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Author Topic: 70D and Dxomark....  (Read 62757 times)

Don Haines

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #360 on: September 01, 2013, 08:48:18 PM »


Sticking your head in the sand is very dangerous in this forum.... there may be dangers lurking on the beach....
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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #360 on: September 01, 2013, 08:48:18 PM »

Famateur

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #361 on: September 01, 2013, 09:39:21 PM »
I might even go and...(gasp)...take a photo or two, and...(gasp)...enjoy it! :D
I tried that, but the fact that I have only 11 stops of DR just sucked the joy right out of it.  ::)

Yeah, I've been feeling a little deflated, too, now that I've learned I can't really take photos of much more than pigeons on a concrete overpass on an overcast day. Maybe there's a local support group that can help...

ahab1372

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #362 on: September 01, 2013, 09:57:47 PM »
So, you're saying I shouldn't have tried to take a picture from inside a pitch black tunnel and capture the graffiti sprayed on the black walls with black paint and in the same shot capture the kids' white chalk drawings on the white sidewalk in full sun just outside the tunnel?  Was that where I went wrong?  I bet a D7100 could have done it, though, right?  Sadly, I'm stuck with this PoS, poor dynamic range 1D X. As the actor-turned-Mayor-of-Carmel once said, "A man's got to know his limitations."
Lol, at least you have a slightly better chance with that tunnel than I do. I better get down to Carmel soon, maybe book a room at that actor's ranch, before the foggy season ends. They also don't have those tunnels down there AFAIK

garyknrd

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #363 on: September 01, 2013, 11:01:01 PM »
I fight with DR daily but, It seems most do not expose to the right? A couple of pages back I saw a mention of it. 
 
Actually I can shoot pretty close to the Nikon D4 with this technique. The only thing that bugs me is. Shooting beside a D4. It is less work for them.
Same with ISO, I would muchhhhh rather take my ISO higher and shoot to the right than to expose to a neutral setting. I can get close to the D4, but they do not worry about it  that much.

 There is an advantage to Nikon. But not as much as you think.
I don't change to Nikon because....... ( glass )  And to my surprise, my Nikon friends are envious of the Canon glass. To the point of switching to Canon? And I am not a Canon fanboy at all.

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« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 11:18:05 PM by garyknrd »
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9VIII

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #364 on: September 01, 2013, 11:17:35 PM »
So I was looking at some resolution charts for lenses yesterday.

Man the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR 2 sucks, like, those corners are terrible. To think that Nikon shooters have been wasting their lives with glass like that for so many years, almost half a decade now, sheesh, and it's so obvious too. It's like they've all got their head in the sand or something. I mean, obviously whatever talent you have is being severely limited if you use that system.

yes, the 70-200/2,8 VR2  is not the best regarding corners and together with a 24x36mm sensor, it is like a lot of lenses soft, and  compared with for example  Canon 70-200mk2 is the canon is much better
Now , it is not  the only  lens Nikon has, like Canon they have several and with better corner sharpness

Not the 24-70 2.8 though or 70-300 either.

Eventually if it really finally seems like Canon truly will never bother with more DR for another decade or two, I will switch, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. I'm starting to almost feel like it might be another decade for them or more. If the next round doesn't do anything for DR I wont buy it and will probably stop moving up in lenses, perhaps even dabble with a single lens and a Nikon as a second body and hope there is some sign the 5D5 round will do it, if it looks like not then I might finally switch over (keeping 5D3 and a simple lens or two for video if Nikon hasn't gotten anything going for video by then).

You'd actually switch over 2 stops of dynamic range? If Sony started making sensors with 20 stops of range that would be another thing, but if they stick at 13 (on average) and Canon stays around 11 (again, on average), that seems like a pretty minor issue to me.
If you look at the two flagship models, the 1DX and D4, it's only a 1.4 stop difference. Is that really such a huge lead? Heck, if you look at the variation within Nikons own current production models there's almost as much difference within Nikon as there is between the worst models from both companies.
Heaven forbid someone use a D4 instead of a D800.
Of course all else being equal it's a clear choice, but I have a feeling it'll never come to that, at least not within my lifetime.
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tnargs

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #365 on: September 01, 2013, 11:30:52 PM »
The point of ETTR is to allow more light to hit the sensor.

No, the point of ETTR is to avoid blown highlights while not losing detail in shadows. It might mean less light hitting the sensor, if average metering was going to blow important highlights.

tnargs

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #366 on: September 01, 2013, 11:31:01 PM »
When I used a pair of Nikons for a few months, I had to be more careful not to overexpose.  Whether because of the metering or the sensor, I don't know.  On balance, these are not big differences.  You just learn and make slight adjustments.

