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Author Topic: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?  (Read 18345 times)

te4o

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 04:34:56 PM »
I can guess the moment someone makes an adapter from Sony Nex / Olympus Pen to EF with at least aperture control if not AF as well he will get rich... At least judging by the current market status. But markets often change who knows what Canon will come up with? But from the current Nex 5n discussions and samples, if true, I find IQ better than my 40D and probably 50, 60... Correct me please.
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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 04:34:56 PM »

macfly

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2011, 04:51:11 PM »
Canon had better wake up and move on this. I've been saying for months the iPhone 5 and new Androids with 8MP cameras are going to wipe out the P&S market, which means the real battle ground for market share will be in the EVIL systems. So far Sony looks to have redefinded the segment with the NEX-7, I honestly I think it could be a game changer, and make many SLRs obsolete.

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2011, 01:26:17 AM »
I've bought a NEX 5n, and the focus is fast enough for me. If you shoot sports YMMV, but why would anyone use a NEX 5n with a Sony 300 f2.8. BTW Sony has a new A-mount to E-mount adapter that has all the bells-and-whistle so that an A lens works as well on a NEX as it does on a Sony DSLR.

[bI] bought it for the video - 60i, 60p and 24p. It's small and light. It will make a great POV/crash cam, I'll use it like an APS-C GoPro.[/b]

The NEX 5n has an accessory EVF (2,359K), that is the same as the NEX 7.

hendrik-sg

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2011, 04:08:20 AM »
I have a 50d and got a Nex 7 in my hands some time ago. Yes the nex 7 is small and light as a PS but only with the smallest lenses. With a 18-55 it is already much bigger and with a 18-200 there is no advantage in size compared to a DSLR. For me (this is subjectiv) there is no advantage over a DSLR. If i need a small camera for my jeans pocket i would by a S95 which is impressiv in terms of image quality and low light ability at least for static subjects.

As long as everybody whines about dynamic range and low light ability the translucent mirrors from Sony dont sound very fascinating for me, because they loose light by default. This sounds like a improveemnt for the shareholders that they can sell cams without moving parts for the price of DSLRs. If the Sony 24MP APSC Cams can match the Canon and Nikon DSLRs in concerns of low light and dynamic range this would be a sign how far away from "state of the art" the canon and nikon sensors are. In this case we dont need a mirrorless system but a catch up in Sensor technology.

For the FF Cams it looks like if the big 3 (Canon, Nikon, Sony) have an arrangement to hold still, maybe a national alliance to recover from the earthquake. This is just speculation. In APSC Market there are to many players and the consumers want a new cam and more MP every year. For them this is more importand than real improvement which is more difficult to sell. As illustration, how many of the consumers check the sensor results on DSO before he buys a cam? Such improvement (for example 20d -> 5dii which have the same pixel size) is more difficult to sell.

For FF users there is hope, as soon as the APSCs have closed the gap to FF, then they could sell the old FF stuff only to very few "fanboys" or customers who really need shallower DOF. I dont know the effectiv froduction costs of FF cams, but i dont believe that they cost so much more (1500$) and i dont think they want to loose the money of these customers. Then at latest we will see progress in this area.

P.S please excuse my bad english

moreorless

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2011, 06:08:47 AM »
I have a 50d and got a Nex 7 in my hands some time ago. Yes the nex 7 is small and light as a PS but only with the smallest lenses. With a 18-55 it is already much bigger and with a 18-200 there is no advantage in size compared to a DSLR. For me (this is subjectiv) there is no advantage over a DSLR. If i need a small camera for my jeans pocket i would by a S95 which is impressiv in terms of image quality and low light ability at least for static subjects.

This to me seems like the major reason mirrorless hasnt had the dramatic impact many thought it would a few years ago, either you go with a smaller sensor and lose image quality or your left with massively outsized lenses like the NEX.

The real markets to me seem to be compact users wanting a bit of a step up in quality while retaining a pocketable camera and high end users wanting to cut down on the more extreme weight. Alot of the interest around the M9 seems to be based on size rather than users actually looking for manual focus and no zooms.  A Canon FF body the size of an xxxD with EF-S size lenses and a Fuji style hybrid viewfinder seems like it could be very sucessful to me.

Sunnystate

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2011, 08:10:06 AM »
Canon had better wake up and move on this. I've been saying for months the iPhone 5 and new Androids with 8MP cameras are going to wipe out the P&S market, which means the real battle ground for market share will be in the EVIL systems. So far Sony looks to have redefinded the segment with the NEX-7, I honestly I think it could be a game changer, and make many SLRs obsolete.

Agreed!

It is hard to blame Canon or Nikon for playing the waiting game, profits are just incredible and it will probably never happen again that an average aspiring amateur will pay voluntarily 3X the price of most advanced professional body just 10 years a go! (look at the culture right here on CR, to have the best and newest! Lets just hope no kids go hungry, or are loosing college funds because of this super expensive hobby of ours).

Adding that both Canon and Nikon have all the necessary base, expertise with lenses and all sort of body designs from the times of film point and shoot era, there are no doubts that waiting is intentional, and may be proven rather short sighted.
I love pro equipment to, and have spent my share for stuff, like brand new Hasselblad, two Toyo cameras,   twinlens Rolleiflex etc. that have been barely used and now collecting dust.
There are some changes needed, Sony is smart enough, and have nothing to loose to take advantage of this, let's hope Canon did not adopt the new prevalent business philosophy of making as much, as fast money for as long as possible, without thinking of future...

moreorless

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2011, 10:26:20 AM »
Nikon's system might not look the most exciting with the smaller sensor but I'm thinking it could proove to me well choosen. Large enough to potentially give noticeble benefits over bridge cameras but small enough to keep the lens size down to something pocketable.

