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Author Topic: The last Canon crop sensor - ever  (Read 36084 times)

hgraf

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2013, 10:31:42 AM »
Canon aren't selling any APS-C cameras these days....
Really? Check and you'll see they just sell more than anyone else on the planet.
Canon APS-C will be around for a good long time to come. I'd bet the farm on it.

-PW

Check out the rest of the line you chopped off, I'm pretty sure the poster was being sarcastic with this line... :)

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2013, 10:31:42 AM »

Pi

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2013, 10:37:07 AM »
Increases in pixel density means increases in file sizes. 33 MB for a RAW file from a 5D III is enough for me, thank you. The APS-C crop requires only 40% of the file size.

It does not, see what Nikon is doing with their crop mode, and compressed formats. Canon has lower resolution "RAW"s as well.

Cory

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2013, 10:45:12 AM »
I would eliminate all crop sensors and put all R&D funds into a high-end 1.6x extender.
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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2013, 10:49:28 AM »
It's the one thing that bugs me on this forum.  That you can only aspire to full frame.  That you can only aspire to the most expensive best of kit.

It does seem to get a little ridiculous sometimes, doesn't it?

It does indeed.

If one were to look at sales numbers, profitability and general trends in technology, a much better case could be made that full frame is the format that is heading toward oblivion.

Trend: Cell Phone Cameras – Research and development dollars are going into improving the sensors in cell phones, which has become the major feature differentiating the brands of cell phones. Cell phones are now the camera of choice for most of the population. Lessons learned in improving the quality of sensors for cell phones are much more applicable to APS-C and smaller sensors than to full frame sensors.

Trend: Mirrorless – In the mirrorless world, APS-C sensors are the big boys. Full frame mirrorless is a virtually non-existent niche market, but more and more manufacturers are turning to APS-C for their flagship mirrorless bodies.

Trend: Small DSLRs – Canon is at the leading edge here with the SL1. Whether or not other manufacturers follow is likely to depend on how successful they are. But, certainly it's an innovative approach that shows Canon is looking at ways to expand the appeal of their APS-C offerings.

Trend: Manufacturing Costs – APS-C remains cheaper to produce and the research dollars can be spread over a much broader base: EOS-M, SL1, Rebels, XXD and 7D. Canon only offers three full frame cameras and each has its own sensor.

Trend: Other Technologies – Software development is not standing still. Improvements in noise reduction, sharpness and resizing programming will further narrow the visible differences between APS-C and full frame.

Trend: Output – Already, most images live on computer screens. In fact, the vast majority of images probably live on cell phones. An iPad or similar tablet device is about the best you can expect for most of your images.

Trend: Output II – If a picture isn't living at 72-100 ppi on a tablet device, it's probably living in a self-published book, at a maximum size of about 11 or 12 inches (usually smaller) and with all the compromises of CMYK printing.

Trend: Output III – For that tiny fraction of images that finally end up as a print on someone's wall, the printing technology is also advancing and, like everything else, the emphasis is on getting the best possible output from APS-C and smaller format files.

I am not saying that full frame is dead or dying. But the truth is, if one wants to pursue this pointless argument, you need to look at all the trends, not just look at what camera manufacturers are doing as they try to capture a share of a relatively stagnant market.

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can0nfan2379

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2013, 11:15:05 AM »
Being a nature / wildlife photographer, I would not want to see APS-C disappear if only for the crop factor advantage.  In fact, I would love to see a 1-series crop sensor body....
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Pi

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2013, 11:17:44 AM »
Being a nature / wildlife photographer, I would not want to see APS-C disappear if only for the crop factor advantage.  In fact, I would love to see a 1-series crop sensor body....

With increased pixel densities, cropping can be a setting in your FF camera, like with Nikon.

pharp

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2013, 11:20:53 AM »
Canon has proved they can make a really (too?) small DSLR - I would love to see a mirrorless version of the 70D body (same back plane distance) and a REALLY, REALLY big, high quality eye level EVF w/focus peaking, fast AF and fast FPS. They'd have the real estate where the mirror goes. would people go for it - ??

« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 11:38:50 AM by pharp »

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2013, 11:20:53 AM »

silvestography

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2013, 11:23:02 AM »
I would eliminate all crop sensors and put all R&D funds into a high-end 1.6x extender.

Or just pull a nikon and include a 1.6x crop mode into full frame bodies.
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paul13walnut5

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2013, 11:23:32 AM »
Canon aren't selling any APS-C cameras these days....
Really? Check and you'll see they just sell more than anyone else on the planet.
Canon APS-C will be around for a good long time to come. I'd bet the farm on it.

-PW

The sarcasm has been missed, I believe.

Yep.  By a country mile!

Don Haines

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2013, 11:31:12 AM »
So the rumoured 7D2 comes out.....

It will have 1DX like autofocus..... does the 6D?
It will have 10 or 12 frame/second burst rate.... does the 6D?
It will have dual-pixel live-view tracking at up to F11.... does the 6D?
It will be weather-sealed.....
In good light it will put twice as many pixels on target of distant objects.....
It will not work as well in poor light...
It will be better at far objects and worse for wide angle.....
There's the trade-off....

