.com).
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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2013, 02:10:17 AM »
I shoot mainly M with DSLR and Av sometimes if I want to use flash as a fill-in flash or I'm too lazy or there isn't a wide DR to cover. 

For my G11, I almost always use Av because it's very hard to adjust the shutter + aperture with the limited dial/buttons.  It may change if I'm using G12 or better. 

I used Tv once with Auto-ISO when I shot sports. 

As for external flash, if off-cam, I always use manual mode.  If on-cam, I'd use TTL.  Why?  Because I use on-cam mainly as a fill-in flash, off-cam as primary sources of light. 

I shoot raw because I find it easier to adjust and process in the post though a slower to load.

These are my preferences.  Of course, it's up to your style on what you choose.

Lawliet

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #101 on: July 31, 2013, 03:52:40 AM »
Let me ask all you manual people:  Do you use the light meter on your camera, or do you eyeball the exposure?

You're missing the obvious choice: the light meter. Not that in the camera, but an incident one, preferable with a multispot option. That avoids the 18% assumption, and keeps the meter from having an uninformed opinion on proper exposure just because of some random AF points may find focus or not.
It also helps with finding proper settings for each flash, no need to guess what part of a histogram might correspond to a part of the picture and solve an  n-th degree equation system based on that...

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2013, 04:39:57 AM »
I may have to employ a little tact and choose my words more wisely when I start my new topic later about how I think folk that use zoom lenses over primes are just lazy and don't understand photography  ;)
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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2013, 04:39:57 AM »

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #103 on: July 31, 2013, 05:22:24 AM »
I know the OP was half joking, but I hope he uses a handheld incident light meter to set his manual exposure.  ;)

Seriously though, I think M, Av, and Tv all rate as manual control as the exposure compensation control on these cameras is so useable; you can them see from the data how much away from the suggested 'correct' exposure you were for a particular shot.

Despite the metering sophistication and immediate histograms of modern digital an incident light meter can still be useful for putting the exposure straight on the money without having to take multiple test shots and adjusting until you are satisfied with histogram.

So to the OP: mine's a Western V ( well three actually including the one that was my fathers from 1968 !)

What's yours ?  ;)

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #104 on: July 31, 2013, 05:39:18 AM »
Let me ask all you manual people:  Do you use the light meter on your camera, or do you eyeball the exposure?

You're missing the obvious choice: the light meter. Not that in the camera, but an incident one, preferable with a multispot option. That avoids the 18% assumption, and keeps the meter from having an uninformed opinion on proper exposure just because of some random AF points may find focus or not.
It also helps with finding proper settings for each flash, no need to guess what part of a histogram might correspond to a part of the picture and solve an  n-th degree equation system based on that...

Or you can use spot metering in-camera.  Spot meter on your main subject and adjust/average from there if needed.  Generally, I use Average Metering for low contrast scenes and spot metering for high contrast scenes.  Most of the time I prioritize the exposure of the main subject.

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Re: People that don't shoot in manual...
« Reply #104 on: July 31, 2013, 05:39:18 AM »