Well, it makes me pleased that I decided in January to buy a 5D III instead of waiting for the 7D II.
April 18, 2014, 05:23:56 PM
Topic: EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR2] (Read 34191 times)
AlanF
- 1D Mark IV
- Posts: 844
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5D III, 70D, Powershot SX50, 300/2.8 II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, 70-200/4 IS, 24-105, 15-85, Sigma 10-20, Tamron 150-600.
ITshooter
- PowerShot G16
- Posts: 16
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Here's a possible differentiation that no one's brought up: video-centric features.
The 70D has the new dual-pixel autofocus during video, and its inherited the All-I recording option found in the current-gen XD full frame cameras. But early sample footage suggests image quality isn't much better than that found in earlier ASP-C Canon models. Lots of artifacts, sub-HD resolution, etc.
That means the 7D II could feature some kind of significant step-up in video features. Maybe it will have a cleaner image, like the 5D Mark III (though I doubt it, if the 7D Mark II shares the 70D's sensor). Or maybe it will be a little sharper, like the 1DX, or even like the 35mm crop mode in the 1D-C. Or maybe Canon will do something really surprising, like implement decent video encoding. The much-ballyhooed All-I recording feature is better than the original implementation, but something that uses 4:2:2 color space would be nice, or that legitimately had a broadcast-ready bit rate.
Other rumors mentioned a 60fps burst mode, which has interesting photographic applications. That could produce 2.5 seconds of RAW 4K slow-mo footage, which opens up a world of applications currently unavailable to any Canon shooter--including the 1D-C crowd.
I think Canon could go this route without harming its other products.
The full frame models will have enough differentiation purely because of their larger sensors. The full frame aesthetic isn't possible on an ASP-C camera, at least not unless Speed Booster-style adaptors become more reliable and widely-adopted. For film people, it could make sense to have both an ASP-C body and a full-frame body, if Canon releases these hypothetical video enhancements. For stills people, meanwhile, if the 7D II shares the 70D's image sensor, full frame cameras are likewise still protected. So these video features present no loss to the XD full frame bodies, excluding losses that Canon is already evidently ready to accept (e.g. the company seems ready to accept some 5D Mark III losses among sports shooters by making the 7D Mark II a faster camera with a comparable autofocus system)
What about the C-series cameras? Well, the 7D II won't have the ergonomics of a C300, and that matters. If it didn't, Canon wouldn't be selling so many of the things. The RED Scarlet isn't much more money, and it produces better image quality in many ways. Still, the C300 still does very well because it allows faster workflows while offering, for most applications, video quality that's close enough to what one gets from RED. Plus there are other factors, such as built-in ND filters, audio ports, etc.
Also, Canon is going to have to move the lower-level C-series cameras to 4K relatively soon. Maybe not in the next year, but if the 7D Mark II is a 2014 camera, I wouldn't be surprised if a C300 mark II and a C100 mark II appeared shortly thereafter. If Black Magic ever gets its manufacturing act together, and if Sony keeps pushing hard on price, Canon's hand might be forced even sooner. So I don't think superior video specs on a 7D Mark II will cause any trouble with C-series bodies.
I constantly hear people talk about backlash when a company releases a superior spec on a downstream product-- i.e. is it possible some 5D Mark III users will be pissed if the 7D Mark II comes along with the video features they actually wanted? Sure, some people will grumble-- but they'd grumble more if Canon keeps relying on the same crappy video codecs.
The video improvements I've described could also help Canon with the Magic Lantern angle. I think Canon likes Magic Lantern in the sense that the hack encourages budget filmmakers to buy Canon DSLRs instead of, say, Nikon DSLRs, or something like the Sony FS100. But Canon also gets a lot of flack over Magic Lantern because the hacks illustrate how much Canon intentionally handicaps hardware. From Canon's perspective, this criticism isn't that big a deal, as it doesn't impact the markets where Canon makes its money-- e.g. consumers buying Rebels. But the markets it DOES annoy are still lucrative, both because there's a growing number of people in them, and because these people tend to buy more accessories than the average consumer. You'll find a million consumers who stick with the kit lens-- but try finding a wannabe filmmaker who hasn't begun investing in some fast primes, or who isn't salivating over something expensive, like the creamy bokeh of the 50L?
This is kind of a rambling post, but the point is this: I see lots of reasons for Canon to differentiate the 7D Mark II's video features in a major way, and not a lot of risk if the company chooses to do so.