You might learn and make adjustments with a Nikon sensor, but if it is a Canon sensor, the only thing to do is go on Canon forums and blast the whole brand!

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #366 on: September 01, 2013, 11:31:01 PM »

tnargs

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #367 on: September 01, 2013, 11:31:08 PM »
So I was looking at some resolution charts for lenses yesterday.

Man the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR 2 sucks, like, those corners are terrible. To think that Nikon shooters have been wasting their lives with glass like that for so many years, almost half a decade now, sheesh, and it's so obvious too. It's like they've all got their head in the sand or something. I mean, obviously whatever talent you have is being severely limited if you use that system.

And yet, do we see Nikon users, 10 times a day, 10 times an hour, beating the beejeezus out of Nikon on the Nikon forums for the wide open corner performance of this lens? Do we see Canon users dropping in on Nikon forums and chortling arrogantly, and constantly posting pics of comparative wide open corner shots?

Why not? Is someone, somewhere, having an attack of courtesy?

Don Haines

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #368 on: September 01, 2013, 11:33:10 PM »
I might even go and...(gasp)...take a photo or two, and...(gasp)...enjoy it! :D
I tried that, but the fact that I have only 11 stops of DR just sucked the joy right out of it.  ::)

Yeah, I've been feeling a little deflated, too, now that I've learned I can't really take photos of much more than pigeons on a concrete overpass on an overcast day. Maybe there's a local support group that can help...
And with the limited DR of my camera, I am unable to raise detail out of the shadows.....
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Pi

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #369 on: September 01, 2013, 11:36:38 PM »
The point of ETTR is to allow more light to hit the sensor.

No, the point of ETTR is to avoid blown highlights while not losing detail in shadows. It might mean less light hitting the sensor, if average metering was going to blow important highlights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposing_to_the_right

In digital photography, exposing to the right (ETTR) is the technique of increasing the exposure of an image in order to collect the maximum amount of light and thus get the optimum performance out of the digital image sensor.

9VIII

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #370 on: September 01, 2013, 11:38:51 PM »
So I was looking at some resolution charts for lenses yesterday.

Man the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR 2 sucks, like, those corners are terrible. To think that Nikon shooters have been wasting their lives with glass like that for so many years, almost half a decade now, sheesh, and it's so obvious too. It's like they've all got their head in the sand or something. I mean, obviously whatever talent you have is being severely limited if you use that system.

And yet, do we see Nikon users, 10 times a day, 10 times an hour, beating the beejeezus out of Nikon on the Nikon forums for the wide open corner performance of this lens? Do we see Canon users dropping in on Nikon forums and chortling arrogantly, and constantly posting pics of comparative wide open corner shots?

Why not? Is someone, somewhere, having an attack of courtesy?

No-one's having a courtesy attack, it's just less fun to take cheap shots at the underdog.

Edit: Hmm, after seeing the other response below it looks like Tnargs may have been trying to complement the Canon userbase, which is commendable, and my response was a bit snappy.
Unfortunately it's still true, if Nikon was four times larger than Canon the Nikon Rumors forum would probably be just as much a mess.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 06:41:28 AM by 9VIII »
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duydaniel

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #371 on: September 01, 2013, 11:40:54 PM »
The point of ETTR is to allow more light to hit the sensor.

No, the point of ETTR is to avoid blown highlights while not losing detail in shadows. It might mean less light hitting the sensor, if average metering was going to blow important highlights.

You are confused. You cannot avoid blowing up highlight and not retaining shadow detail at the same time. ETTR is basically over expose your image a bit

verysimplejason

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #372 on: September 02, 2013, 01:18:22 AM »
The point of ETTR is to allow more light to hit the sensor.

No, the point of ETTR is to avoid blown highlights while not losing detail in shadows. It might mean less light hitting the sensor, if average metering was going to blow important highlights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposing_to_the_right

In digital photography, exposing to the right (ETTR) is the technique of increasing the exposure of an image in order to collect the maximum amount of light and thus get the optimum performance out of the digital image sensor.

+1.  It's all about getting as much light as you can without clipping the highlights while reducing the shadows.  It's equivalent to an overexposure of around 1/3 EV.

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #372 on: September 02, 2013, 01:18:22 AM »

dgatwood

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #373 on: September 02, 2013, 02:01:12 AM »
And with the limited DR of my camera, I am unable to raise detail out of the shadows.....

I'm fairly sure Shadow doesn't particularly care to have its tail raised.  Good way to get mauled.

aj1575

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #374 on: September 02, 2013, 02:22:26 AM »
I won a Photo Contest lately! My picture had a dynamic range 13,4EV at signal to noise ratio of 37,3dB. The second best only manged 12,9EV an 36,8dB.....

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Re: 70D and Dxomark....
« Reply #374 on: September 02, 2013, 02:22:26 AM »