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Author Topic: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???  (Read 23012 times)

Hillsilly

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2013, 06:30:13 AM »
Would you hire a photographer shooting with M + adapter + EF/S lens for your wedding?

Failing to see the fundamental of M could end up in a long discussion ;)

An M shooting wedding photographer wouldn't automatically inspire me with confidence.  It is generally accepted that the FF DSLR is the standard for wedding photography and is what many people would expect.  Turning up with an M would certainly raise eyebrows.  I think if you intend using equipment that is perceived to be less professional, you'd want to be very good at what you do.
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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2013, 06:30:13 AM »

paul13walnut5

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2013, 06:55:57 AM »


An M shooting wedding photographer wouldn't automatically inspire me with confidence. It is generally accepted that the FF DSLR is the standard for wedding photography and is what many people would expect.  Turning up with an M would certainly raise eyebrows.  I think if you intend using equipment that is perceived to be less professional, you'd want to be very good at what you do.

By whom?

Anything less than a Hasselblad and they are wasting my time.

Seriously, most folk away from Canon Rumors will be sold on the portfolio, not on an anonymous looking black box that looks the same as any other anonymous black box.  They won't care if it's full frame or not, only that the photographer can work it, and match the standard of their portfolio for their special day.

An m might be stretching it, but as a back up camera... perhaps good insurance.

Disclosure:  I don't do wedding photography and never intend to. A lot of respect for my friends who do.
For my wedding I want a few straight portraits.  The happy couple.  The families.  Everybody, outside venue. No cakes.  No signings. No quirky angles.  No coy brides peeking out from behind trees or crap like that.  Straight group and single portraits, to a high technical and aesthetic standard.  Should take 10 minutes.  Let us get on with our day.  And no video (and I am a video guy)  The real fun and the best wedding photographs are taken by the guests.  At 10pm.  When everybody is relaxed and drunk.  The nice portraits will be on the wall.  It'll be the friends snaps that help us relive our day.  I don't care if these are on iphones, ixus or full frame.  So long as they are salacious, scandalous and maybe even a bit sexy.

To that end the main photographer can use whatever they deem fit.  It's a simple brief from me, and a nice wedge.

If they screw it up I'll have their legs broken for them.  From their point of view, an M might be less painful shoved up their backside than a 1DX.  I'll trust them to choose the tool for the job.  As far as photography goes, I'm a keen amateur.  I'm not so arrogant to tell them how to do their job, beyond what I expect the end result to be.

I work along side professional photographers on a very regular basis, friends from college and my days in camera retail have gone on to become occassional photographers.  I've never ever once heard that they must use full frame.  In fact one of the most talented (by my eye) would use nothing else other than a Fuji S3 or s5 Pro, as these were held to have the best skintone reproduction.

The curse of full frame nonsense talk strikes again. 


Dylan777

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2013, 09:06:40 AM »
Would you hire a photographer shooting with M + adapter + EF/S lens for your wedding?

Failing to see the fundamental of M could end up in a long discussion ;)

I'd hire a photographer who could deliver good results, and wouldn't worry about what equipment they use to do it.

Put it another way: would you hire a photographer who didn't have proper contingency plans? My big Canon is a 5D mark II and if it were to fail at an event, the M would still work with all my lenses and flashes. My previous backup was a 30D, and that's all it was good for. The M is great as an everyday carry camera (it's always in my bag) and for traveling. I'd be totally comfortable using it as a backup/second body.

I thought we are talking about gear?

I wouldn't trust any photographer, unless I see their works and gear. I WILL NOT hire a photographer shooting with M in my wedding(i hope my wife and kids not reading thread)

Don't expect everyone on dance floor to stop, so you can get focus. About the groom and bride walking the aisle? About bride throwing bouquet? You think the M focus is fast enough for those moments?

I expect pro shooter at least in FF + L lenses, that's why they get pay big bucks.
Just don't show up at wedding with 3ti or M + kit lenses and charge less, just to earn business. How often you see that?

Let be realistic here. The M is fun to carry around due to small size. Mount EF, EF-S, or L would take away "The Fundamental/Characteristics of this Camera".

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« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 09:33:19 AM by Dylan777 »
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paul13walnut5

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2013, 09:32:28 AM »
Would you hire a photographer shooting with M + adapter + EF/S lens for your wedding?

Failing to see the fundamental of M could end up in a long discussion ;)

I'd hire a photographer who could deliver good results, and wouldn't worry about what equipment they use to do it.

Put it another way: would you hire a photographer who didn't have proper contingency plans? My big Canon is a 5D mark II and if it were to fail at an event, the M would still work with all my lenses and flashes. My previous backup was a 30D, and that's all it was good for. The M is great as an everyday carry camera (it's always in my bag) and for traveling. I'd be totally comfortable using it as a backup/second body.

