July 28, 2014, 02:41:21 AM

Author Topic: Reprimanded for a photograph  (Read 12698 times)

paul13walnut5

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2013, 11:10:00 AM »

To be honest with the OP, I wouldn't even try this in a Glasgow shopping mall.

Any specific reason Paul? Other than the possibility that the lady in the picture was accompanied by a gorilla sized boyfriend.

I deal with security every day in Scotland, I'm a cameraman / editor for a publishing company and we record in all sorts of locations.  Shopping malls are generally bad news.  On the street the principle of queens highway applies on public land, on private or enclosed spaces you are often at the mercy of the landowner or their agents.  The approximate law is that you can prevented on private land so long as an objection has made or there are signs stating no photography.

The only time I've nearly came close to hitting somebody in anger in my adult life was at a shopping mall near my home.  I had jumped in after work to buy a sandwich for a quick snack.  I got stopped by a guard because i was carrying a tripod over my shoulder.  Not a camera, camera tucked away in rucksack.  But a tripod.

It became very heated and the guy was a moron, who had to concede that he had a mobile with a camera, wheras my camera was packed away and that you can't capture images with a tripod alone.

I wouldn;t not have thought this shot worth the hassle.
I wouldn't have been confident about the cultural norms of photographing an exposed part of an otherwise concealed body.
I don't speak arabic.
I don't know the law.
I just wouldn't do it.
On a personal basis.

If I was being paid on a job to get it, I'd find a way, but I can't think of a realistic circumstance where that would occur.

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2013, 11:10:00 AM »

paul13walnut5

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2013, 11:14:04 AM »
An ankle shot in Dubai is like a full nude in NYC...

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Don Haines

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2013, 11:16:08 AM »
I would not have taken that photo in any country without the permission of the lady involved.

For one, you have showed great disrespect to the lady (according to her beliefs). Secondly, you are lucky to have not been detained and have had your camera "dropped and broken" to teach you a lesson. You were not in Los Vegas or L.A.......
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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2013, 11:28:20 AM »
Your experiences on this front are welcome.

No picture is subversive itself, but only the message you read from it. And your picture might be read as saying that women are banned from wearing attractive fashion, but they defy this regulation by wearing it semi-hidden ... and here you touch *the* hot potato between religions and "clash of cultures".

I'm German and live in Berlin, and in the former east German GDR people were imprisoned for just this sort of picture/poem/... because authorities knew the citizens were trained to "read between the lines" - if you'd play innocent like "I can point my camera anywhere" this'd been a one way ticket to the Staatssicherheit prison and solitary confinement. As Dubai and neighboring arab countries are authoritarian states (you can also simply call them dictatorships) you get the idea...

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2013, 11:32:24 AM »
Recently, a Norwegien woman was raped in Dubai. She reported the rape and they gave HER a 16 month prison sentence for sex outside of marriage. The rape case never saw the light of day.

You say you have travelled extensively, so why would you ignore the advise of your host?

Larry

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2013, 11:47:02 AM »

  Let me ask the OP this: Why didn't you approach the woman and show her your great photo?  Ask her to pose for you? If what you did was "culturally sensitive", why did you have to be secretive?




To speak, or not to speak, of the Emporer's new clothes:

The wearer in the photo is apparently content to be seen so attired in a public place (the Dubai Mall) frequented by visitors from all over the world.

The inter-net is "a public place frequented by visitors from all over the world".

I think the photo captures a "fact" of life.

I find the contrast between the traditional and the contemporary interesting.

If a certain religious sect dyed their children's' hair green, that also might be considered "interesting".

If the group considered any notice taking or comment by "unbelievers" about their green-hair custom sufficient justification for violence, …that too would be "interesting".

It would also be good reason to be "secretive" (as a previous poster seemed to disapprove of) when drawing attention to or discussing the sect's practices.

If the sect's (or any other group's) preferences were to be the determinant of what was to be known by the rest of the world, the general knowledge-pool would be seriously restricted.

I support the anti-censorship faction, and applaud the photographer, …but advise caution.

