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Author Topic: 7d or Mark II for filming?  (Read 13799 times)

FunkyJam

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7d or Mark II for filming?
« on: September 11, 2011, 03:01:59 PM »
Hey,

Im about to upgrade my camera but I'm not quiet sure which one is the right one for me. Here is the deal, as I study tv and cinema I need a camera for filming but I also enjoy taking pictures(that's why I won't buy a handy cam or something). So my problem comes when I don't know which one to choose. I heard the Mark II better but is the 600€ worth the difference? Anyone has both or used both? Please help me out Thank you in advance  ;)

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7d or Mark II for filming?
« on: September 11, 2011, 03:01:59 PM »

NormanBates

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2011, 03:19:12 PM »
* 7D, 60D, 600D, 550D have exactly the same sensor and processor, and deliver exactly the same image quality in video mode; 5D2 is slightly better, but lacks 720p50/720p60, which you'd use for overcranking (slow motion) (maybe not too important: 720p has awful aliasing/moire, even worse than 1080p); 1D4 is slightly worse than any of the others (except if you shoot with extremely low light)

* 5D2, 60D, 600D, 550D can be modded with Magic Lantern, which is absolutely awesome: custom cropmarks, zebras, live histogram or waveform while recording, peaking, focus aid (zoom-in) while recording, etc; and also manual gain for audio, and increased bitrate, which I've never used; the 7D can't be modded

* 5D2 and 7D have magnessium body with weather sealing; the 60D and 600D have a great swivel screen (which is really, really great for video, just make sure you get a loupe that supports it)

* 5D2 takes the best stills; 7D has the best focusing system; 60D, 600D, 550D lack autofocus microadjustment, which can be a huge issue for stills if you actually want to use AF (which I don't) (there's no autofocus while recording video anyway, except for some magic lantern hack that I've never used)

and anyway, that's all about the canons; right now, sony seems to be doing a bit better: the first tests I've seen from the tiny nex-5n looks awesome; stuff from the nex-7, A65 and A77 could be even better (as in: even less aliasing/moire)

akiskev

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2011, 03:26:00 PM »
7D has a sensor which is very close to Super 35 cinema format (you may want that). 5D II has a much bigger sensor.
With 7D you can shoot at 60fps, which means you can have smooth slow motion.
Canon 600D/60D have the same movie recording specs with 7D and also a swivel screen, which is very useful for video (given that you don't want to invest on a seperate screen).
The 600D is the only camera that has a 3-10x digital zoom available with Full HD recording and does not use interpolation so the quality doesn't drop!

If I were you, I'd buy a 600D (same sensor with 7D, more video friendly though) and invest the extra money to lenses.
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elflord

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2011, 04:25:18 PM »
Im about to upgrade my camera but I'm not quiet sure which one is the right one for me. Here is the deal, as I study tv and cinema I need a camera for filming but I also enjoy taking pictures(that's why I won't buy a handy cam or something). So my problem comes when I don't know which one to choose. I heard the Mark II better but is the 600€ worth the difference? Anyone has both or used both? Please help me out Thank you in advance  ;)

When pricing the two cameras, you need to figure out which lenses you will buy and include that in the price. The price jump to full frame is likely to be steeper than the sticker price alone because you can't use the cheaper EF-S lenses and several consumer lenses which work well with APS-C struggle in the corners of the larger sensor.

Another reason to consider glass in the price is that it will have a much more profound effect on your picture quality than the choice of body. You're looking at the two top of the line cameras but didn't write anything about your budget.

As for which is better -- they are very different cameras. The 7D is more modern, and faster (faster burst speed, better autofocus) -- good for shooting sports. The full frame is better for shallow depth of field and high ISO -- excellent for portraits and low light photography.

Again I don't know what your budget is but unless you have a lot of money left over after the kit lens plus body, or you have a specific reason for choosing the 7D over the 60D (for example), I'd take a long hard look at the 60D and the 600D. Price out a few different setups on a fixed budget and you'll probably find that you can get a better setup (e.g. including lenses, possibly a flash) with a less expensive body.