For the way I shoot, 95% of the time I will be better off with the 7D2... 5% of the time I will be better off with a 6D. (that's me, I expect others will have different requirements) guess which one I would buy...
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Marsu42

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2013, 11:34:41 AM »
It's the one thing that bugs me on this forum.  That you can only aspire to full frame.

Imho this has gotten much better during the time I read CR (about 2 years) since word has spread that crop sensors are suited for many situations - esp. reach and also if you don't shoot in very low light or want a super-thin dof. Also there are some knowledgeable pros here who stick to crop even if they could easily afford ff equipment, so the notion "real photogs use ff" is obsolete.

Thankfully nowadays people not aspiring to get the latest/most expensive equipment are seldom answered with "get a better job" or "just buy a ff and your problems are over", but much more helpful advice and questions what should be achieved with the equipment.

sdsr

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2013, 11:36:32 AM »
Canon has proved they can make a really (too?) small DSLR - I would love to see a mirrorless version of the 70D body (same back plane distance) and a REALLY, REALLY good eye level EVF w/focus peaking and fast FPS. They'd have the real estate where the mirror goes. would people go for it - ??

Given how sales of mirrorless cameras are in decline except for a couple of Asian markets (the only type of non-cellphone camera whose sales increased last year was the dslr), I wouldn't be too optimistic, even though I would like to be - much as I like my FF Canons, I also like my Olympus OM-D and like the idea of FF mirrorless cameras (but only Sony so far has come close to providing that). 

pharp

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2013, 11:46:29 AM »
Canon has proved they can make a really (too?) small DSLR - I would love to see a mirrorless version of the 70D body (same back plane distance) and a REALLY, REALLY good eye level EVF w/focus peaking and fast FPS. They'd have the real estate where the mirror goes. would people go for it - ??

Given how sales of mirrorless cameras are in decline except for a couple of Asian markets (the only type of non-cellphone camera whose sales increased last year was the dslr), I wouldn't be too optimistic, even though I would like to be - much as I like my FF Canons, I also like my Olympus OM-D and like the idea of FF mirrorless cameras (but only Sony so far has come close to providing that).

I think mirrorless sales would pick up if they made the right camera - almost there. I really like my OM-D also, especially now that focus peaking functionality has been uncovered - sweet!. I like the small lenses, but a slightly bigger body wouldn't be all bad either. The OM-D's EVF is great in low light and the MF assist is often useful. A 70D version of the OM-D would be really nice. Other than the micro43 - the mirrorless systems just don't have the lenses.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 11:56:08 AM by pharp »

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2013, 11:46:29 AM »

docsmith

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2013, 12:06:20 PM »
It's the one thing that bugs me on this forum.  That you can only aspire to full frame.  That you can only aspire to the most expensive best of kit.

It does seem to get a little ridiculous sometimes, doesn't it?

It does indeed.

If one were to look at sales numbers, profitability and general trends in technology, a much better case could be made that full frame is the format that is heading toward oblivion.

Trend: Cell Phone Cameras – Research and development dollars are going into improving the sensors in cell phones, which has become the major feature differentiating the brands of cell phones. Cell phones are now the camera of choice for most of the population. Lessons learned in improving the quality of sensors for cell phones are much more applicable to APS-C and smaller sensors than to full frame sensors.

Trend: Mirrorless – In the mirrorless world, APS-C sensors are the big boys. Full frame mirrorless is a virtually non-existent niche market, but more and more manufacturers are turning to APS-C for their flagship mirrorless bodies.

Trend: Small DSLRs – Canon is at the leading edge here with the SL1. Whether or not other manufacturers follow is likely to depend on how successful they are. But, certainly it's an innovative approach that shows Canon is looking at ways to expand the appeal of their APS-C offerings.

Trend: Manufacturing Costs – APS-C remains cheaper to produce and the research dollars can be spread over a much broader base: EOS-M, SL1, Rebels, XXD and 7D. Canon only offers three full frame cameras and each has its own sensor.

Trend: Other Technologies – Software development is not standing still. Improvements in noise reduction, sharpness and resizing programming will further narrow the visible differences between APS-C and full frame.

Trend: Output – Already, most images live on computer screens. In fact, the vast majority of images probably live on cell phones. An iPad or similar tablet device is about the best you can expect for most of your images.

Trend: Output II – If a picture isn't living at 72-100 ppi on a tablet device, it's probably living in a self-published book, at a maximum size of about 11 or 12 inches (usually smaller) and with all the compromises of CMYK printing.

Trend: Output III – For that tiny fraction of images that finally end up as a print on someone's wall, the printing technology is also advancing and, like everything else, the emphasis is on getting the best possible output from APS-C and smaller format files.

I am not saying that full frame is dead or dying. But the truth is, if one wants to pursue this pointless argument, you need to look at all the trends, not just look at what camera manufacturers are doing as they try to capture a share of a relatively stagnant market.

Biggest trend?  Most people are now only viewing their photos on Facebook or other monitor driven device and the IQ of the monitor/device is a major limiting factor in IQ and not necessarily the camera that takes the picture....

I don't think FF will die, but you can see the film FF market being very different from the digital FF market.

coreyhkh

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2013, 12:20:40 PM »
Stupid post.

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Re: The last Canon crop sensor - ever
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2013, 12:20:40 PM »