October 21, 2014, 06:44:36 PM

Author Topic: Reprimanded for a photograph  (Read 14073 times)

Skulker

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2013, 02:45:45 PM »

I wouldn;t not have thought this shot worth the hassle.
I wouldn't have been confident about the cultural norms of photographing an exposed part of an otherwise concealed body.
I don't speak arabic.
I don't know the law.
I just wouldn't do it.
On a personal basis.
 

Agreed

+ when I'm traveling I like to respect the laws, traditions and culture of my hosts. Not much evidence of this going on in this shot. Clearly many locals would have found it offensive.
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2013, 02:45:45 PM »

anthonyd

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2013, 03:00:19 PM »
A picture of a person, taken in public, does not capture anything that the person did not choose to show in the first place (unless we are taking about extraordinary circumstances, like a person falling, etc, that does not apply to the OP).
If the lady did not want her shoes to be seen, she would not have put such shoes on, or her husband/father/mother/whatever would have not let her put them on.  I don't see why random people looking at her shoes is ok, but someone photographing them is not.  Call me culturally insensitive, but I honestly don't see the difference between "seeing" and "photographing" -- and just wait for google glass 3.0, that will be a brain implant :)

Regarding the advice "make sure the person knows you are taking a picture of them", I'm sorry, but that doesn't always work.  I have personally traveled all over Europe, the US and a couple of places in China and I always make sure the person sees me when I take a picture of them (so they have the opportunity to say, or nod, "no", which I always respect).  However, in the OP what was the photographer supposed to do? Run to the lady and tell her: "sorry to interrupt, but can you please keep walking the way you were just walking before, so I can take a picture of your contrasting shoes/dress"? c'mong now.

My view is simple: if you are hiding and/or taking a picture of a person showing them in a way they might have not wished to be seen, then you are not playing nice.  If you are capturing something that everybody is seeing and the subject is aware of the visibility, well ... it's fair game.

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2013, 03:31:44 PM »
Yes, If you in USA, and take the Photos in USA ---Hear are the Rules/ Laws

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

But Please do not use this Laws/ Rules any where else in the World, Because_______________
Enjoy
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TexPhoto

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2013, 03:38:46 PM »

  Let me ask the OP this: Why didn't you approach the woman and show her your great photo?  Ask her to pose for you? If what you did was "culturally sensitive", why did you have to be secretive?




To speak, or not to speak, of the Emporer's new clothes:

The wearer in the photo is apparently content to be seen so attired in a public place (the Dubai Mall) frequented by visitors from all over the world.

The inter-net is "a public place frequented by visitors from all over the world".

I think the photo captures a "fact" of life.

I find the contrast between the traditional and the contemporary interesting.

If a certain religious sect dyed their children's' hair green, that also might be considered "interesting".

If the group considered any notice taking or comment by "unbelievers" about their green-hair custom sufficient justification for violence, …that too would be "interesting".

It would also be good reason to be "secretive" (as a previous poster seemed to disapprove of) when drawing attention to or discussing the sect's practices.

If the sect's (or any other group's) preferences were to be the determinant of what was to be known by the rest of the world, the general knowledge-pool would be seriously restricted.

I support the anti-censorship faction, and applaud the photographer, …but advise caution.

You are missing the point.  I am not saying don't take the photo.  I am saying don't take the photo and then try to portray your self as "culturally sensitive" when you have obviously broken a written (and well known) rule of that culture!  And had that explained to you by your "part of that culture" guide. 

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2013, 03:40:36 PM »
A picture of a person, taken in public, does not capture anything that the person did not choose to show in the first place (unless we are taking about extraordinary circumstances, like a person falling, etc, that does not apply to the OP).
If the lady did not want her shoes to be seen, she would not have put such shoes on, or her husband/father/mother/whatever would have not let her put them on.  I don't see why random people looking at her shoes is ok, but someone photographing them is not.  Call me culturally insensitive, but I honestly don't see the difference between "seeing" and "photographing" -- and just wait for google glass 3.0, that will be a brain implant :)

Regarding the advice "make sure the person knows you are taking a picture of them", I'm sorry, but that doesn't always work.  I have personally traveled all over Europe, the US and a couple of places in China and I always make sure the person sees me when I take a picture of them (so they have the opportunity to say, or nod, "no", which I always respect).  However, in the OP what was the photographer supposed to do? Run to the lady and tell her: "sorry to interrupt, but can you please keep walking the way you were just walking before, so I can take a picture of your contrasting shoes/dress"? c'mong now.

My view is simple: if you are hiding and/or taking a picture of a person showing them in a way they might have not wished to be seen, then you are not playing nice.  If you are capturing something that everybody is seeing and the subject is aware of the visibility, well ... it's fair game.

Its complicated.  Taking the photos is often allowed, but posting them on the internet can be invasion of privacy, and posting them on a for profit site where the site makes money based on photos posted there might run into more legal difficulties.
 
A photo should not be posted on the internet without written permission.  In some Muslim countries, they will attack or even jail the woman who didn't even know here photo was taken. 
 

sdsr

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2013, 04:09:36 PM »
A picture of a person, taken in public, does not capture anything that the person did not choose to show in the first place (unless we are taking about extraordinary circumstances, like a person falling, etc, that does not apply to the OP).
If the lady did not want her shoes to be seen, she would not have put such shoes on, or her husband/father/mother/whatever would have not let her put them on.  I don't see why random people looking at her shoes is ok, but someone photographing them is not.  Call me culturally insensitive, but I honestly don't see the difference between "seeing" and "photographing"


But some do see a difference.  The Amish, for instance, tend to view photographs as graven images, don't like having their photographs taken, and disapprove of portrait photography.

http://www.padutchcountry.com/towns-and-heritage/amish-country/amish-and-photographs.asp

Fortunately for those who don't respect their views, they're also pacifists....