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2011, 04:29:07 PM »
Hi FunkyJam,

I have 5D Mark II and 7D as well as a recently acquired 1D Mark IV (though have not yet used the latter for video other than a quick test).  If my primary use were video I would choose a 7D as I have found the focussing to be superior for this purpose (and quicker for stills) and have found that most people who have used the two have found success in using the 7D but many lost focus on the 5DII.

I would however say that for overall quality of stills the 5D beats the 7D especially above ISO 400. On like for like settings the 5D with high ISO noise reduction set on low or disabled the 5D provides more detail and on the 7D it is a choice between loss of detail with the filter and noise.  This is not bad noise, just more than there is on the 7D.

I would agree with the comments that articulated screens could be useful and will save you money. However, if you are going to buy non canon lens then it will typically be more important that you have a body with micro focus adjustment (50D (but no video), 7D and 5DII) . All the more if you intend to make use of shallow depth of field.  What will give you the greatest improvement will be lens selection.  If you are going 7D or any 1.6 crop with that sensor level you will even more need the sharper lenses to get the best out of it.   i.e. 70-200 F/4 or 70-200 F/4 IS or 70-200 F/2.8 IS Mk II.   

So I would tend to use the extra 600 euros towards a 70-200 F/4 or better.  If you need a wider angle F/2.8 then perhaps get a 7D Body with no kit lens and a Tamron 18-50mm F/2.8 (non VC).  Nearly as good as a 17-55mm F/2.8 and a lot cheaper.

Hope this helps.

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2011, 05:34:51 PM »
None of the Cannon cameras have autofocus while filming, so its a waste of time to worry about autofocus lenses for video.  However, for the stills, autofocus is very useful.

I have a 5D MK II and a 7D.  The 5D MK II will let you give images a shallow depth of field that a 7D cannot.  The 5D also has some features missing in the 7d.

If you want to take serious videos handheld, a Canon DSLR is probably not the best.  Having to twist the focus ring while holding the camera out in front of you is difficult and frustrating.

As much as I dislike Sony as a company, their newest DSLR does seem to be a big step ahead for making videos over the 7D or other Canon DSLR's.  It will autofocus as well as do some of the things video makers want.  Everything is a compromise, and it is said that Sony has solved the sensor overheating problems with the A55, so I'd look at it.  IQ wise, it uses a lot more compression of the video than Canon, so the images may turn out to have a lot of compression artifacts, I haven't seen a analysis of this yet.

Have a look at it, its certainly ahead of the competition in video, at least for now.

Editing .MHT video might be a issue as of right now, but editors will surely be coming soon.

TexPhoto

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2011, 07:40:16 PM »
I'd buy a 60D now, and a 5DIII 6-12 months after they come out.  When they are a little off retail price.

My 7D will autofocus while filming btw.  You press the little AF-ON button and it focuses.  You'd never really want to use it  though because it's very loud and hunts a little before finding focus, but it does work.   

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2011, 07:40:16 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2011, 09:29:56 PM »
I'd buy a 60D now, and a 5DIII 6-12 months after they come out.  When they are a little off retail price.

My 7D will autofocus while filming btw.  You press the little AF-ON button and it focuses.  You'd never really want to use it  though because it's very loud and hunts a little before finding focus, but it does work.

My 7D does not autofocus while filming, try filming a soccer player running toward you, and see if the focus follows him / her?  You can focus it and mess up the image if it focuses at the new spot, but the moving subject has moved on by then.  Of course, if its a static scene and nothing is moving, you do not need autofocus in the first place.  That would make a pretty boring video though.

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2011, 10:59:21 PM »
My 7D will autofocus while filming btw.  You press the little AF-ON button and it focuses.  You'd never really want to use it  though because it's very loud and hunts a little before finding focus, but it does work.   

I Think your confusing finding an Auto Focus Point to Auto Focus while filming.

The AF-On button will grab a focus point but its designed to grab the focus of the scene, then once it has been found you start filming and then manually focus from that point on.
Yes, i shoot video on a DSLR.