I thought we are talking about gear?

I wouldn't trust any photographer, unless I see their works and gear. I WILL NOT hire a photographer shooting with M in my wedding(i hope my wife and kids not reading thread)

Don't expect everyone on dance floor to stop, so you can get focus. About the groom and bride walking the aisle? About bride throwing bouquet? You think the M focus is fast enough for those moments?

I expect pro shooter at least in FF + L lenses, that's why they get pay big bucks.
Just don't show up at wedding with 3ti or M + kit lenses and charge less, just to earn business. How often you see that?

Let be realistic here. The M is fun to carry around due to small size. Adding that EF, EF-S, or L would take away "The Fundamental of this Camera".

What about a 1DIV?  Would you prefer a 1DIV to a 5DC?  Or even a 5D2?  What about a 6D? Or would you prefer the 1DIV?

I would relax and enjoy my wedding day.  Your paying the professional, let him/her worry about his/her tools.
What do you want?  Pics as per the portfolio that sold you? Or a schlong hanging competition?

If I booked a photographer, explained my requirements, and paid them a wedge and the pics weren't what I'd been led to expect, I would kneecap him.  He could keep the wedge, and he could show them to anybody who asked why he was taking photos from crutches.  I don't care so much about the pictures, just about folk thinking they can take a rise.  It wouldn't happen though because they would be well vetted.

But I wouldn't worry about him on my wedding day.  One of the very least important things on the day.  In fact I would regard even the 10 minute slot they had for pics between the service and meal an inconvenience.

Folk have lost sight of what weddings are all about. It's not about brinksmanship, or out doing your pals expensive flatpack wedding.  its about making a vow, dressing up, having a drink and a laugh.  We have no gift list (we are self sufficient financially and have cohabited for 5 years, anything we need we've got already) leave your weans at the creche for the service thanks.  We don't usually listen to classical music, so we won't have any thanks.  Lets have some pulp instead.  Some Kaiser Cheifs.  I regard Kilts as an english invention, a bastardisation of Sir Walter Scotts best intentions, so I won't be wearing one, but I appreciate that my friends wear them as if they mean something (they don't), have spent a lot of money on them, and well they do look quite smart, so wear them if you like.

I like 70's cars, so a Granda Coupe, or Citroen DS would be great.

And photos. Yawn.  If you must.  I know the old folks like to have them.  10 minutes slot.  Bang bang bang.  See you in two weeks with the proofs.

Wedding photographers have to come up with all this wacky stuff to stand out.  It's all a big con, and it has the potential to ruin your day.  A good wedding photographer will get it right, and you'll pay for the privilege.  I can drive my car, I don't tell the bus driver how to do his job or what bus to use.


Dylan777

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2013, 09:55:10 AM »

"Your paying the professional, let him/her worry about his/her tools.
What do you want?  Pics as per the portfolio that sold you? Or a schlong hanging competition?"  ==> I want high quality photos, because I don't plan to have another wedding ;). Missing shots due to improper gear is happening on TV, everydays


"Folk have lost sight of what weddings are all about. It's not about brinksmanship, or out doing your pals expensive flatpack wedding.  its about making a vow, dressing up, having a drink and a laugh.  We have no gift list (we are self sufficient financially and have cohabited for 5 years, anything we need we've got already) leave your weans at the creche for the service thanks.  We don't usually listen to classical music, so we won't have any thanks.  Lets have some pulp instead.  Some Kaiser Cheifs.  I regard Kilts as an english invention, a bastardisation of Sir Walter Scotts best intentions, so I won't be wearing one, but I appreciate that my friends wear them as if they mean something (they don't), have spent a lot of money on them, and well they do look quite smart, so wear them if you like."   ==> I'm in the late 30. I found it's hard to find "today woman" who would enjoy this type of wedding Paul ;)
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paul13walnut5

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2013, 10:14:08 AM »
I want high quality photos, because I don't plan to have another wedding ;). Missing shots due to improper gear is happening on TV, everydays

Go by the portfolio.  Do a google for horror stories.  I'm lucky, i'm friendly with a few working photographers who I could ask and wouldn't have to think twice about a) their interpretation of my instruction or b) the quality of their work.
Quote
I'm in the late 30. I found it's hard to find "today woman" who would enjoy this type of wedding Paul ;)

I'm doubly lucky.  The 'forever woman' I've found is on the same page as me as far as weddings go.  She'll have her personal touches, and it will be our day.  Not our parents, not our friends and certainly not the photographers.  But we'll share it.  And it'll will be good fun.  Bingo instead of speeches.  Karaoke instead of a dj.  'Take another little piece of my heart' for the first dance.  'Walk like a panther' as the second. 

