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Author Topic: Need daily lens suggestion  (Read 4902 times)

farmdwg

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2013, 11:58:44 AM »
Hijacking my own thread...

So I'm getting a lot of vibes on FF...

What does a used 5DMkii vs new 7d do here? Am I crazy? Can I do sports with the 5D?

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2013, 11:58:44 AM »

dstppy

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2013, 12:04:07 PM »
Hijacking my own thread...

So I'm getting a lot of vibes on FF...

What does a used 5DMkii vs new 7d do here? Am I crazy? Can I do sports with the 5D?

FPS was the only real advantage the 7D currently has IIRC.

The Mark 2 will most likely have something to reposition itself . . . if it wants to survive, but the 5DmkIII is a real charmer, once we all got past the sticker price  :o
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7enderbender

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2013, 12:05:27 PM »
It think you are pretty much set with the 7D and the 70-200 for the sports stuff. So that leaves you with the question what else you're going to do with the camera.

Lot's of advice here based on people's own preferences but I'm not clear yet what your other use may look like. Do you have a need for wide angle (such as architecture, landscape, etc)? Do you have any use for fast lenses (and to me that means control over depth of field and not so much being able to make pictures in the dark...)? Will you try to shoot portraits and if so what is your preferred focal length for that? Again, how important is good "bokeh" for you? Is weight and size a concern? Do you want to get into flash photography or not at all?

So in other words I'd be very careful with some of the blanket statements here about what constitutes "general purpose" use. Everyone has a very different view of that I suppose. And some of this is always a compromise - especially with the limitations of a cropped sensor if you answered "yes" to any of the questions above...

I personally would always go with the fastest lens I could afford in the desired focal range. But that's me and may be completely irrelevant for your preferences.
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farmdwg

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2013, 12:10:58 PM »
It think you are pretty much set with the 7D and the 70-200 for the sports stuff. So that leaves you with the question what else you're going to do with the camera.

Lot's of advice here based on people's own preferences but I'm not clear yet what your other use may look like. Do you have a need for wide angle (such as architecture, landscape, etc)? Do you have any use for fast lenses (and to me that means control over depth of field and not so much being able to make pictures in the dark...)? Will you try to shoot portraits and if so what is your preferred focal length for that? Again, how important is good "bokeh" for you? Is weight and size a concern? Do you want to get into flash photography or not at all?

So in other words I'd be very careful with some of the blanket statements here about what constitutes "general purpose" use. Everyone has a very different view of that I suppose. And some of this is always a compromise - especially with the limitations of a cropped sensor if you answered "yes" to any of the questions above...

I personally would always go with the fastest lens I could afford in the desired focal range. But that's me and may be completely irrelevant for your preferences.

Thank you for the insight.

Being outdoors and shooting the sports is priority #1. However, I do know that once I get into the gear I will want to explore other options. Landscape, portraits, etc. When not shooting sports, I do know that I want to take photos that pop and have that "gooey" feeling when not in focus.

Please be gentle, I'm coming over from a very old Nikon D70 with bad glass.

7enderbender

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2013, 12:11:13 PM »
Hijacking my own thread...

So I'm getting a lot of vibes on FF...

What does a used 5DMkii vs new 7d do here? Am I crazy? Can I do sports with the 5D?


Yes you can. No, the AF is not quite as good as on the 7D or any of the newer FF bodies. But it is plenty good and gets a bad rep unnecessarily. Like I stated in my other posting, my preference is fast primes for mostly people photography. I'm a sucker for shallow DOF so I'd choose a 5DII any day over any crop camera. And I'd rule out a 6D also, but that's a whole other topic. Still very happy with my 5DII and have no intentions to upgrade before it falls apart.

That being said: if your most frequent and most important use really is sports than a 7D may still be the better choice. Like I said it's always a bit of a compromise even if money were no issue. There are always trade-offs.
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Jim O

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2013, 12:44:17 PM »
Hijacking my own thread...

So I'm getting a lot of vibes on FF...

What does a used 5DMkii vs new 7d do here? Am I crazy? Can I do sports with the 5D?

You can get a 5D2 refurb from Canon for around $1760, so a bit more than a 7D new. Of course a Canon refurb 7D is currently $999 shipped at Adorama today.

There are pros and cons of each. For sports and action, I think the 7D is the superior camera. For landscapes and nature, the 5D2 may be better, unless you're trying to capture birds in flight or a running gazelle. The 7D has dual DIGIC 4 processors, hence why it can acquire and process more images quickly. Neither has a DIGIC 5+ processor as do the 1D-X, 5D3, and 6D.

I have handled both and honestly the 7D feels better in my hands.

