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Author Topic: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]  (Read 51354 times)

ahsanford

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2013, 10:52:27 PM »
Triple ditto? 

Well anyway, I'm sticking to my theory. If Nikon rolls out the D400 in the next two months, I think we may see the 70D sensor in the 7D. If Nikon does nothing in the fall and Canon holds off until sometime in 2014, I think the odds of a shiny new sensor go up significantly.

I don't want to look a triple ditto gift horse in the mouth, but...   ::)

I'm not certain the 7D2 is just waiting for a Canon "Execute build plan delta!" audible to be called from corporate in quick response to a Nikon offering.  I'm sure they'd love to, but does it work that way?

I don't think the sensor decision (in particular) is a plug-and-play variable in the design.  I'm an engineer (not a EE to be fair), but wouldn't an 11th hour sensor decision drive a lot of other issues, like processor bandwidth, LiveView control firmware, rate-limiting the shutter to not overheat the processor / fill the buffer too soon, etc.  Also, doesn't the board + sensor have a specialized mount with power and heat sink considerations?

Just thinking out loud... Maybe it could be as Unfocused has said if Canon's development process banked things as they went.  It's possible that they have a banked 'vanilla' 7D2 design (only so-so, think '70D plus') ready for manufacture should Nikon offer the D400, but could concurrently be working on a more badass variant should the competition take longer with their designs...  As much as we believe Canon has armies of engineers and dozen of design variants (to some extent I am sure they do), it would be horrifically inefficient to take many concepts all the way to near-production prep like that.

(...but it would SO explain why new products take so damn long with Canon.   :P)

- A
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 10:58:20 PM by ahsanford »

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2013, 10:52:27 PM »

ahsanford

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2013, 10:55:19 PM »
7D2 is like the Higgs Boson. You know it is out there but you can't put a finger on it! :)

No no no.  Either a weather-sealed 35 F/1.4L II or a Canon 24-70 F/2.8L II with IS is the Higgs-Boson.

 :P

- A

pwp

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2013, 11:23:20 PM »
7D2 is like the Higgs Boson. You know it is out there but you can't put a finger on it! :)
+1 Hah! Very good.

-PW

tnargs

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2013, 11:50:10 PM »
I still am not buying the rumor that the 70D sensor is the same as the 7D2 sensor.  That only would have made sense if the 7D2 came out considerably in advance of the 70D, and that ship has sailed.   Why a lower trimline body would get such a vital core IQ component that a far better product will get a year later makes no sense at all.

But the 7D wasn't the first model with the 18MP sensor. IIRC Canon said it was 'different' to prior 18 MP models, but it was pretty subtle. So why should it have to be first with the new 20 MP sensor?

If we are lucky, it will be a slightly upped version of the 20.

tnargs

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2013, 11:53:01 PM »
Sony had a 24 MP APS-C rig... what -- three or four years ago? 

1.9 years ago. Still a way to go for that series.

Orangutan

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2013, 12:41:18 AM »
I don't think the sensor decision (in particular) is a plug-and-play variable in the design.  I'm an engineer (not a EE to be fair), but wouldn't an 11th hour sensor decision drive a lot of other issues, like processor bandwidth, LiveView control firmware, rate-limiting the shutter to not overheat the processor / fill the buffer too soon, etc.  Also, doesn't the board + sensor have a specialized mount with power and heat sink considerations?

Speculating here, and I'm not an engineer.  I can't imagine how it would be very far from PnP, considering each component likely has to be designed by a separate team.  My guess is that they would give each team a target range for parameters, then tweak them to make it fit together in the the last few months of design.  So if they use the 20Mp sensor they might get 11.3 fps, but if they go with a new 24Mp sensor it would be (20/24) * 11.3 = 9.4 fps.  But I'm just blowing smoke...

If the 70D's IQ is "reasonable" then the 7D2 would do with that sensor if it has the performance of a mini-1DX.  And Canon wouldn't sell it if it were a mini 1DX with the IQ to match.  If the 70D's IQ really is indistinguishable from the 60D's, it would be hard to achieve the quantity sales with the 7D2 they appear to have gotten from the current 7D.

candyman

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2013, 12:52:54 AM »
Why the discussion about more megapixel? Isn't the 7D (and MK II) aimed at sports / birding shooters? It already has the 1.6x crop. For me 18mp was ok. The 8 fps was ok too. Mostly I want usable ISO 6400. And 19 points AF was ok too. I wouldn't dislike the AF system of the 5D MKIII but if the 7D MK II does not have more than 19, then it is not a showstopper for me to buy the 7D MK II. I like the AF presets of the 5D MK III. Would be nice if they include this in the 7D MK II.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 01:09:07 AM by candyman »
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2013, 12:52:54 AM »

sagittariansrock

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2013, 01:21:40 AM »
I'm looking at it differently. The longer Canon delays, the more the 5DIII and 6D will drop in price. So, while waiting is hard, I tell myself that I've still got the best APS-C camera overall and as a consumer, I like the idea of being able to choose between a spiffy new 7DII or a nicely discounted 5DIII or 6D.

The thing is, even I am okay with upgrading by mid-2014, but if Canon has at least announces the 7DII by the end of this year then I can decide if I want to wait for the 7DII (if the ISO performance is significantly better than 7D then it is a cheaper option) or get the 5DIII (more expensive but definitely superior).
Furthermore, if Canon actually released it this year, then by mid-2014 the price would have come down some and stabilized.
Oh well, I think I'll just bite the bullet on the 5DIII if Adorama, etc. announces another sale- just hate to think of the hassle of selling all the EF-S lenses...

