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Author Topic: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]  (Read 10657 times)

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1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« on: September 14, 2011, 10:46:32 AM »
1Ds Mark IV strikes again There is a lot of information floating through my inbox recently. Sorting through what is true, what is a wish and what is old recycled information is what keeps this site from getting boring.

There have been a couple of known sources say there is a lot of  ”misinformation” or “fragmented information” out there.  I dismiss highly detailed spec lists now, they’re just never true.

So why a post about a 1Ds Mark IV? Well, new information has come from a few sources and when you put it all together, we may be getting somewhere.

Here is a breakdown of specs and features I have received.

1Ds Mark IV Speculations

  • 30 mp (most likely 32)
  • 10fps (I have also heard 8)
  • DIGIC V (No word on number of processors)
  • 1D/1Ds Line Merged
  • Announced around the 3rd week of October with an April, 2012 delivery
  • The prototypes are/have been in the hands of Canon ambassadors

We did post recently that no DSLR would be coming in 2011, if I go by the above information, that’s still true with the April delivery. There can be grey areas with “announcement” and “delivery” when translating.

The first question I asked about the claimed MP and frame rate was; “Can you write to any cards that fast with 30 mp RAW files or would the camera have a giant buffer?” I haven’t heard back yet. I am also wondering if Canon figured out how to make a full frame sensor do 10fps. When speaking about APS-H in the 1D Mark IV, Canon themselves said they couldn’t recycle a full frame sensor fast enough to do 10fps. Hence Nikon’s 9fps on the D3/D3s.

Again, all of this is very vague and in my experience, vague is better.

cr

« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 10:48:08 AM by Canon Rumors »
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1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« on: September 14, 2011, 10:46:32 AM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 11:02:51 AM »
The question of pulling data off the sensor and saving to a card at 10fps has been something that camera manufacturers have likely been working on for years.  Now that we have video, pulling 60fps is also expected.

I believe that its just a matter co cost.  Schemes to pull data off sensors faster exist, but take more complex processors, and saving data to cards faster takes a faster processor and fast card.

All this ends up costing more and using a lot more power, which means more heat to be dissapated.  So, technology improvements is multiple areas is needed.  I expect that it is possible to speed up things with newer technology, but the tradeoffs with more cost, more power, and more heat are what will determine the technology we actually see.

Whatever it is, we will see more speed and more MP.

Anastas

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 11:14:51 AM »
Nikon D3/s are 9fps because process power, not because the mirror. They shoout 11fps on DX mode, but mirror is the same!

It's absolutely possible 1Ds to be 10fps!

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2011, 11:34:40 AM »
Nikon D3/s are 9fps because process power, not because the mirror. They shoout 11fps on DX mode, but mirror is the same!

It's absolutely possible 1Ds to be 10fps!

Yes, I thought the same thing at first.

But, you have to pull the data off the CMOS sensor, which does take time. The D3s can do 9fps at 12mp and 11fps and even less MP. I would think that at 30+mp we could be reaching some sort of physical limitation of getting the data off the sensor that fast.

How much of that, if any, is dependant on the processor?
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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 11:42:20 AM »
32 Mpix should be around 40MB per RAW image; multiply by 10 fps, and 400 MB/s sounds like really, really a lot, totally out of reach for a CF card and even for an SSD drive

but RAM is not that expensive... a 512MB chip costs about $3 (at least the ones you use in computers); they surely could put a few of those in a $6K body, right?

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2011, 12:33:10 PM »
32 Mpix should be around 40MB per RAW image; multiply by 10 fps, and 400 MB/s sounds like really, really a lot, totally out of reach for a CF card and even for an SSD drive

but RAM is not that expensive... a 512MB chip costs about $3 (at least the ones you use in computers); they surely could put a few of those in a $6K body, right?

All it needs is 4gb of Ram = 100 image buffer.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 12:35:06 PM »
A 32 MP FF sensor and 8 fps?  Sold!

