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Author Topic: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]  (Read 63811 times)

dlleno

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2013, 12:14:18 PM »
The after market already has $1500  70-200 f/2.8 offerings.  I don't see the motivation for Canon to compete in that arena.

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2013, 12:14:18 PM »

dlleno

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #91 on: August 29, 2013, 12:25:00 PM »
Who is going to pay for a $1500 70-200 EF-S lens that is plastic, no weather sealing, no hood included, and may or may not have fluorite elements?

I know I would not!  It will still have a lot of glass and only be marginally lighter.

Sigma and Tamron both think there is a market for such a lens, and appear to be filling this particular niche. I havent used either of these but compared to the Canon  I'm guessing you will give up things like AF performance, distortion, CA, flare control, edge sharpness, build quality.  Canon's 70-200 f/2.8 ii is a flagship and I don't think they are willing to compromise the "70-200" branding either.  It seems they appear to be perfectly happy yielding to the after market in this category. 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892851-REG/Tamron_20_200mm_F_2_8_DI_VC.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/689577-REG/Sigma_589101_70_200mm_f_2_8_EX_DG.html

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-70-200mm-f-2.8-DG-OS-HSM-Lens-Review.aspx
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 12:44:30 PM by dlleno »

xROELOFx

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #92 on: August 29, 2013, 12:29:43 PM »
If they say big and white, my guess is a new 800mm. Probably for the price of around EUR 14.000,-.
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cellomaster27

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #93 on: August 29, 2013, 12:29:49 PM »
well the latest buzz is on focused on the sigma 18-35 1.8.. Wouldn't be surprised if Canon dishes out one of theirs.  I'm gonna cash in on a big aperture zoom.  with IS?  :D
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Frage

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #94 on: August 29, 2013, 12:42:19 PM »
I hope a cheap 35mm f/1,8 is coming  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

9VIII

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #95 on: August 29, 2013, 01:12:54 PM »
Here is my guess:

EF-S 70-200mm f/2.8 IS $1499 - similar to the EF version in quality but smaller in size w/o weather sealing.

...to compliment an imminent 7D MKII announcement!

Might sound crazy, but it is the one major gap in the EF-S lens series and would be a huge seller w/ the 7D MKII and 70D.
Wouldn't you think an EF-S 70-300mm IS F4 would be more likely?
Yes, I wish it was. But, according to statement of Neuro:

"for a telephoto design, the size of the image circle isn't limiting, the limiting parameter is filling the entrance pupil with light, and the entrance pupil is effectively at the front element."

So it seems 300mm does not allow a great advantage of EF-S in size and weight compared to EF.

Remember that the F number is just the focal length divided by the diameter of the opening (a 50mm lens with a 50mm aperture is f1, 50mm with a 25mm aperture is f2, etc...).
300mm f4 basically just tells you the dimensions of the lens. 300 millimeters long with a 75mm front opening.
The advantage you get when applying a crop sensor to your lens is that you get the equivalent Field Of View of a much longer lens. When I use my $1K 400mm lens with a crop sensor it gives the same FOV as a $12K 640mm behemoth, which is nice, but once you're in the lower focal length range, getting the equivalent FOV of a 50mm lens out of a 35mm lens really doesn't save me any money. Rather the opposite actually, making a lens shorter than the flange distance requires added complexity in the lens design, to then zoom in on that with a too-small sensor is just counter-productive.
Now that the Metabones Speed Booster is out I know for sure that they could be making EF-S lenses that give the same FOV and light gathering capability as regular 35mm lenses on 35mm cameras. Canon just seems to have no interest in doing that. What really confuses me is that even the dedicated crop systems (MFT, Fuji) seem to like toting their small sensors as a focal length modifier rather than trying to give people equivalent wide angle/low light capabilities. It's like there's some pact that no-one anywhere (other than Metabones) is allowed to try something like that.
The unfortunate reality is probably just that companies are too afraid to try something new.

silvestography

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: August 29, 2013, 01:22:00 PM »
Since this won't be "just a lens", I wonder if canon will announce a USB dock similar to Sigma's offering or a new "genre" of optical formula like the DO lenses.
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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: August 29, 2013, 01:22:00 PM »

Ruined

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #97 on: August 29, 2013, 01:22:59 PM »
The after market already has $1500  70-200 f/2.8 offerings.  I don't see the motivation for Canon to compete in that arena.

One of the main issues a lot of people have with the current 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II is that it is too heavy to comfortably carry through the day, and it costs $2500.