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2013, 11:50:25 AM »
I am about to tick off some people, but feel the need to say a bit.  I have traveled, and continue to travel, to some remarkable places on the planet.  I have had the opportunity to travel to some of the holiest (insert your own definition here) Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist places on the planet.  Please withhold the commentary about my Western attitude or parochialism.

When in any part of the world, I try to adhere to local cultural and religious sensitivities.  I'd not enter a cathedral during services with a flash nor a Mosque without conservative attire and permission.  I generally ask people before I take their photo.  I take anyone's refusal to be photographed seriously. 

But, seeing a man with a pot belly, t-shirt and baggy jeans smoking a cigarette followed by a woman covered head to foot in fabric (and the appropriate number of paces behind) on a 40 degree Celcius day is not culture or religion.  It is repression and essentially slavery justified as culture and religion.  Once, as part of an educational experience a group of us (male and female) tried on this garb and I can tell you it is pretty miserable. 


I'm not at all "ticked off," but I do find it a bit odd that you don't seem to realize that what you say in your third paragraph is a manifestation of the "Western attitude" mentioned in your first paragraph, not some objective, universal moral truth.

 do you really want to have a philosophical debate about morality?   I'm pretty sure my minor in philosophy prepared me for a moment like this...  unless it was just blow off classes...  then it prepared me for Jack squat.

To the extent your point is that this isn't the best place to debate morality, you may be right - though that debate had already begun when I made my comment.  But I would be quite happy to have a philosophical debate about morality otherwise, elsewhere, and am delighted to learn that you are prepared for one.

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2013, 11:50:25 AM »

thepancakeman

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2013, 12:35:28 PM »
Strikes me as kinda like the pedestrian killed in the crosswalk who had the right-of-way.  Just because you can do something or may even have the right to, doesn't mean you are not putting your life at risk by exercising that right.

So, the question you need to ask, is "Is this photo important enough to risk my life over"?  It certainly wouldn't be for me, but you might make a different call.

jdramirez

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2013, 01:09:18 PM »
Strikes me as kinda like the pedestrian killed in the crosswalk who had the right-of-way.  Just because you can do something or may even have the right to, doesn't mean you are not putting your life at risk by exercising that right.

So, the question you need to ask, is "Is this photo important enough to risk my life over"?  It certainly wouldn't be for me, but you might make a different call.

 give me a few to brush up on my Kant  and Hegal...  all I remember at the moment is that I was so bored...  oh and the blonde with the long legs.
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risc32

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2013, 01:31:40 PM »
sweet sweet dubai. http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Apr/130415emmet.htm

BTW- that photo is making me randy !  ;)

Jay Khaos

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2013, 01:41:43 PM »
I know everyone loves to jump on the "americans are ignorant fatasses" bandwagon because it's easier than making a rational argument.... but come here to Orlando, FL (Disney and all of the parks/resorts) and tell me westerners are the only ones who are ignorant to foreign cultures and norms... Youll find easterners and europeans by the boatload portraying a bunch of lame stereotypes commonly associated with their own cultures that probably don't pertain to the average person where they are from...

I like the photo and I like it even more knowing there is controversy or risk of injury in getting it... Fuck that lady's ankle (jk lol)...
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AdamJ

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2013, 01:47:31 PM »
sweet sweet dubai. http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Apr/130415emmet.htm

BTW- that photo is making me randy !  ;)


And that's the trouble with this photo. One man's insightful socioreligious commentary is another man's snapshot of a sexy pair of shoes. My first reaction to the photo was to wonder whether the photographer has a shoe fetish.