Agree that there's a world of difference between 9 fps with the 12 MP D3s sensor and similar frame rates with Canon's higher-resolution FF sensor. 
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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 12:35:06 PM »

spam

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2011, 01:07:03 PM »
Getting 30+ MP off the sensor at 10 fps isn't a problem, you just need enough parallell lines out. A77 can do 12 frames per second. Not with 30Mp, but pretty close. The challanges are processing and storing. You can avoid the storage problem with a huge buffer, but any buffer will eventually go full if write speed is too slow. One easy way to double write speed is using two cards and alternate between the cards.

Processing should also be able to keep up. Moore's law predict a doubling of transistors in a chip every 18 months. That doesn't quite translate to a doubling of performance, but imaging processors certainly develop at a faster speed than pixel count increase. Algorithms are also improved and a Digic V certainly have a better design than the Digic IV that has been around for several years. However, we also expect more for each generation and Digic V needs to implement CA-removal and better video-downsampling than the current processor so some of the new transistors are bound to be used for new features and not higher speed. Anyway, a 1D-class camera can certainly use 2 or even more Digic chips so I can't really see that processing speed could be an issue.

davidpeter

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 01:11:30 PM »
I'm going to miss the APS-C format, if the 1D/1Ds lines are being merged. The 24-70 is soooo good with the 1.3x crop...

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 01:19:39 PM »
Long time visitor first time poster!

As has been pointed out using RAM as its memory buffer and a fast CPU will handle the picture from the sensor to buffer. And if using dual memory card slots it may meant for 10fps the system will write one image to one card and the next to the next. This taking the 400MB down to 200M per second. That is still a lot but by load balancing resources they can perform this task. Dual CPU, Dual RAM and Dual Memory makes it possible.

The most difficult part I believe would be the sensor and if it can succesffuly flush itself for the next image.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 01:22:02 PM »
I'm going to miss the APS-C format, if the 1D/1Ds lines are being merged. The 24-70 is soooo good with the 1.3x crop...

APS-H, you mean...
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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 01:31:20 PM »
I assume that if the 1D and !Ds are "merged", that will mean the end of the 1D. Canon will only have a FF pro body.
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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 01:37:40 PM »
Oh yes. This is great news. For me at least. I think 30+ mp is possible with 8-10 fps. If not, you could keep the file smaller to get more fps. The 5DII does 60fps using it's entire sensor at 720p. So Canon knows how the bind pixel to get higher fps.

When my 1DII was announced, no one believed it would be possible to get 8mp at 8fps. Canon did it anyway.

Let's wait and see, but I'm happy :)

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 01:37:40 PM »

RichFisher

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 01:39:20 PM »
I assume that if the 1D and !Ds are "merged", that will mean the end of the 1D. Canon will only have a FF pro body.

Hope that the new camera will be priced at 1D M4 introduction level ($5,000 US), not the  1Ds M3 level ($8,000 US).  That is a big difference - especially if you buy 2.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 01:42:03 PM »
I assume that if the 1D and !Ds are "merged", that will mean the end of the 1D. Canon will only have a FF pro body.

True, if true.  A 32 MP sensor running in an 'APS-H mode' for the FoV benefit of a cropped sensor would yield a 19 MP image, so that still 'improves' (as Canon seems to define it, i.e. more MPs) on the 1D IV's 16 MP sensor. 

Canon could certainly tie a frame rate to a crop mode, with 10 fps in crop mode (at 19 MP, and we know dual Digic IV can handle 18 MP at 8 fps, so should be no problem for Digic V especially dual), and a lower frame rate in FF mode.

Hope that the new camera will be priced at 1D M4 introduction level ($5,000 US), not the  1Ds M3 level ($8,000 US).

A vain hope.  If they merge them, I'd expect at least 1Ds MkIII pricing.

Frankly, I don't seem them merging the lines any time soon - they'll need to bring out something to sit in the large gap from $2500 to $8000.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 01:45:58 PM by neuroanatomist »
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Re: 1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 01:42:03 PM »