We've been to enough horrible weddings that nobody has enjoyed, not least the couple, and my girlfriend has witnessed enough bridezillas for us to say, 'you know what?, phurk that!, let's do what WE want'.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 10:17:17 AM by paul13walnut5 »

Jim O

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2013, 10:21:07 AM »
I'm in the late 30. I found it's hard to find "today woman" who would enjoy this type of wedding Paul ;)
Maybe if it's her third or fourth...

I've been married twice (second time was 20 years ago - we're still together) and neither would have gone along with that.

The most enjoyable recent wedding I was at was a "backyard" affair that was casual. My "gift" to the bride and groom was a 16x20 portrait taken that day that I had professionally framed. Their photographer shot with some gear from a company that begins with the letter "N".

As for an EOS M as a wedding tool. It isn't. Plain and simple. Focus is too slow. What lens you have on it is irrelevant. You're going to miss some key candids. Even if the bride and groom are ok with what's presented to them, you, as a professional, will know that you could have done better.

I agree with whoever above said that the EOS M is a (physically) lightweight camera and putting a big lens on it makes little sense unless you have no choice. Just my $0.02.
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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2013, 10:21:07 AM »

Jim O

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2013, 10:29:37 AM »
I'm doubly lucky.  The 'forever woman' I've found is on the same page as me as far as weddings go.  She'll have her personal touches, and it will be our day.  Not our parents, not our friends and certainly not the photographers.  But we'll share it.  And it'll will be good fun.  Bingo instead of speeches.  Karaoke instead of a dj.  'Take another little piece of my heart' for the first dance.  'Walk like a panther' as the second. 

We've been to enough horrible weddings that nobody has enjoyed, not least the couple, and my girlfriend has witnessed enough bridezillas for us to say, 'you know what?, phurk that!, let's do what WE want'.

You are a lucky man! Of course come back in 20 years and tell us how you feel about that.  ;) I had little feeling one way or another. To me it was a formality that could just as well be handled at city hall followed by a party at our home, perhaps even after the "honeymoon". However, I wanted to give my bride what she wanted, whatever that was (both times). Luckily I had fun, both times and wouldn't do anything differently if I were to do it all over.

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paul13walnut5

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2013, 10:39:23 AM »
If I were a wedding photographer I probably wouldn't use an M.  Partly because of the work of Erving Goffman, mainly because there are better options, in terms of ergonomics, speed of setting changes, balance in the hand etc.

If my main camera broke and all I had was the m in my bag, I'd make it work.  I would know I could do this becuase I would have practiced practiced and practiced.

As a groom I might have the M in my pocket.  And get some nice stuff along the way of the day.

However, I would absolutely absolutely absolutely want to see a photographers portfolio, so I could see if their aesthetic and my vision will work together.

If I like the portfolio, they can use whatever camera they shot that on for my wedding.  It probably won't be an M.  But if it is, and if they've demonstrated that they have mastered it (I would know by their portfolio) then fine, let them use it or whatever else.

From what I've read folk aren't particularly saying that wedding photographers should use an M (although, bizarrely some are saying they must use full frame?) just that the wedding photographer should be trusted to pick what gear works for them.  If you don't trust your working experienced photographer then why the hell did you book them?

In 20 years time you might look back and think 'oh yes, that was a 1DX or was it a 5D3'.  And if you do, I can guarantee your wife will have left you once she found out what an anal bore you were.

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2013, 10:41:34 AM »
The subject on this thread seems to have changed, but I recently got the EF adapter for the M and tried some of my kit.  First, there is not problem with image quality.  I have nice lenses, and they produce great pictures on either my FF bodies or the M.  The issue is balance.

Obvious the 40mm pancake feels very natural on the M.    My EF 85mm f/1.8 feels fine.  Starting at about the weight of the 135L, however, the tipping point is reached and the combo begins to feel awkward.  It would work in a pinch as a back-up, but I would prefer to use the heavier lenses in their native environment.  I find the 6D a bit too light when using a 70-200mm f/2.8 or heavier lens for balance sake, so those type of lenses on an M is, to me, nothing but a novelty.  Even my 70-300L is ridiculous, although it produces very nice pics on the platform.  I've attached a quick shot + 100% crop.  Not a combo that I would use, but not because of IQ.
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sdsr

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2013, 11:33:52 AM »


Then I must ask - why did you buy an M in the first place? Another shiny toy?

The EOS M plus pancake is not really much smaller than your OM-D with a pancake:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#351.349,289.94,ha,t

If you're at home and have choice of any lens and body, you'd pick a FF.

If you wanted a pocketable camera, why not buy a S110 for smallest size, a G15 for versatility/manual controls, or a Sony RX1 if you want small full frame.

Why buy an EOS M in the first place? Why did you buy a mirrorless camera that's no smaller than your current mirrorless camera, no better quality than your FF bodies.