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2013, 02:15:38 PM »
You have to exercise caution in the Middle East and be aware of what the law is, not what you believe is culturally sensitive.
I have worked in the middle east. I know people who have spents days in just prison for talking to a local woman in Iran.
The locals in UAE do like the trappings of Western culture. You see Burkas and Guchi handbags. It is a strange mix and it is normal. You are not allowed to drink but the law turns a blind eye. If you are in a trraffic accident with a local, it is automatically your fault because you shouldn't be in their country.
There is the recent case of Marte Deborah Dalelv who was imprisoned in UAE after being raped: "The 24-year-old reported the March attack to the police but found herself charged with having extramarital sex, drinking alcohol, and perjury."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448

This is not me being melodramatic but if you had been seen taking this photo you may have regretted it.
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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2013, 02:15:38 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2013, 02:18:43 PM »
It doesn't matter what the activity is or what the country is, when your guide/host says "don't do this" and you go ahead and do it anyway, you have burned some bridges. At the minimum you have lost a friend. Sometimes you will get away with it, sometime you will get robbed and beaten, sometimes jailed, sometimes....... it's not worth it.

Some societies are not tolerant of those who break thier rules.... you could have been arrested for that photo and most likely your host would have been arrested too.
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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2013, 02:18:57 PM »
Dear Friends.
Yes, I travel around the world in  every 2 years, and I  have my Rules, when I go to another country:
1) Do not carry your PRESS Card/ PRESS BADGE ( Although you are the Press Photographer), That is the Sign of spies , who try to dig the Bad press/ Bad News in that Country ( Police state)---You might lose your Vacation time in the local Jail.
2) In the Night time, Leave the Big cameras and Big Lens with the Vault of the Hotel Manager's Office or With your Wife, who do not want to go with you.---Just Carry and Shoot the Photos with $ 150 US Dollars Cheap Pocket , Point and Shoot Camera .---IF the Bad Guy want them, Just ask very Polite to get the Memory Card Back, And Give some money to the Bad Guy to buy the New Memory card---And that will very safe from getting hurt.
3), Before you leave the Hotel to shoot in the early morning or night time for Beautiful Sunset/ Sun rise---Talk to the Hotel Manager , to hire the out of Duty Local staff./ Local Security Guard to go with you---Yes, Still use Cheap Point and Shoot Camera----Because the Hired guards , might have the Bad Friends , who need  your Big Cameras and Big Lens that he see in that morning----when you check in the Hotel.
4) Go every where in another country, with the group of friends, or the big group of tourists---NEVER GO ALONE with your Big Gears, Yes, You might be disappear from the earth that day.
5), You Might get the Second spare Camera in the Backpack-----In-case of the Police Watch you take the photos of Beautiful Police station, Airport, or the Beautiful Palace, And That police do not like you, He might ask to see your Photos in the Camera, AND HIS HANDS too shake---He might Drop your Camera by Accident, And He might say Sorry to you---Yes, The Big Lens is Damaged and Your Big Camera is Gone too---Yes, You still have another Camera in your Back pack= That still good news.
6) YES, Before you shoot any Place, Try to see the Guards, or Police around there, and Ask Permission to take the Photos---Although, You try to shoot the  Beautiful Toilet Building, Yes, You might Shoot the Very Important People , who just use that Toilet, And That Might be 1-2 Night in the Jail time, If the guy see you take his Photo.
7) never use Your I-Phone or the Smart Phone take any Photos---Yes, These Phone are very High cost in another country, and every one want them---If Some one do not like you use that Phone take the Photos, They might Grab your I-Phone and Run-----Too bad, They/ He run faster than you.
8) Never Put your Backpack under the table , when you in the restaurant, and try to go to the bath room, Yes, When you come back = Your bag is gone.
9) I love my KATA 3 in 1-30 Backpack--That I can modify the Belt and use as Front sling Bag, Keep my backpack on my front part of the Belly all the time, Day or night----OR I Wrap around my backpack with the Stainless steel  Net Protection, From The Razor Blade or Box cutter from the Bad people.
10) Never drink any water from the glass---Just buy the Bottle water and keep with you all the time.

Enjoy my 2 cents Tricks that I use past 30 years, and just all the Good thing happens to me on all trip around the world.
Surapon Sujjavanich, AIA, CPS Gold Member
Apex, NC., USA.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 02:42:53 PM by surapon »

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2013, 02:18:57 PM »