If Canon put out something with a full crop sensor then personally I think they'd be better off focusing on a range of prime lenses.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 01:32:51 PM by moreorless »

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2011, 10:26:20 AM »

macfly

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2011, 12:14:58 PM »
I'd be more inclined to want perfect primes than a zoom, a high end Canon M9 competitor would be my first choice. Obviously I use the EOS system for work, but I've ordered a NEX-7 with a pancake lens as a replacement for the G12 which I hated so much I gave to a friends kid the other week. Felt kind of bad giving him such a terrible camera, but I figured he won't know the difference as it'll be his first proper camera.

DuLt

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2011, 01:05:39 PM »
What would be the implications of canon entering a mirrorless market with whole new lenses? Pretty much like when EF was introduced.

CanineCandidsByL

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2011, 01:32:42 PM »
What would be the implications of canon entering a mirrorless market with whole new lenses? Pretty much like when EF was introduced.

That would all depend how the camera is released. If this is a new generation of cameras that are between SLR & current point&shoots, then new lens would be great. I'd hope we see features similar to some other manufactures where the lens and body protect themselves by effectively have built in covers when lens are detached. If this could be implemented on current SLRs without breaking current lenses, I'd pay at least a $100 premium for such lenses. But for consumers who don't understand dirty sensor and likely to reach in and clean with their finger, its almost mandatory.

On the other hand, if such cameras were meant to replace existing SLRs, then changing lenses presents an "oportunity" for customers to abandon Canon for other vendors, which isn't desirable. For better or worse, compatibility of lenses within a vendor ocks us into that vendor or vendor family (3rd party lenses).

archfotos

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2011, 01:35:48 PM »
Let's just hope that when Canon does bring forth a small portable mirror-less camera they see where these (Oly, Pansic, Sony) fail.  Reading many threads it's obvious that this style of mirror-less camera is for the advanced user that wants the ultimate Henri Cartier Bresson camera/1080 60p recorder. So toss out all that auto jpg crap that bloats the menus, the RAW vs Jpg debate has been dead for some time.

None of these cameras to date were made for the truly active (weather resident, shock proof) lifestyle where they are going to be used, mounting them in harms way, bashing around in the back of a Toyota with twenty other smelly souls, using them in a waterproof housing.  How about connecting them to a pocket wizard for reliable remote firing?  How about making the Time-lapse photographer's dream with an electronic shutter system and ultra quite use. Can any of these cameras even accept shutter release remotes?   

Again I just hope when Canon does bring out their Mirror-less large chipped camera they bring one out with the old philosophy of the rugged built 1 series tough body  in a super compact size that is made for all the "different" applications the advance user can throw at it not just a bunch of cheesy pre-programed jpg styles that can only survive walking around the mall.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 01:38:51 PM by archfotos »

CanineCandidsByL

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2011, 02:25:58 PM »
RAW vs Jpg debate has been dead for some time.

Sorry, I hate doing this...

The debate should be dead, but the answer is "depends". There are people who need max fps & most continous high speed frames, for them jpg is the answer. Where this isn't the case, RAW quality is usually preferable.

I have had cases where I found my laptop dead (couldn't offload) or didn't have much space left and didn't have time to offload. I had to switch to jpg.

And, there are some good work scenerios where JPG can present a quick high-quality preview with some basic touchup for use on preview displays. But ultimately you want to work with RAW in final.

In the mis-spoken works of kodacrome users,
"Please don't take my jpg away"



c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2011, 04:18:58 PM »
Yes the nex 7 is small and light as a PS but only with the smallest lenses. With a 18-55 it is already much bigger and with a 18-200 there is no advantage in size compared to a DSLR

Have you ever seen a Leica with a 18-200??? Cameras like the Leica and NEX 7 work best with short primes.

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2011, 04:18:58 PM »

EYEONE

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2011, 04:34:08 PM »
Canon had better wake up and move on this. I've been saying for months the iPhone 5 and new Androids with 8MP cameras are going to wipe out the P&S market, which means the real battle ground for market share will be in the EVIL systems. So far Sony looks to have redefinded the segment with the NEX-7, I honestly I think it could be a game changer, and make many SLRs obsolete.

I have a Android with a 8mp sensor that takes the worst pictures possible. Just sayin'
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boh

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2011, 05:57:03 PM »
There are some great similarities between how Microsoft did not understand the tablet (iPad) and refused to get into the game (now they are rushing into it with 'Windows 8') and the waiting game that Canon seems to have adopted. It’s a different tool for different needs and also for different market segments. I have a Canon 5D II, which I love and is great for many things, but I just bought a Pen E-P3, which is a very different camera but actually superior in some ways. I want to use it for some travel and mostly for street photography. It is very quick and a lot less intrusive than a full blown SLR. People react differently to it and you can get shots which would have been hard with my Canon.  I bought it with the standard 14-42mm lens (x2 for you FF people), which is surprisingly sharp, but the line-up I am aiming at includes the Olympus 12/2, Leica-Pan 25/1.4, and Olympus 45/1.8. There are all serious lenses that can produce some awesome results. I can carry this in my jacked all day without even thinking about it.

Does it resolve as much as a FF? No, of course not! But getting the photo and the story that photo is meant to tell should always be more important than the alignment and absolute number of pixels that went into producing it.  The quality is ‘good enough’ for me and I am used to what my 5D and L lenses can produce.  But more than anything the format opens up new possibilities with similar control possibilities. I will have both systems.

The fact that the E-P3 looks stunning and is so well made just adds to the great feeling of picking it up. You can put that down on any café table in Rome and look the part of the scenery, which any street photographer will tell you is the most important!

My 2 c’s!

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Re: Canon Tempting Fate Being "Mirrored"?
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2011, 05:57:03 PM »