August 30, 2014, 06:48:06 AM

Author Topic: Returning M today...  (Read 8795 times)

Dylan777

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2013, 01:40:48 AM »
I have looked at and then used a Canon M. It's certainly got a lot going for it, in terms of size and decent price (especially the current M lenses). But for me (and I know a lot of others) - while it's smaller than any DSLR, the EOS M still isn't truly meeting my criteria of 'very portable'.

That's why I bought a Sony RX-100 (for my fiancee), and I'm impressed with the image quality. I tested it when I received it. In some situations Canon APS-C DSLR bodies have an edge in terms of overall image crispness (and definitely depth of field).  In other photos, the Sony RX-100 holds it's own.  (I can't compare Sony RX-100 to Canon M - as I don't own an M...)

My fiancee's camera doesn't have any dust issues, yet... hoping it stays that way!

Kudos to Sony - and also other companies, technology improvements are great.

Paul

In term of IQ, I can say that Sony is better due to new sensor tech. I can see that through my RX1 compared to my 5D III. That doesn't bother me.

Bothering me most is seeing 1" sensor(pocketable RX100 II) out perform the M with 22x15mm sensor. Not only better in low light(indoor), but everything else - faster AF, solid build etc...
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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2013, 01:40:48 AM »

Dianoda

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2013, 02:45:33 AM »
I had a somewhat different experience with the RX100 - the rather poor corners at wide angle eventually got to me, and the low ISO performance of the RX100 Mk 1 is definitely not up to the same standard as the APS-C sensor of the EOS M - the Sony RAWs are noisier at base ISO.  The bokeh from the RX100 lens wasn't great either, occasionally hazy is probably a good way to describe it.  So for the types of shots I like to take - low ISO/optimal aperture - the EOS M delivers better output when I have the time to set up the shot.  I find the 22mm f/2 to be a very decent lens, other than the CA in the corners (super easy to fix in photoshop), and the extreme corners aren't perfect (but they are pretty good and notably better than my RX100).

The RX100 definitely has the edge in size, AF speed - compared to DSLRs, the AF in the EOS M just feels brutal in certain situations, comparatively, the Sony can't track focus very well, but the one shot AF mode is speedier and more consistent compared to the M.  It's about even on ergonomics, the EOS M controls feel a bit more initiative to me (probably because I'm already very familiar with Canon DSLR control schemes), but the RX100 is is much easier to operate with one hand (after you've installed a Richard Franiec grip, that is - Richard's grip is fantastic).

I'd be willing to give the RX100 series another go once Sony updates the lens, but probably not before then.  I still like the camera, too - it's likely the best pocketable compact on the market and a great option for many (did I mention it does great 1080P60 video?) - just after an extended audition, I discovered that I'd rather have a better lens than what the Sony offers.

As for the M - it does some things well, but it's a few tweaks (needs a better location for AF-on mapping, better grip, and a second control dial would be nice - maybe something like the G12/G15 implementation) and a great AF system away from being a truly great camera.  The IQ is great, and although the native EF-M lens selection is limited, the options that we do have are very good.  When I'm using the M I can't help but think how much better it could be with what the dual-pixel AF tech promises to deliver - seriously, give me better AF and I'd be willing to pay big money for a body this small.
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pj1974

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2013, 02:53:03 AM »
I have looked at and then used a Canon M. It's certainly got a lot going for it, in terms of size and decent price (especially the current M lenses). But for me (and I know a lot of others) - while it's smaller than any DSLR, the EOS M still isn't truly meeting my criteria of 'very portable'.

That's why I bought a Sony RX-100 (for my fiancee), and I'm impressed with the image quality. I tested it when I received it. In some situations Canon APS-C DSLR bodies have an edge in terms of overall image crispness (and definitely depth of field).  In other photos, the Sony RX-100 holds it's own.  (I can't compare Sony RX-100 to Canon M - as I don't own an M...)

My fiancee's camera doesn't have any dust issues, yet... hoping it stays that way!

Kudos to Sony - and also other companies, technology improvements are great.

Paul

In term of IQ, I can say that Sony is better due to new sensor tech. I can see that through my RX1 compared to my 5D III. That doesn't bother me.

Bothering me most is seeing 1" sensor(pocketable RX100 II) out perform the M with 22x15mm sensor. Not only better in low light(indoor), but everything else - faster AF, solid build etc...

Hi, yes thanks Dylan - I agree.

The RX-1 is a FF sensor, and I've seen that sensor (and other sensors of Sony) really pushing the bar - and I trust this will benefit us the consumer at the end of the day. But I'm not a 'just think about DR / ISO / sensor' person. Rather I'm a 'whole package' person - and I hope (and expect) Canon to make improvements in its sensors at all sizes, ie 1) at APS-C - eg EOS M and Crop sensor DSLR and 2) in FF too. (Don't mention APS-H - that's 'dead'!) :p

The RX-100 and RX-100 II are both amazing cameras - particularly for being pocketable and having great IQ.  However the flexibility of having purpose designed lenses and an optical view finder (OVF) mean I prefer the DSLR as my 'general camera'.

I've taken photos with the RX-100 at my home, and also used my 7D - and found my 7D was somewhat (slightly) superior in crispness, and noise / colour characteristics.  It appears the EOS M sensor isn't far off the 7D's sensor - and certainly with the Sony sensor being smaller (1 inch) - that's impressive from Sony.

Maybe (and I'm expecting) the dual pixel LiveView AF technology that has debuted with the 70D will go into the EOS M (next model) - and that will significantly improve the EOS M's AF.