Larry

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2013, 05:06:08 PM »
In some Muslim countries, they will attack or even jail the woman who didn't even know here (sic) photo was taken.

One should be careful about accepting "facts" posted on the inter-net, but the very thought of such a practice must make a civilized person's jaw drop. Outrage is a very mild description for what I feel about the idea.

If it is in fact a result of the teachings of some religion, ..."respecting" that religion is incomprehensible to me.
Respect should not be a blank check.

Brutal behavior by any name is not a rose.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 05:09:17 PM by Larry »

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2013, 05:06:08 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2013, 05:50:34 PM »
The people's of the world do not share one set of beliefs. Weather we like it or not, foreign nations differ from ours and some of the rights we take for granted do not exist there.

It is one thing to disagree with those beliefs, it is another thing to travel to that country and violate those beliefs, potentially making yourself into a martyr and harming innocents through your outrage.....

Even here in Canada, there have been several " honor killings" in the last few years committed by people from other cultures. To us, it is abhorrent, to them it is not. In several countries women have been know to spontaneously combust.... And the authorities look the other way....  In some countries you can be killed for going to school.... None of this is right by American or European standards, but it happens. The world is not all sweetness and flowers.
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wsmith96

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2013, 05:59:26 PM »
when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
What I do today is important because I am exchanging a day of my life for it.

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2013, 06:16:27 PM »
Taking photos of women in Oman and UAE is a sensitive issue (so I didn't), but the men are a proud people and although protective of their women, will gladly pose for you! Despite being generally apprehensive about people photography myself I took some really great shots. Truly a fantastic destination:









And I love this shot especially (It's now a canvas in my dining room):



Did he mind??? This is what happened when I asked him if it was ok to take his photo:



More:

http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/reizen/oman-uae-2010/
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 06:19:22 PM by mrsfotografie »
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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2013, 06:23:43 PM »
And one more just for the fun of it. I'm definitely going to travel to Oman and UAE some more!!!

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Don Haines

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2013, 06:25:50 PM »
Taking photos of women in Oman and UAE is a sensitive issue (so I didn't), but the men are a proud people and although protective of their women, will gladly pose for you! Despite being generally apprehensive about people photography myself I took some really great shots. Truly a fantastic destination:


Nice pics! See what happens when you ask nicely :)
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mkabi

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Re: Your friend's advice was excellent
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2013, 06:31:28 PM »

When I showed it to my expat host, he said that I should be careful and not publicise this photo since, ‘Here, we are not free to do things as you would do in the West’.  This seemed rather odd.  I have travelled extensively and I think I am culturally sensitive.

Oh how naive you are! I find it best to be very respectful of a country's laws and social norms - I leave pushing the boundaries to the locals. This is kinda what culturally sensitive means.

From the Dubai Code of Conduct, written by the Dubai Executive Council and linked to on the official Dubai web portal (scroll to bottom of page) http://dubai.ae/en/Lists/Articles/DispForm.aspx?ID=147

4.5. Photography:

Photos of people - and especially photos of women and families - in public places shall not be taken without their permission. Taking photos of people is a sensitive issue in Dubai's local culture.


So you've got a photo of a woman wearing sexy shoes and showing her ankles & taken without her permission. Your only defence is "it doesn't show her face/she's not identifiable".

Your friend's advice was excellent.

I think they put this rule in place, because the majority follow Islam (???correct me if I am wrong).

I'm not muslim, but I have muslim friends and I vaguely remember one of them saying that they don't take pictures. In general, go to their homes, you won't see any family pictures, nothing. It has something to do with what the Qu'ran says... I think one of them told me that it reduces their lifespan by so many years. Its like our scientifically proven belief that smoking will reduce our lifespan... every cigarette you partake will reduce your lifespan by so many years. Similarly, every picture you take of yourself will reduce your lifespan by so many years... (again, any muslim members here want to correct me if I am wrong?)


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Re: Your friend's advice was excellent
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2013, 06:31:28 PM »

jdramirez

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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2013, 06:31:42 PM »

2) In the Night time, Leave the Big cameras and Big Lens with the Vault of the Hotel Manager's Office or With your Wife, who do not want to go with you.---Just Carry and Shoot the Photos with $ 150 US Dollars Cheap Pocket , Point and Shoot Camera .---IF the Bad Guy want them, Just ask very Polite to get the Memory Card Back, And Give some money to the Bad Guy to buy the New Memory card---And that will very safe from getting hurt.


So where are you from?  I know Americans are often accused, to include myself, of being overly aggressive and confrontational... but if someone wants my gear, they better be better armed than me.  If it is even, I'm looking for a reason to crack some skulls. 

Give him money to buy a memory card... I don't want to be offensive... so I won't say a thing.
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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2013, 07:25:50 PM »
There is nothing interesting, new or, if I am very honest, very good about this picture at all.

Anyone that spends a reasonable time in the Middle East, especially some of the more "cosmopolitan" places like Dubai - and I use that term liberally - see such things every day in shopping malls.

Taking a picture of someone's shoes like that is really rather culturally insensitive. It makes me think of those guys that try to get pictures up women's skirts as they go up escalators, or as they are seated. Sure, it is not the same subject matter but, that does not make it right either.
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Re: Reprimanded for a photograph
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2013, 07:25:50 PM »