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Author Topic: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?  (Read 2781 times)

Firebird

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Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« on: August 23, 2013, 05:47:34 AM »
Hi everybody,

after years of absence from photography I'm about to start again. I will go for a 70D with the 18-135 mm IS STM kit lens first as this fits my current budget.

In the next two or three years I plan to add some L lenses and after that maybe a FF body (after the dual-pixel AF will made it into the FF bodies). 

Thats at least what I hope for, now for the reality check:

Is there any information available if
- Canon will put the dual-pixel AF into the FF bodies? And when?
- will Canon come out with L lenses using STM? And when?

Thanks!

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Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« on: August 23, 2013, 05:47:34 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2013, 06:46:00 AM »
There's no "information" about either, only speculation.  It is certainly possible, even probable, that we'll see a dual pixel CMOS AF full frame sensor in the future.  I highly doubt that we'll see STM focus motors in L-series lenses.  USM is faster for the same lens design, and possibly more accurate (not sure on that, but USM is 'closed loop' and most stepper motors are 'open loop' - not sure about Canon's STM).  Perhaps more importantly, the L-series lenses are 'professional', and AF during video (the raison d'ĂȘtre of STM lenses) is really more of a consumer thing - cinematographers use MF.
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Firebird

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2013, 07:29:49 AM »
Thanks for your reply!  :)

But would professional cinematographers use DLSR-Bodies at all? Wouldn't they use dedicated movie cameras?

And regarding the lens, Canon upgraded the D70 kit lens with the STM technology, why didn't they just use the USM technology which is already available for a couple of non-L lenses? Is STM cheaper to manufacture or does it have advantages over USM for movie/live-view... Maybe somebody with a 70D and a USM lens can check that out.


risc32

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2013, 08:15:57 AM »
as you might know, many big budget motion pictures and broadcast television shows have been shot in whole or in part with DSLRs. So while it's not Imax, it's being used for professional, commercial work. And you can be sure they are focusing manually.

polarhannes

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2013, 08:16:51 AM »
I have the shorty 40 (40mm f/2.8 STM) which I really like IQ-wise, but I rather don't like the STM in it.

It is louder than USM and it feels a lot slower to focus.
Don't know if this is a general STM issue or if it affects only the 40. Then again this is my only non-L lens so my expectations might be too high....

Don't know why they present STM as super-duper for video - If you don't use an external mic, you can clearly hear the STM while focussing (even while on MF as it is wired..). OTOH, I am not a video guy so I'd call my self a video noob.

At least for shooting stills, I really prefer USM.
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tcmatthews

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2013, 09:17:42 AM »
Dual-pixel AF is truly a ground braking technology it is likely that it will make its way to FF bodies.  But canon is a conservative company so I would not count on it anytime soon.

Not to hijack the thread.

I see the STM lens primarily as a replacement for Canons old stepper motor design.  I prefer them over the motor in the old 50 1.8 any day.  I believe they are closed loop or something equivalent so they do not hunt for focus like the old stepper motor lens.   STM is probably cheaper as well.   

I understand that they are quiet in video only in cameras that are designed to remove the focus sound. 


As for a L lens with STM  I seriously doubt it the new 24mm, 28mm ... IS lenses, If I am remembering correctly also have features that are designed to smooth focus on video.  But none of the entry level cameras can use the features as of yet. 
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Firebird

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2013, 09:39:10 AM »
Thanks guys, a lot of good points. For me all that means I will wait until I find out whether USM lens work well with the dual-pixel AF of the 70D in video mode. And if so, i'm going to buy a L lens instead of the STM kit lens.

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2013, 09:39:10 AM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2013, 10:33:46 AM »
Canon is putting STM into consumer lenses for two reasons.
1.  They are cheaper to make.
 
2.  They can be controlled to be smoother than the old micromotor design.
 
They are not as good as ultrasonic, but they are cheap.
 
They have a  big disadvantage, they are focus by wire motors, so you must have power to the lens in order to focus it. 

paul13walnut5

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2013, 04:01:45 PM »


But would professional cinematographers use DLSR-Bodies at all? Wouldn't they use dedicated movie cameras?


Before the Canon 5D2 people either used HDCAM, film or cameras like the RED, which were notoriously difficult to obtain and make work properly.

The 5D2 was cheap, had a wealth of great glass and had the large sensor look.  The likes of the Alexa, the Canon C's the Sony N's & F's all came in the wake of the 5D2, when the sought after large sensor look became widely available.

Now, a professional cinematographer would use a dedicated movie camera, but when the 5D2 came out it was a revelation.  Compact form, lightweight.  Not without certain caveats and limitations.  This is why they were and are used on features and high budget TV work.

Something like a sony f55 costs 1/5th of what a HDCAM cost.  THe HDCAM remains better for many situations, but the f55 is better for some others.  So now folk are going back to dedicated movie cameras, with proper audio connections and better ergonomics, simple WB procedures etc.

All that said.  The best camera in the world needs somebody who understands light to work it, and the pictures need to be cut in a cohesive narrative.  Whether its an Alexa or a 600D.

Don Haines

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2013, 05:30:23 PM »

But would professional cinematographers use DLSR-Bodies at all? Wouldn't they use dedicated movie cameras?
A professional will use the right tool for the job, be it a full camera/dolly/track, or be it a GoPro.... Everything has it's specific advantages and it's specific disadvantages. 
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2013, 10:17:24 PM »
Thanks for your reply!  :)

But would professional cinematographers use DLSR-Bodies at all? Wouldn't they use dedicated movie cameras?


Professional film makers and video makers have been using DSLR's for video since shortly after the 5D MK II came out. 
 
The reasons are many, but it boils down to Technical capability for the cost.  A whole industry supporting DSLR's and video has been launched, Canon is selling $50,000 video lenses, and has a large support facility in Hollywood for film makers.  Its big business, and rapidly growing.  The dual pixel capability along with touch screens means that a high priced focus puller may no longer be needed, just touch the actor or spot on the video LCD and the camera focus will smoothly shift to that point.  Add in facial recognition, and clever and innovative people and even more amazing things will be possible.

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Re: Will the dual-pixel AF make it to the FF bodies?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2013, 10:17:24 PM »