If I may ask a thread-unrelated question: Is it better to buy new from BigValue or buy refurbished direct from Canon (through CLP)? The 5DIII prices are pretty close and now Canon provides 1 year warranty on refurbs.
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pj1974

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2013, 02:53:41 AM »
A number of us posted on a thread some time ago (a few months?) - about the time from R&D on new technology and putting into a new DSLR, and the time between initial announcement, to production and final release.

The most knowledgable people (including some CR contributors who work in electronics / R&D) - said that the process would usually take some years with 'new technology', into something like an DSLR.

So, I believe Canon could have a new sensor in the 7DmkII - as well as 1 or 2 other 'great features' (eg improved AF, eg more pts and dual focus LiveView & improved optical focus).

Hoping for such a camera, sometime in 2014!

Regards

Paul
I appreciate using my 7D and 350D cameras along with a host of lenses & many accessories to capture quality photos, and share with friends.

VanWeddings

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2013, 03:38:25 AM »
Quote
•Video features are said to be limited by marketing

guess I was right to move away from canon, aka the crippler

CarlMillerPhoto

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2013, 04:11:50 AM »
Quote
  • Video features are said to be limited by marketing (or by Magic Lantern)

To me, this is the most interesting part of the rumour. What's not clear is if the limitations are going to be software or hardware. If it is the latter then the problem has become that ML can deliver firmware that is seen by Canon to turn a cheap camera into something that can compete with the expensive ones (the EOS-C series - Cx00, 1DC.) Thus future ML firmware for the 7D2 may be able to deliver new features but it won't be able to deliver (say) RAW 4k video. If the video features are simply software limitations from marketing to prevent competition with the EOS-C series then it will be interesting to see what ML can do with it...

+++++++1

I completely understand how offering better video features might cut into sales of Canon's Cinema line. Given that, it makes sense why Canon would intentionally cripple their products. However, I think Canon needs to be careful on this front. Yes, they might sell a couple more C100's or 1DC's if they continue to go bare-bones on the video features, but I guarantee they'll sell a lot less DSLR's if they make ML impossible to use. A lot of the 5D video shooters aren't willing to jump ship for a $6,500 C100 (which doesn't even have 720p 60fps, has a lower bitrate than the 5D, and a crappy codec!). The people who are upgrading are doing so for XLR inputs & built-in NDs, which will never be on a DSLR, so why not make the minor features (headphone out, 1/47 shutter, live video historgram, etc.) standard on all Canon bodies? It's only a matter of time until Panasonic, Sony, or Black Magic truly nail it with a camera offering (i.e. no weird quarks, no ridiculous mount/sensor size, EOS mount option, same capabilities as the Mark III + ML...minus the raw of course, etc.), and Canon better pray they don't nail it with a full-frame offering.

I think Canon (and perhaps many people on this forum) aren't ready to admit that DSLRs are now both stills and video cameras. It's definitely more profitable to keep them separate, and I get that. Yet, thanks to ML the market has changed. People now expect those features (again, minus the raw) at the $3,500 price point. Canon can fight that all they want, but the fact remains that DSLR shooters have been enjoying those features for quite a while now (who honestly does video on a Canon without ML?). Those features have come to be expected. Canon can hold out as long as they want, but that only increases the possibility of one of the aforementioned manufacturers coming away and completely robbing Canon of its entire DSLR video market. ESPECIALLY if they rid us of ML. I think everyone can at least agree that's a pretty big market to lose.
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vlim

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2013, 05:28:05 AM »
A number of us posted on a thread some time ago (a few months?) - about the time from R&D on new technology and putting into a new DSLR, and the time between initial announcement, to production and final release.
Quote
The most knowledgable people (including some CR contributors who work in electronics / R&D) - said that the process would usually take some years with 'new technology', into something like an DSLR.

So, I believe Canon could have a new sensor in the 7DmkII - as well as 1 or 2 other 'great features' (eg improved AF, eg more pts and dual focus LiveView & improved optical focus).

Hoping for such a camera, sometime in 2014!

Regards

Paul

I guess you're right Paul. In terms of marketing this new body has to be really well positionned ; well above the new 70d in terms of specs and price  but it can't be in competition with the 5DIII even if it's a FF body (6D is not the problem, this body isn't for wildlife or sport shooting, the 5DIII can easily do it).

So i see its specs and price between those two bodies with high fps (8 to 10), great AF, high iso capabilities but not as good as the 5DIII (FF can't be matched by crop body for now), a weather sealed body and a better version of the sensor of the 70D...  I don't see the Wifi in (it would be an upgrade compared to the 5DIII).


Pitspics

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2013, 06:11:18 AM »
canon should do the following:  ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200  ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy  8)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 06:18:48 AM by Pitspics »
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2013, 06:11:18 AM »

Ewinter

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2013, 06:27:40 AM »
canon should do the following:  ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200  ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy  8)

 having a 5d3 I can tell you that I don't have the time to crop 3000 wildlife photos and would rather use my 7d if the light's good

Pitspics

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2013, 06:46:55 AM »
canon should do the following:  ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200  ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy  8)

 having a 5d3 I can tell you that I don't have the time to crop 3000 wildlife photos and would rather use my 7d if the light's good

who shoot 3000 photos at once?  :o
i think most of the photographers are still crop their images. no matter with which camera they were taken. (a little bit less on the right side, more center, or a little bit closer, perspective correction...)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 06:49:25 AM by Pitspics »
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2013, 06:46:55 AM »