I welcome your difference in opinion, I just fail to see why the M was a better choice to you than the alternatives, if in fact you have no use for the adapter and the ability to mount all your existing glass to it.
[/quote]

As I mentioned earlier, I bought one out of curiosity, curiosity that was easy to satisfy at B&H's firesale price.  I hoped it would be a pocketable inconspicuous camera to use in darkish places like restaurants and, when I'm out with another camera, an alternative to swapping on a 35mm lens.  The sensor in an S110, G15 or even RX100 isn't as good as the sensor in the M, and while an RX1 would be nice, I'm not spending that much and ending up with no choice in focal length.  The OM-D is bigger and not as pocketable, the 35mm equiv. Olympus lens I have isn't a pancake, the pancake I own is too wide for a general-purpose lens, and buying another pancake lens would have cost more than the M + 22mm. 

As I've noted before, the M is capable of excellent image quality and it serves the purposes I bought it for quite well.  But for me, at least, it's nowhere near as easy or pleasant to use as a DSLR or the OM-D, so I'm not inclined to want to expand its use and I'm not sure I'll end up keeping it.

But leaving all that aside, what's wrong with shiny toys?  (Aside from its monitor, the M isn't shiny, by the way.)

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2013, 11:48:28 AM »
Don't expect everyone on dance floor to stop, so you can get focus. About the groom and bride walking the aisle? About bride throwing bouquet? You think the M focus is fast enough for those moments?

You're so right.  I mean, before autofocus cameras, there were no wedding photographers, right?  Forget brides slowly walking down the aisle, there was no sports photography before fast AF either, was there?  Back in the 50s and 60s, Sports Illustrated was all words and no pictures, 'eh?

The pair of photogs who shot my wedding had no trouble getting crisp focus of those moments using Mamiya RZ67's.  How fast is the autofocus on those? 

::)

Once upon a time, I managed to get moving atheletes in focus with a Minolta X-700.  Now, if you mean you wouldn't shoot a wedding with an EOS M because you need fast AF achieve good focus, that's sounds like a personal problem, to me.   :-X
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paul13walnut5

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2013, 12:08:58 PM »
Don't expect everyone on dance floor to stop, so you can get focus. About the groom and bride walking the aisle? About bride throwing bouquet? You think the M focus is fast enough for those moments?

You're so right.  I mean, before autofocus cameras, there were no wedding photographers, right?  Forget brides slowly walking down the aisle, there was no sports photography before fast AF either, was there?  Back in the 50s and 60s, Sports Illustrated was all words and no pictures, 'eh?

The pair of photogs who shot my wedding had no trouble getting crisp focus of those moments using Mamiya RZ67's.  How fast is the autofocus on those? 

::)

Once upon a time, I managed to get moving atheletes in focus with a Minolta X-700.  Now, if you mean you wouldn't shoot a wedding with an EOS M because you need fast AF achieve good focus, that's sounds like a personal problem, to me.   :-X

Absolutely!

The crappy fixed 1/60th synch of the x-700 might preclude any ambient / flash mix for your dancefloor shots though.
I preferred the slow shutter synch of my x-500.  Easier manual exposure too.

I do agree that the M doesn't make life quite as easy enough for some, shich to my mind is its sole failing: it's intended market probably need as much help without changing settings.

Out the box fw1 af was grim.  Anybody who had used a big Eos in anything other than green square mode has no excuse for not bring able to set up an m to take decent social photography.

Out the box af with fw2 is good, very good if you restrict the af selection points to the centre grid of squares (press the bin during shooting.


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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2013, 12:08:58 PM »

Jim O

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2013, 12:27:50 PM »
Now, if you mean you wouldn't shoot a wedding with an EOS M because you need fast AF achieve good focus, that's sounds like a personal problem, to me.   :-X

Apples and oranges.

I shot weddings and events using 645 manual focus back in the late '80's into the late '90's. I did "sports" with an AE-1 Program and a motor drive. Back then we also had bright optical viewfinders and the ability to readily detect if the subject was in focus, essentially using phase detection. Those advantages are not present in digital SLR's, especially not those with small sensors.

The M has no optical viewfinder. If you use an STM lens there is also a disconnect when manually focusing, at least with the 40 2.8 which I have used. I imagine it's easy to overshoot, though honestly I haven't tried it much with moving subjects. I bet that I can focus faster, much faster, with a film camera/lens combination designed for manual focus than I could with an LCD only camera and just about any EF lens on manual. I doubt there would be a competition.
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paul13walnut5

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2013, 02:08:19 PM »
I've always thought about fitting a katzeyes to my 7D.
Miss the split / micro/prism rign finder screens.  Made prefocusing dead easy!

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Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2013, 02:08:19 PM »