Of course, and despite what the naysayers here might say, you *can* shoot sports with a 6D. It is certainly not be the best tool for the job, but for anything other than situations where you need to shoot 6-8 fps, its IQ kills the 7D and beats the 5D2, IMMHO. Both of the those two have better AF than the 6D, except in extremely low light, where the 6D's center point is the best in the business. When my kids were young I had an AE-1 Program that I manually focused and I managed with a motor drive that was 4 fps at best. I used fast film, aperture priority, and have lots of good prints... and memories. With its excellent high ISO IQ, you can use a smaller aperture to get increased depth of field, use the center point, or even MF. and you *will* get lots of good shots.

Incidentally, a refurbished 6D with a full one year warranty can be had from Canon for $1599.

http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductListingViewAll_10051_10051_-1_29252

Did I help muddy the waters?
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dstppy

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2013, 01:07:06 PM »
Hijacking my own thread...

So I'm getting a lot of vibes on FF...

What does a used 5DMkii vs new 7d do here? Am I crazy? Can I do sports with the 5D?


Yes you can. No, the AF is not quite as good as on the 7D or any of the newer FF bodies. But it is plenty good and gets a bad rep unnecessarily. Like I stated in my other posting, my preference is fast primes for mostly people photography. I'm a sucker for shallow DOF so I'd choose a 5DII any day over any crop camera. And I'd rule out a 6D also, but that's a whole other topic. Still very happy with my 5DII and have no intentions to upgrade before it falls apart.

That being said: if your most frequent and most important use really is sports than a 7D may still be the better choice. Like I said it's always a bit of a compromise even if money were no issue. There are always trade-offs.
*slaps forehead*  He said Mark 2.

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2013, 01:07:06 PM »

Stig

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2013, 01:25:56 PM »
It think you are pretty much set with the 7D and the 70-200 for the sports stuff. So that leaves you with the question what else you're going to do with the camera.

Lot's of advice here based on people's own preferences but I'm not clear yet what your other use may look like. Do you have a need for wide angle (such as architecture, landscape, etc)? Do you have any use for fast lenses (and to me that means control over depth of field and not so much being able to make pictures in the dark...)? Will you try to shoot portraits and if so what is your preferred focal length for that? Again, how important is good "bokeh" for you? Is weight and size a concern? Do you want to get into flash photography or not at all?

So in other words I'd be very careful with some of the blanket statements here about what constitutes "general purpose" use. Everyone has a very different view of that I suppose. And some of this is always a compromise - especially with the limitations of a cropped sensor if you answered "yes" to any of the questions above...

I personally would always go with the fastest lens I could afford in the desired focal range. But that's me and may be completely irrelevant for your preferences.

+1

and to the discussion of EF-S vs EF and trading... I think that maybe specially people who don't make much money from photography do it as a hobby and then don't look at lenses as an "investment" and if you can have the right lens for a few years and lose $100 in the mean time, isn't it worth it? you couldn't even rent it for a long time for that money... so If you want investment buy... I don't know, Canon shares before you send them money for the lens  :) but that is a discussion for some other forum, I just think that its like buying big all terrain tires for your roadster, because you might buy an SUV in future

btw, other options... you mentioned landscape, probably no need for a very fast lens there, but you might want wide...portraits, if I may, I would suggest the 50mm f/1.8 (an equivalent of 80mm on FF, not a bad FL, good price and it would work on FF as well  ;) )...

Of course, and despite what the naysayers here might say, you *can* shoot sports with a 6D. It is certainly not be the best tool for the job, but for anything other than situations where you need to shoot 6-8 fps, its IQ kills the 7D and beats the 5D2, IMMHO
+1
and out of curiosity... the sports you will cover, you mentioned football and baseball, so I'm thinking outdoors, but are they mostly held midday, or also evenings, if so, are they well or poorly lit? In other words, would you need to up the ISO and with that, do you care about a discussion "more cross type AF points vs higher ISOs / 7D vs 6D" for example?
6D,   350D,  24-105 f4,   50 f1.8, 135mm f2, 14mm f2.8, Sigma 70-300 f4-5.6,   430EX II,   Godox TT520,   etc...

wsmith96

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2013, 02:48:19 PM »
farmdwg - one thing that I found that helps me decide is to go to 500px.com and type in the camera and lens in the search bar.   It gives me an idea of what the kit can do.  Most shots are professional quality shots with proper lighting, etc., but some of them look like they are non-pro (probably parents sitting on the sidelines) and you can see the IQ in those situations.

For example - go to that site and type in  "7d football 70-200"  in the search bar.  You can see some pro shots, but there are some of a high school football game at night, most likely from a parent.  There's also one at a Pro game in what appears to be a covered stadium.

Can't comment on the crop vs FF - that's almost a religious discussion, but if this helps, I can get acceptable shots of my kids sports and college games from my T1i with 3.4 FPS.  You won't get the wind up and the pitch though (more like wind up or pitch), but you can get the slide into home. 6D is 4.5 FPS.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 02:57:27 PM by wsmith96 »
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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2013, 03:37:49 PM »
Hijacking my own thread...

So I'm getting a lot of vibes on FF...

What does a used 5DMkii vs new 7d do here? Am I crazy? Can I do sports with the 5D?