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2011, 11:14:21 PM »
My 7D will autofocus while filming btw.  You press the little AF-ON button and it focuses.  You'd never really want to use it  though because it's very loud and hunts a little before finding focus, but it does work.   

I Think your confusing finding an Auto Focus Point to Auto Focus while filming.

The AF-On button will grab a focus point but its designed to grab the focus of the scene, then once it has been found you start filming and then manually focus from that point on.
\
I'm quite aware of how my 7d and my 5D MK II work.  My original post said autofocus whil filming.  When I say autofocus during filming, it is about continuous autofocus during filming, as required for motion, not the 7D focus which, as you say, is done before you film to set the starting point, but is useless during filming. 

The Sony A77 has continuous phase detect autofocus while filming, which may have some faults, but Canon does not do it at all.  I recently tried to film a Rodeo with my 7D as well as taking stills.  It was totally impossible for me to manually focus the barrel racers as they dashstraight at me, or evern parallel to me as well.  I could barely get good focus for stills while one is moving at me at full tilt.

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2011, 03:16:35 AM »
5D2 vs. 60D (same sensor as 7D) - I own both:

- 5D2 Video detail is better (better resolution)
- 5D2 Aliaising is less severe
- 5D2 Video looks cleaner and less "dirty"
- 5D2 Has more latitude on video

Needless to say that as a result of this different, I use 60D for stills and 5D2 for video.
On low light the difference is less pronounced, but the difference is large when the scene is properly lit (and 5D2 starts to look awesome whereas 60D doesn't).

I have also found that 5D2 can be used with Technicolor picture style, but 60D loses too many bits.

If you compare to camcorders: 5D2 is much closer to Panasonic AF100 or Sony FS100 than 60D or other equivalents with the same sensor and chip are. Obviously you can't get 60p like from the Sony though and aliasing is a bit more visible than on Sony where it is not completely absent either. In the 5D2 the aliasing can be pretty much cured with antialiasing filter from Mosaic engineering.

I hereby do not recommend 60D (or maybe not even 7D) for video. 5D2 is superior. Unless the 7D does better video than 60D for some unknown reason.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 03:25:20 AM by catz »

NormanBates

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2011, 10:51:12 AM »
sony A65 autofocus-during-video-recodring test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XsgytiAhEI
no other DSLR will come anywhere close to these new sonys in this area...

FunkyJam

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 11:21:51 AM »
Well, I got around 2100€ to spend on a body and on lenses. I was thinking in getting a 5DII body and a 50 mm 1.8. My other option is a 7D with the kit lense (18-135 IS if Im not mistaken) and  a 50 1.8. The reason Im willing to buy a 50mm 1.8 is because I've heard/seen it gives very nice shallow depth of field on videos and stills.  What do you think?

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 11:21:51 AM »

TexPhoto

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2011, 12:27:19 PM »
Hey guys, I did not say my 7d was great at focusing while filming, or that it would track fast moving soccer players, or F-18 fighter jets approaching at mach 2 for that matter.  I said it would focus while filming, and it does.

I thought it was interesting that it does this when the AF-ON button is pressed, but my 5DII does not.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 12:40:23 PM by TexPhoto »

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 01:20:25 PM »
Hey,

Im about to upgrade my camera but I'm not quiet sure which one is the right one for me. Here is the deal, as I study tv and cinema I need a camera for filming but I also enjoy taking pictures(that's why I won't buy a handy cam or something). So my problem comes when I don't know which one to choose. I heard the Mark II better but is the 600€ worth the difference? Anyone has both or used both? Please help me out Thank you in advance  ;)

Personally, I prefer a full size sensor over a crop one. You can usually pick out a video that used a crop sized sensor, although the 7D may have a imaging quality similar to the 5D it's window just seems smaller.

What's going to kill you is not the camera itself but all the items necessary to make the 5D or 7D functional as a 'video' platform. Follow focus, follow focus gears, video rig, lenses, tripod, fluid video head, external monitor, glidecam, etc, all these items end up costing more than the camera.

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Re: 7d or Mark II for filming?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 01:20:25 PM »