The 70D has the new dual-pixel autofocus during video, and its inherited the All-I recording option found in the current-gen XD full frame cameras. But early sample footage suggests image quality isn't much better than that found in earlier ASP-C Canon models. Lots of artifacts, sub-HD resolution, etc.
That means the 7D II could feature some kind of significant step-up in video features. Maybe it will have a cleaner image, like the 5D Mark III (though I doubt it, if the 7D Mark II shares the 70D's sensor). Or maybe it will be a little sharper, like the 1DX, or even like the 35mm crop mode in the 1D-C. Or maybe Canon will do something really surprising, like implement decent video encoding. The much-ballyhooed All-I recording feature is better than the original implementation, but something that uses 4:2:2 color space would be nice, or that legitimately had a broadcast-ready bit rate.
Other rumors mentioned a 60fps burst mode, which has interesting photographic applications. That could produce 2.5 seconds of RAW 4K slow-mo footage, which opens up a world of applications currently unavailable to any Canon shooter--including the 1D-C crowd.
I think Canon could go this route without harming its other products.
The full frame models will have enough differentiation purely because of their larger sensors. The full frame aesthetic isn't possible on an ASP-C camera, at least not unless Speed Booster-style adaptors become more reliable and widely-adopted. For film people, it could make sense to have both an ASP-C body and a full-frame body, if Canon releases these hypothetical video enhancements. For stills people, meanwhile, if the 7D II shares the 70D's image sensor, full frame cameras are likewise still protected. So these video features present no loss to the XD full frame bodies, excluding losses that Canon is already evidently ready to accept (e.g. the company seems ready to accept some 5D Mark III losses among sports shooters by making the 7D Mark II a faster camera with a comparable autofocus system)
What about the C-series cameras? Well, the 7D II won't have the ergonomics of a C300, and that matters. If it didn't, Canon wouldn't be selling so many of the things. The RED Scarlet isn't much more money, and it produces better image quality in many ways. Still, the C300 still does very well because it allows faster workflows while offering, for most applications, video quality that's close enough to what one gets from RED. Plus there are other factors, such as built-in ND filters, audio ports, etc.
Also, Canon is going to have to move the lower-level C-series cameras to 4K relatively soon. Maybe not in the next year, but if the 7D Mark II is a 2014 camera, I wouldn't be surprised if a C300 mark II and a C100 mark II appeared shortly thereafter. If Black Magic ever gets its manufacturing act together, and if Sony keeps pushing hard on price, Canon's hand might be forced even sooner. So I don't think superior video specs on a 7D Mark II will cause any trouble with C-series bodies.
I constantly hear people talk about backlash when a company releases a superior spec on a downstream product-- i.e. is it possible some 5D Mark III users will be pissed if the 7D Mark II comes along with the video features they actually wanted? Sure, some people will grumble-- but they'd grumble more if Canon keeps relying on the same crappy video codecs.
The video improvements I've described could also help Canon with the Magic Lantern angle. I think Canon likes Magic Lantern in the sense that the hack encourages budget filmmakers to buy Canon DSLRs instead of, say, Nikon DSLRs, or something like the Sony FS100. But Canon also gets a lot of flack over Magic Lantern because the hacks illustrate how much Canon intentionally handicaps hardware. From Canon's perspective, this criticism isn't that big a deal, as it doesn't impact the markets where Canon makes its money-- e.g. consumers buying Rebels. But the markets it DOES annoy are still lucrative, both because there's a growing number of people in them, and because these people tend to buy more accessories than the average consumer. You'll find a million consumers who stick with the kit lens-- but try finding a wannabe filmmaker who hasn't begun investing in some fast primes, or who isn't salivating over something expensive, like the creamy bokeh of the 50L?
This is kind of a rambling post, but the point is this: I see lots of reasons for Canon to differentiate the 7D Mark II's video features in a major way, and not a lot of risk if the company chooses to do so.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 05:54:42 PM by ITshooter »
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Cameras - 5D Mark III, 60D, EOS-M; Primes - Canon EF-M 22mm f/2, Canon 40mm f/2.8, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 85mm f/1.8, Tamron 90mm f/2.8 macro; Zooms - Tokina 11-16 f/2.8, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Canon 70-200 f/4 L
Alejandro Calori
- PowerShot G16
- Posts: 3
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GPS in the 7D MK II will mean a top plastic cover, just like the 6D. I don't like it.