Yes, you can do sports with the 5D, but its AF is more limiting.  Taking pics at softball games was easy because the subject (batter swing/pitcher pitching) is not moving quickly/erratically or they're far enough that DOF is not that challenging.  Soccer was more of a challenge when the player gets close and their changing directions.  Tended to frame loose and use the center point for servo only.

phoyager

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2013, 04:17:41 PM »
What does a used 5DMkii vs new 7d do here? Am I crazy? Can I do sports with the 5D?
IMO you should stop this thought right now in his tracks, 'cause I doubt that you will be very happy with a 5D Mk II. While it's certainly possible to shoot nearly anything with any camera, the 5D2 certainly wouldn't be what I would choose to shoot sport, maybe with the exception of chess and Tai chi. ;)
I'm not saying that the 5D2 is a bad camera, but it wasn't designed for such use. Downsides are: low FPS and a AF which is far from ideal for fast moving objects and you would be more or less stuck with the center AF-point. Of course, if you know the sport very well and are able to anticipate the moment to release the shutter you can take excellent pictures, but the amount of keepers will be significantly lower than with a 7D. The full frame is another 'downside' if it comes to sports, 'cause you don't have the crop-factor and will need longer and more expensive lenses. 70-200 on a 1.6 APS-C results in framing equivalent to 112-320mm while on FF it's just 70-200. With a 7D you will also warmly welcome the AF with its 19 AF fields and sophisticated options.

It think you are pretty much set with the 7D and the 70-200 for the sports stuff. So that leaves you with the question what else you're going to do with the camera.

Lot's of advice here based on people's own preferences but I'm not clear yet what your other use may look like. Do you have a need for wide angle (such as architecture, landscape, etc)? Do you have any use for fast lenses (and to me that means control over depth of field and not so much being able to make pictures in the dark...)? Will you try to shoot portraits and if so what is your preferred focal length for that? Again, how important is good "bokeh" for you? Is weight and size a concern? Do you want to get into flash photography or not at all?

So in other words I'd be very careful with some of the blanket statements here about what constitutes "general purpose" use. Everyone has a very different view of that I suppose. And some of this is always a compromise - especially with the limitations of a cropped sensor if you answered "yes" to any of the questions above...

I personally would always go with the fastest lens I could afford in the desired focal range. But that's me and may be completely irrelevant for your preferences.

Thank you for the insight.

Being outdoors and shooting the sports is priority #1. However, I do know that once I get into the gear I will want to explore other options. Landscape, portraits, etc. When not shooting sports, I do know that I want to take photos that pop and have that "gooey" feeling when not in focus.

Please be gentle, I'm coming over from a very old Nikon D70 with bad glass.
+1 on what 7enderbender wrote.

For other stuff than sports the 5D2 has its upsides (better image quality at low ISO, 'sexier' depth of field), but since sport is your #1 priority and money is of relevance, I would - again - suggest that you go with the 7D. Otherwise I probably would suggest a 1D4 or a 5D3.
With the 7D you will have no problem "exploring other options" and can decide in a year or two if you want to change the body. Well, this brings us - again - to the topic of the sustainability of lenses... ;) Changing lanes is easier (and cheaper) if you don't have to consider the cost of new glass.  ;)
If you want to play with portraits, the 50/1.8 wouldn't be a bad choice, 'cause it's a rather cheap but not bad lens from what I hear (sorry, no personal experience with it.)
On the other hand if you want to try landscapes you probably should think about investing into a wide angle lens like to 10-22 or the Sigma 10-20.


farmdwg - one thing that I found that helps me decide is to go to 500px.com and type in the camera and lens in the search bar.   It gives me an idea of what the kit can do. [...] you can see the IQ in those situations.
Personally I would be very careful! Postprocessing can do A LOT to a image and this is much more valid when we are talking about 'online'-resolutions. It's a quick job to bring a bad image, be it because of the photogs skills, the lens and/or the camera, to a point where it looks fabulous, as long as viewed only on a screen at low resolution. Online galleries are swampy terrain when it comes to judge a photog or some gear.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 05:41:12 PM by phoyager »

wsmith96

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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2013, 05:52:58 PM »

farmdwg - one thing that I found that helps me decide is to go to 500px.com and type in the camera and lens in the search bar.   It gives me an idea of what the kit can do. [...] you can see the IQ in those situations.
Personally I would be very careful! Postprocessing can do A LOT to a image and this is much more valid when we are talking about 'online'-resolutions. It's a quick job to bring a bad image, be it because of the photogs skills, the lens and/or the camera, to a point where it looks fabulous, as long as viewed only on a screen at low resolution. Online galleries are swampy terrain when it comes to judge a photog or some gear.

I agree with you that it's not fool proof.  I figure that some level of post processing will be done at some point in the OP's workflow.  It was just a suggestion.
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Re: Need daily lens suggestion
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2013, 05:52:58 PM »