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Author Topic: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help  (Read 24217 times)

MartynV

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2013, 07:12:47 PM »
What about neither and invest in some good glass instead??

Good idea, but the 24-70 f/2.8II is too heavy for holiday, the 24-70 f/4 has focus shifting issues and I've owned a 24-105 for 6 years (now sold). I do have a 35mm which is like a 50mm on a 650D.

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2013, 07:12:47 PM »

sdsr

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2013, 07:48:22 PM »
When you write that your present camera "it lacks dynamic range for landscapes leaving the sky blue and the ground seemingly dark", presumably you're exposing for the sky rather than the ground?  This is a common problem but it can usually be fixed by experimenting more with exposure, shooting raw and adjusting the results with software.  Do you do that now?  If so, and you're still not satisfied and want to stick with Canon rather than switching to Pentax or Nikon for sensors with greater DR, you would likely find that switching to a FF sensor helps - I find it easier to restore colours to the sky and other areas with washed-out highlights and detail/light  to the dark bits with a FF sensor.  I assume they would beat the 70D in that regard too.

I doubt a 70D or 6D will satisfy all your requirements (though I've never tried photographing planes etc. with my 6D); you will likely need to compromise and thus decide which of your various wants matter most.  Can you rent (or hire or whatever the right verb is in the UK) a 6D and find out first hand?

MartynV

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2013, 08:06:44 PM »
Hi,

Thanks, I've tried locking the exposure on the ground first and tried 1+ stop exposure compensation. That seems to help but my 650D often underexposes with the 35mm f/2 IS. What software would you recommend for restoring the sky as described?

Renting is possible and this has eliminated the need for me to own a 70-200 f/4L IS, so worth a try for the 6D at least.

Martyn

When you write that your present camera "it lacks dynamic range for landscapes leaving the sky blue and the ground seemingly dark", presumably you're exposing for the sky rather than the ground?  This is a common problem but it can usually be fixed by experimenting more with exposure, shooting raw and adjusting the results with software.  Do you do that now?  If so, and you're still not satisfied and want to stick with Canon rather than switching to Pentax or Nikon for sensors with greater DR, you would likely find that switching to a FF sensor helps - I find it easier to restore colours to the sky and other areas with washed-out highlights and detail/light  to the dark bits with a FF sensor.  I assume they would beat the 70D in that regard too.

I doubt a 70D or 6D will satisfy all your requirements (though I've never tried photographing planes etc. with my 6D); you will likely need to compromise and thus decide which of your various wants matter most.  Can you rent (or hire or whatever the right verb is in the UK) a 6D and find out first hand?

Famateur

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2013, 08:49:52 PM »
What software would you recommend for restoring the sky as described?

Just jumping in here because I've recently been through a similar experience with software. I would highly recommend that you shoot RAW and use Lightroom 5 (B&H has a $50 24-hour discount right now). I snapped up the same deal a couple weeks ago from Adorama and couldn't be happier.

Some other thoughts:

  • You'll need a capable computer to run Lightroom. It's RAM-hungry and my old laptop (6 years) with 4GB on Windows 7 64-bit can get by, but it lags terribly once I've used a few local adjustment brushes.
  • It's amazing how much you can do correcting exposure, both across the whole image and locally where needed. There are numerous helpful how-to videos on YouTube to get you going.
  • In addition to exposure and white balance control, you can correct for lens distortion, chromatic aberration, perspective, horizon...and a zillion other things to really improve each photo.
  • You might start by shooting RAW+JPEG. This allows you to experiment in Lightroom and compare to what you would have had with in-camera JPEG. I expect you'd be quite pleased with the difference.
  • Perhaps the best part: All the adjustments you do in Lightroom are non-destructive. As your skills improve (or if you simply want a different look from the image), you can go back and change, undo or adjust anything you've done to the original RAW file.

Anyway, do what works for you. Just thought I'd share my recent experience moving from JPEG to RAW + Lightroom 5. It's quite addicting now...

bholliman

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2013, 09:26:53 PM »
I would highly recommend that you shoot RAW and use Lightroom 5

+1,  good response
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2013, 09:42:24 PM »
I would highly recommend that you shoot RAW and use Lightroom 5

+1,  good response

Agree 100 percent...

BTW, I shoot with a 60D. I have no interest in upgrading to a 70D as it isn't enough of a jump to be worth it. I like the extra reach of crop cameras and do not shoot that much in conditions where the extra ISO/noise ability of FF would be that useful to me. There are several nice features on the 70D that I would find nice, but I have learned that what I really need is good autofocus and high frame rate. I can't afford a 1DX and I am hoping that the autofocus system on the 7D2 will be close to the 1DX.... at any rate, it should be far superior to the 6D. Perhaps an option for you is to not buy a camera yet...