One of the forts of the 7D was his extreme weather sealing and its durability.
One of the forts of the 7D was his extreme weather sealing and its durability.
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sagittariansrock
- 5D Mark III
- Posts: 685
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I'm not even a crop shooter and I still think the 7D2 could be dynamite if they 'pro' it up on build, framerate, AF, etc. If you own $10k+ of longer glass, I still think a built-for-war, high FPS, stellar focusing APS-C rig could sell for $2500 and be successful.
- A
Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but as a current 7D owner (I may or not be a typical one) my main reason to upgrade would be better IQ across the ISO range, I'm already happy with the current 7D's build, framerate and AF spread (accuracy is another matter possibly, as discussed elsewhere). What you are describing is more a backup or second body to a shooter already heavily invested in glass and full frame bodies than an upgrade for somebody who has the 7D as their primary body.
+1
I am in the same boat. All I really want from my next camera is higher ISO sensitivity, otherwise I am very content with the 7D. Now, I had been hoping my next camera could be the 7DII and I am willing to wait a year if I know it will have what I want. However, this rumor makes me feel I should look to upgrade to a full frame- now, that involves replacing all my EF-S lenses with equivalent quality EF zooms, and that is a major headache financially since I don't make money out of this. Also, it is hard to upgrade from the 7DII to 6D and lose all the nice features I have gotten used to. So, that is a $ 2000 shocker right there, and that if I manage to get a good price on my used 7D and if I catch a good deal... Oh bummer!
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Never sarcastic, just misinterpreted sometimes.
EOS 5DIII | EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 50mm f/1.8 II, EF 135mm f/2 L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 2x III | 600-EX-RT | 2x YN-622c
EOS 5DIII | EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 50mm f/1.8 II, EF 135mm f/2 L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 2x III | 600-EX-RT | 2x YN-622c
mdmphoto
- PowerShot G1 X II
- Posts: 59
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I've owned a 7D since shortly after its introduction. I bought a 6D this past April. On my recent trip I shot the 6D as my carry-around (still getting to know it) and anytime the light was low. I used either/or in daylight. Action (surfers, birds, etc.) in daylight was almost exclusively 7D. The dynamic range of the 6D beats the 7D hands-down. 7D AF, AF points, frame rate is way above 6D capabilities. My 7D captures almost double the frames my 6D does in the same amount of time. I don't regret buying the 6D just for the increased ability to shoot well at night, and for better detail in my landscapes. The 7D has survived so long because as a new breed it was far superior to the xxD line, and its features pushed the xD line; though it lacked xD DR & ISO capabilities most of these issues could be addressed in ppc. Marry the best features of the two bodies together for a sure winner in the 7D MkII.
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6D, 7D,50D, 17-55IS, 24-105L, 70-200 Fl2.8L IS, 135L, tokina 16-28, 150-500 & a buffet more, 580 EXII, 430 EXII, AB 800's
Zv
- 1D X
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- Posts: 1036
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Why would Canon put the sensor from a xxD line into a xD model? Shouldn't it be the other way round? A new sensor in the flagship APS-C body that will eventually trickle it's way downwards?
I'm liking my 7D more and more these days, and if this rumor were to be true I'd be keeping it. Might as well wait for the 5D4 or 6D2 at this rate!
I'm liking my 7D more and more these days, and if this rumor were to be true I'd be keeping it. Might as well wait for the 5D4 or 6D2 at this rate!
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5D II | 7D | EOS M + 22 f2 | 17-40L | 24-105L | 70-200 f4L IS | 135L | Samyang 14mm f/2.8 | Sigma 50 f/1.4
canon rumors FORUM
Lee Jay
- 6D
- Posts: 502
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Maybe they want to release a full frame with on sensor PDAF at the same time.
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brad-man
- 6D
- Posts: 596
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Why would Canon put the sensor from a xxD line into a xD model? Shouldn't it be the other way round? A new sensor in the flagship APS-C body that will eventually trickle it's way downwards?
I'm liking my 7D more and more these days, and if this rumor were to be true I'd be keeping it. Might as well wait for the 5D4 or 6D2 at this rate!
+1 I think it's pretty much a given that the new 7D will have outstanding AF, but I find it hard to believe that the sensor improvement will be so marginal. If true, then I guess Canon really is having trouble in the sensor development area. Looks like I'll be keeping my 7D around for quite some time as well.
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