By adding a EF-S F/2.8 70-200 or EF-S f/2.8 55-250 IS etc, Canon does a few things:
A) Further legitimizes EF-S/crop mount making 7D MKII and 70D easier sells.
B) Competes with third parties that are likely stealing sales away from them for people who simply cannot afford a lens that costs $2500.
C) Does little to impact sales of EF 70-200 f/2.8 IS II because EF-S does not work on a full frame camera, and the EF version would be metal and weather sealed unlike the EF-S version.
D) Provides a lighter weight plastic F/2.8 lens w/ metal mount - Canon appears to be positioning crop for wildlife photographers who may not want to go hiking with a 3.3lb lens.  While it may not be massively lighter, I am sure they could cut down the weight and size a bit if more plastic was used and the lens was optimized for EF-S.

Canon can very easily convince people it is worth buying both a high quality EF-S telezoom and also the current EF 70-200.  Don't forget many currently have both the F2.8 *and* F/4 70-200 simply because the former is too heavy for some applications.  The EF-S would be another alternative that is cheaper and of lesser build but similar optical quality, better for crop than the f/4L.

This is of course all conjecture, but I think it would be a great idea to get people to buy into the idea of owning both APS and APS-C sets for different situations.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 01:27:20 PM by Ruined »

9VIII

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #98 on: August 29, 2013, 01:26:41 PM »
I'm hoping the announcement is an updated 100-400f5.6. Really for all I care it could be a 200-400f5.6, everything I've pointed my 400mm at so far hasn't filled the frame anyway, and if they could make it zoom internally as well then I wouldn't have to worry about sucking in dust.

ajfotofilmagem

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #99 on: August 29, 2013, 01:54:18 PM »
The after market already has $1500  70-200 f/2.8 offerings.  I don't see the motivation for Canon to compete in that arena.

One of the main issues a lot of people have with the current 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II is that it is too heavy to comfortably carry through the day, and it costs $2500.
By adding a EF-S F/2.8 70-200 or EF-S f/2.8 55-250 IS etc, Canon does a few things:
A) Further legitimizes EF-S/crop mount making 7D MKII and 70D easier sells.
B) Competes with third parties that are likely stealing sales away from them for people who simply cannot afford a lens that costs $2500.
C) Does little to impact sales of EF 70-200 f/2.8 IS II because EF-S does not work on a full frame camera, and the EF version would be metal and weather sealed unlike the EF-S version.
D) Provides a lighter weight plastic F/2.8 lens w/ metal mount - Canon appears to be positioning crop for wildlife photographers who may not want to go hiking with a 3.3lb lens.  While it may not be massively lighter, I am sure they could cut down the weight and size a bit if more plastic was used and the lens was optimized for EF-S.
Canon can very easily convince people it is worth buying both a high quality EF-S telezoom and also the current EF 70-200.  Don't forget many currently have both the F2.8 *and* F/4 70-200 simply because the former is too heavy for some applications.  The EF-S would be another alternative that is cheaper and of lesser build but similar optical quality, better for crop than the f/4L.
This is of course all conjecture, but I think it would be a great idea to get people to buy into the idea of owning both APS and APS-C sets for different situations.
I agree. Not all owners 7D and 70D can pay $ 2500 in a 70-200 F2.8. If Canon makes an EF-S 70-200 F2.8 IS, or EF-S 55-200 F2.8 IS, can sell like hotcakes, even if it costs $ 1500. This strategy does not cannibalize sales of L series lenses.

silvestography

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #100 on: August 29, 2013, 02:00:13 PM »
Just had another thought based on this review (http://www.ronmartblog.com/2013/08/review-canon-ef-200-400mm-f4l-is-usm.html): could we get a 70-200 2.8 IS WITH built in 1.4x TC? The 1.4x in the 200-400 is designed specifically for that lens as to maximize optical performance, so I don't see why they couldn't do the same for a 70-200. It would be big, heavy and expensive, but I'm sure there's a market for it.
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dlleno

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #101 on: August 29, 2013, 02:01:31 PM »
The after market already has $1500  70-200 f/2.8 offerings.  I don't see the motivation for Canon to compete in that arena.

One of the main issues a lot of people have with the current 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II is that it is too heavy to comfortably carry through the day, and it costs $2500.

By adding a EF-S F/2.8 70-200 or EF-S f/2.8 55-250 IS etc, Canon does a few things:
A) Further legitimizes EF-S/crop mount making 7D MKII and 70D easier sells.
B) Competes with third parties that are likely stealing sales away from them for people who simply cannot afford a lens that costs $2500.
C) Does little to impact sales of EF 70-200 f/2.8 IS II because EF-S does not work on a full frame camera, and the EF version would be metal and weather sealed unlike the EF-S version.
D) Provides a lighter weight plastic F/2.8 lens w/ metal mount - Canon appears to be positioning crop for wildlife photographers who may not want to go hiking with a 3.3lb lens.  While it may not be massively lighter, I am sure they could cut down the weight and size a bit if more plastic was used and the lens was optimized for EF-S.