The EOS M didn't impress me regarding build... but then again, there were also aspects of the RX-100 I didn't like (eg the flash, and some of the menu implementation / handling).

I still love a DSLR!  But good job with the Song RX cameras....

Paul :)
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play

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2013, 02:46:02 PM »
I was talking about sensor dust on RX100 MK 1 & 2, not RX 1. Just google "RX100 sensor dust" and you will find many posts on boards such as dpreview and others. Some images there too. Also google image search shows some pics that users took to show dust artifacts showing up because of sensor dust in pics they took. I was very tempted to get MK 2 but things like sensor dust annoy me too much than they should. There is no sensor cleaning function in camera so you have to send it to Sony just for sensor cleaning, that is just sad for such an amazing camera. After warranty period is over, it can get very expensive to spend on sensor cleaning. If it had sensor cleaning function, I'd buy RX100 in a heartbeat.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 02:55:13 PM by play »

Dylan777

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2013, 07:59:25 PM »
I was talking about sensor dust on RX100 MK 1 & 2, not RX 1. Just google "RX100 sensor dust" and you will find many posts on boards such as dpreview and others. Some images there too. Also google image search shows some pics that users took to show dust artifacts showing up because of sensor dust in pics they took. I was very tempted to get MK 2 but things like sensor dust annoy me too much than they should. There is no sensor cleaning function in camera so you have to send it to Sony just for sensor cleaning, that is just sad for such an amazing camera. After warranty period is over, it can get very expensive to spend on sensor cleaning. If it had sensor cleaning function, I'd buy RX100 in a heartbeat.

I did. I din't see any reports on mrk II yet. Would you like to share your fact - RX100 II, dust on sensor? 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 08:29:45 PM by Dylan777 »
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thelebaron

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2013, 08:40:52 PM »
ive never heard of the rx100 dust issue, and after owning one for a period of time it was never an issue.

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2013, 05:00:19 PM »

I did. I din't see any reports on mrk II yet. Would you like to share your fact - RX100 II, dust on sensor?

Not yet. How many people actually bother to test for dust? Not many. And very few actually come to notice dust bunnies in the images they shot casually. To be honest, I'm hoping Sony took care of the dust issue when they designed Mk.2 . I really want it as an upgrade for my S90. I was looking at the Fuji X100S, but it suffers from dust issues like X100. Fingers crossed for RX100 mk.2.

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2013, 05:00:19 PM »

Dylan777

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2013, 10:19:17 AM »

I did. I din't see any reports on mrk II yet. Would you like to share your fact - RX100 II, dust on sensor?

Not yet. How many people actually bother to test for dust? Not many. And very few actually come to notice dust bunnies in the images they shot casually. To be honest, I'm hoping Sony took care of the dust issue when they designed Mk.2 . I really want it as an upgrade for my S90. I was looking at the Fuji X100S, but it suffers from dust issues like X100. Fingers crossed for RX100 mk.2.

At this moment, there is no "dust on sensor" report on RX100 mrk II. Make sure you have solid facts next time before comment.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 10:21:25 AM by Dylan777 »
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JohnDizzo15

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2013, 05:44:32 PM »
Before the conversation even begins re features and performance differences between the M and RX100, we should bear in mind that the RX100 is either twice the cost or more than the M. The RX100 II is 2.5 times more. Wouldn't have mentioned it, but it is a signficant difference and it doesn't appear that anyone else did in this thread.

Dylan777

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2013, 07:22:14 PM »
Before the conversation even begins re features and performance differences between the M and RX100, we should bear in mind that the RX100 is either twice the cost or more than the M. The RX100 II is 2.5 times more. Wouldn't have mentioned it, but it is a signficant difference and it doesn't appear that anyone else did in this thread.

What's the point buying a small camera that can't put in jean pocket? Let not hijack another thread. We already have this topic here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=16610.0

There is no right or wrong here. You might like pink camera, others like black. So, let move on.

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JohnDizzo15

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2013, 01:37:46 AM »
Wasn't trying to hijack another thread. Just adding some logic and necessary info to the conversation as it doesn't really make sense to even be comparing the two. Sure, it's great that something that costs more than twice what the other thing costs does some things better. But when else would a comparison with these same factors make sense?

If you're going to say that one thing is preferable to the other (or just a flat out better option), shouldn't they be closer in cost and class? To me, it's apples and oranges. Feature sets and respective niche have some major differences even putting the major price disparity aside.

Chosenbydestiny

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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2013, 03:30:42 AM »
What is this, a facebook status?  :P
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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2013, 10:07:24 AM »
Here's my 2 cents - like many M users, I am late to the party and only here by merit of the incredible value offered by the recent sale.  That being said, I have found the M to be far more impressive than what I anticipated and it has filled a niche for me despite having two FF bodies and a nice kit of lenses.

What I want to say regarding the (valid) accusation that the current kit of M specific lens is so small is that while I share that sentiment, I am at the same time pleased that every lens developed for the system has been 1) High quality, both in construction and optics and 2) Reasonably priced (not to be underestimated in Canon's universe!.  Everything about the system seems nicely constructed, from the very solid feel of the body to the nice build quality on the lenses.  I recently got the EF adapter and was impressed at its quality build along with the very clever and quality way the tripod foot was implemented.

So, my point is that while expansion of the system is not at the rate that you or I might like, at least Canon seems to be putting enough effort into what it has brought to market that it is worth buying.  And, thanks to the nature of mirrorless, between EF lenses and legacy lenses through adapters, I'm not exactly lacking glass to put in front of the sensor.
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Re: Returning M today...
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2013, 10:07:24 AM »