Put a sharp lens, like one of the 70-200's, on ANY rebel and learn how to use lightroom and you will not believe the quality of the images that you can produce. Shooting RAW and using lightroom will have more impact on your photos than going to a 6D will.
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bholliman

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2013, 09:44:33 PM »
It's interesting that the 6D can cope with air shows. I would have thought a 70-200 f/2.8 wouldn't provide enough reach if the UK's obsession with health and safety is anything to go by.

We were sitting very close to the main runway where planes were taking off and landing.  There were also plenty of close fly-bys.  200mm was fine for the most part, I used a borrowed EF 1.4Xiii extender at times and had to do a fair amount of cropping on some shots.  A 70-300 or 100-400 would be a better choice for air shows.
Bodies:  6D, EOS-M (22/2 and 18-55)
Lenses: Rokinon 14mm 2.8, 35mm 2.0 IS, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L IS Macro, 135mm 2.0L, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, Extenders: EF 1.4xIII, EF 2xIII ; Flash: ST-E3-RT, 600EX-RT (x3)

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2013, 09:44:33 PM »

Famateur

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2013, 10:18:21 PM »
I would highly recommend that you shoot RAW and use Lightroom 5

+1,  good response

Agree 100 percent...

Thanks! I started with Digital Photo Professional, and while it was better than JPEG, I found Lightroom 5 to be easier to use, more powerful, feature-rich and worth every penny.

Shooting RAW and using lightroom will have more impact on your photos than going to a 6D will.

Amen!

sarakoth

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2013, 10:33:49 PM »
I had similar thoughts when I recently upgraded.. deciding between a 70D, 6D and possible 7D2.

I ended up with the 6D as the better IQ of all my shots, versus the occasional shot I might miss due to poor AF seemed like the best option. I shoot a variety of subjects and other than going for a 5D3 a compromise had to be made. So far I am very happy with my 6D..

One thing with airshows.. I assume you will actually be a fair way away.. and while planes move fast, they don't move that fast in relation to you and also they move in a very predictable way. The 6D has the rear button AF lock on, which I used to good effect at a recent track day. I had little problem locking on with the center point on my subject, let the camera track and then press the shutter when the subject was framed how I wanted.. also as far as burst... I was shooting RAW and rarely had a issue.. though you tend to take 4 or 5 pics as the cars go past and that is it.. an airshow I imagine you might well just keep you finger down constantly. I shot a airshow a few years ago with the 500D and the 6D AF is certainly no worse than that.. yes the outer points are not as good as a 7D but the IQ is much better. Also with an airshow I would imagine you take most photos with the planes in the center of the pic? As there is nothing else of context around them?? To me the outer points are for when the scene might be crowded but your main subject is off center.. maybe review you existing photos and see where in the frame the subject is.. also with the distance so far away, with your DOF you can focus using centre point and then recompose.. also finally the outer points seem to be ok in good light, which I assume most airshows are held in summer and should not be a problem.

So to me you could certainly get away with working around the limitations of the 6D for the occasional use of an airshow, and then the rest of the time the 6D will be much better than the 70D or 7D for ALL your other shots.



Woody

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2013, 10:37:03 PM »
No need to agonize over this decision. I have both and am a happy camper. So, just get both. :D

The 70D does not offer better accuracy than 6D. It all depends on your subject. For your subjects (products, family portraits, architecture, macro, landscapes), you can stick to center AF point on 6D and recompose if you are worried. I use the single axis peripheral AF points on my 6D and have no issues with accuracy (50 f/1.4 lens wide-open). That said, I LOVE the speed and accuracy of live view phase detect AF on my 70D coupled with the awesome touchscreen.

If you want faster fps and deep buffer, 70D is a better choice. Canon sensors offer sufficient dynamic range for my shooting (mostly landscapes and portraits). If you want a big optical viewfinder, then obviously 6D is the solution. However, I never use OVF for manual focusing, expanded view in live view easily beats that.

tcmatthews

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2013, 11:01:44 PM »
I would say neither. 6D likely won't meet your speed, reach, nor autofocus needs.  70D might not meet your image quality needs. 

You might want to wait and see what the 7D MKII brings - apparently being released in next 3-6 months and could bring an improved 24mp APS-C sensor.

If the rumors are correct, it might be the perfect blend of quality and features you are looking for.

Especially with the burst/frame buffer, it is likely the 7D MKII will go unmatched in its price range.