Canon can very easily convince people it is worth buying both a high quality EF-S telezoom and also the current EF 70-200.  Don't forget many currently have both the F2.8 *and* F/4 70-200 simply because the former is too heavy for some applications.  The EF-S would be another alternative that is cheaper and of lesser build but similar optical quality, better for crop than the f/4L.

This is of course all conjecture, but I think it would be a great idea to get people to buy into the idea of owning both APS and APS-C sets for different situations.

well you're opinion is as good as mine :D .  imho Canon has bigger fish to fry than to compete head on with a  lens they are already yielding to the after market.  All the items in your list except B are fulfilled in the aftermarket today.  Maybe Canon can find room to make money in the Budget 70-200 world I don't know ,but if so I think an APS-C offering would have to be sub $1000 to be attractive.  The serious "C" body users will buy the $2500 L lens but you're making a good point here that an affordable zoom would be attractive;  I just don't know how much room there is between the 55-250 and a $1200 FF compatible Sigma in which they could compete effectively. 

To direct and priorotize their available R&D efforts  I think they need to update the 100-400 and shore up the UWA zoom arena before trying to enter a mature market in which they have no presence.   Sigma is attacking the APS-C UWA market too;  Canon needs to remain competitive there, imho and not loose to the after market. 

that said, for all I know Canon may be thinking differently.  I mean they could market a $1500 long lens that can't be used on a FF;  I just don't think they have it in their DNA to to that.  The After market has already determined that a lightweight 70-200 f/2.8 north of $1000 will sell, but it must be usable on a FF as well. 

JonAustin

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: August 29, 2013, 03:42:51 PM »
replacement for the version II of the 300, 400, 500, and 600 with built-in 1.4 convertors (like the 200-400).  Of course the price would jump by $2,000 per lens (ouch!)

I proposed a 300/4L IS II with built-in 1.4x TC in another thread here a while back, and a couple of folks jumped on me and shouted "heresy!"

My longest reach currently is 70-200/2.8L IS (I) + 1.4x TC II. My desire for something longer is present but not pressing. And swapping my 1.4x TC in and out is a pain.

I'd like to see an update to either the 300/4L IS or the 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS before opening my wallet. Like others here, a 200-400 f/4-5.6 IS would more than satisfy; I don't need the FL range overlap (or the additional size, weight and cost) of reaching down to 100 (or 80) mm.

For me, an updated 300/4L with built-in 1.4x TC, weather sealing, the latest IS, etc. would be a dream come true.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 03:45:12 PM by JonAustin »
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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: August 29, 2013, 03:42:51 PM »

dlleno

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #103 on: August 29, 2013, 04:22:46 PM »
Just had another thought based on this review (http://www.ronmartblog.com/2013/08/review-canon-ef-200-400mm-f4l-is-usm.html): could we get a 70-200 2.8 IS WITH built in 1.4x TC? The 1.4x in the 200-400 is designed specifically for that lens as to maximize optical performance, so I don't see why they couldn't do the same for a 70-200. It would be big, heavy and expensive, but I'm sure there's a market for it.

interesting concept;  not for me though.  imho the 70-200 f/2.8 IS ii is already heavy and for me the range is just so beautiful with a FF that I want it to remain hand-holdable.  If you need 70-300 then get a 70-300 ,but don't mess with the 70-200 which by itself is just soooo awesome.  It would surely be a niche/specialty lens, imho, to have a 70-200 f/2.8 IS plus 1.4x.

I do think Canon is onto somethign though -- to build the TCs into the big whites, i.e 300mm f/2.8 with a dedicated  1.4 or even 2x (or both)  would be  waaaaay cool. whether or not doing that to the 70-200 is another matter ...

PhotographerJim

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: August 29, 2013, 05:05:01 PM »
A new-and-improved 100-400?

This lens is loooong overdue and would likely sell like hotcakes, as did the current version.  I was recently looking at Nikon and they have a new improved version of their 80-400 and the reviews are off-the-charts positive.  The improved Canon would need zoom ring instead of push pull and preferably start at 80mm instead of 100mm to match Sigma and Nikon.

I would be very happy with a 100-400 f/4

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Re: A Big Lens Announcement in September? [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: August 29, 2013, 05:05:01 PM »