I have a very similar dilemma that I made even more complicated.  Last year I destroyed my 60D the 6D was not out yet and I needed a camera.  If the 70D was out I would have bought one in a second.  But all they announced was the EOS M. 

So I when to Best Buy to check out new cameras the T4i Liveview was a disappointment.  The Nikon D600 felt like a box that was to big and my fingers cramped it about 5 seconds.  (I think I am allergic to the mid to high end Nikon. I was also surprised they had one it was just announced two days before I went to the store.)  I was impressed by the Nex.  So I grudgingly I bought a New 60D feeling ripped off. I still feel that the 70D is a year Late.  If the 6D came out in early September I would have bought one and been broke and happy.

In the mean time Sony put the  Nex 5n on sale and I bought one as a Christmas present for my parents to work with my fathers Canon FD Lens.   But I just had to play with it first.  I liked it so much I kept his FD lens and bough a Nex 6.
 
A 6D would work for 80% of my photography needs but fail completely on the other 20%.  A 70D would satisfy all of my focus needs but fails at IQ 80% of the time.  (I am guessing at this but with the NEX my expectations have increased.)

I am going to rent a 70D to see if I am correct in my assumption.

In the mean time download Magic Lantern and have fun. 

I also found that for the 80% of photography that I would use a 6D for I could get by with a NEX when it comes to focus. 

Now I stuck with the choice of:
  • Buy a 6D?
  • Buy a 70D?
  • Wait for  a 7D II?
  • Buy a new L Lens? 100-400L or 70-200f2.8L
  • Buy yet to be announced full frame Nex?
pick two of the above but I can only afford one.

I really want the Sigma Art 35 but if I stay crop the new zoom would replace the need to buy like 3 primes.  I want a Tokina 11-16 f2.8 to replace my iffy water damaged Sigma 10-20.  So many Choices so little money. 

I still feel tempted to buy a refurbished 6D now that Canon has extended the warranty they are only around $1600 and I have a dead camera to trade in.  Regardless I am waiting to see what Sony announces.  It would cost to much money to move to Sony for what I want out of my Canon.  The Lens are more and not as good.  So it looks like I am now stuck using two systems to get what I like.
6D, 60D, Rebel XS, EF-S 15-85,  EF 70-200f4L, EF 100f2.8L,  Tamron 70-300VC,  Tamaron 28-75f2.8,   EF 40f2.8,  EF 50f1.8, EF 85f1.8, EF 24mmf2.8IS  EOS M 22f2, 18-55, EOS M-EF adapter, Nex6,  SEL50f18,  SEL1018,  DN 30f2.8, adpaters and Fd and M42 lens.

bholliman

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2013, 05:45:25 AM »
One thing with airshows.. I assume you will actually be a fair way away.. and while planes move fast, they don't move that fast in relation to you and also they move in a very predictable way. The 6D has the rear button AF lock on, which I used to good effect at a recent track day. I had little problem locking on with the center point on my subject, let the camera track and then press the shutter when the subject was framed how I wanted.. also as far as burst... I was shooting RAW and rarely had a issue.. though you tend to take 4 or 5 pics as the cars go past and that is it.. an airshow I imagine you might well just keep you finger down constantly. I shot a airshow a few years ago with the 500D and the 6D AF is certainly no worse than that.. yes the outer points are not as good as a 7D but the IQ is much better. Also with an airshow I would imagine you take most photos with the planes in the center of the pic? As there is nothing else of context around them?? To me the outer points are for when the scene might be crowded but your main subject is off center.. maybe review you existing photos and see where in the frame the subject is.. also with the distance so far away, with your DOF you can focus using centre point and then recompose.. also finally the outer points seem to be ok in good light, which I assume most airshows are held in summer and should not be a problem.

+1 to your air show comments.  I've shot air shows with a 550D, 7D and now 6D and all of them did a nice job.  Looking back at the pictures, I have a higher percentage of high quality shots with the 6D (possible my increasing photography experience has something to do with this also).

« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 07:41:22 AM by bholliman »
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captainkanji

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2013, 08:41:47 PM »
Canon 6D, EF 70-200 f/4L USM (cropped a hair in LR)--click image for larger size




Cropped this one a little


I was pretty close to the action.  Having a 300 or even a 400 would have been even better. 

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2013, 08:41:47 PM »

dgatwood

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2013, 09:41:41 PM »
There's something mighty disturbing about pictures of planes with the propellers frozen like that.  I feel like the next picture is going to show it with the nose stuck in the ground.  :D

But seriously, nice pics.

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Re: Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2013, 09:41:41 PM »