July 23, 2014, 04:57:33 PM

Author Topic: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%  (Read 22581 times)

Marsu42

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2013, 04:03:22 PM »
Why is it the measured ISO are so different from the reported ISO? Shouldn't this be taken into account when we compare the noise of cameras at high iso?

Imho no, because the measured iso is just an intermediate layer nobody cares about - the more the companies cheat on the iso value, the more underexposed the shots will get and *that* is the thing to compare because it will raise the noise level.

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2013, 04:03:22 PM »

Pi

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2013, 04:11:32 PM »
BOB N has now presented the figures for 70D regarding read out noise, DR etc
here we can se 70d in comparison with one Toshiba and one Sony made sensor
The read out noise is 4,35 times higher , compare this to 5dmk3 vs d800 there 5dmk3 has 12,2 times higher read out noise.

Where did you get this, it is not on sensorgen yet?

The d7000 has an amazing saturation level, a stop above the typical for a crop camera.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2013, 04:17:38 PM »
Mikael, sorry I confused you again and again and again.  I was joking.  Sarcasm.  You don't get it, that's ok, just let it drop.
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Pi

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2013, 05:00:25 PM »
BOB N has now presented the figures for 70D regarding read out noise, DR etc


Interesting - I can understand the large dr difference, but would anybody please care to explain to poor /me what read noise and saturation mean for real world shooting?

I tried to look at the explanations (from http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/digital.sensor.performance.summary/index.html) - but they are very technical and according to these numbers, both the 5d3 and 70d have to be complete junk @iso100 which doesn't seem to hinder even pros using them. So what's the real world difference?


the real difference do you se in a contrasty motif with large DR or that you can expose a large DR motif different (described 100 of times of me) and  you can reproduce more from the blackest to the whitest where in a Canon the read out noise  and banding puts an end in the darkest parts  in Canon .= to get large DR


In addition - the high saturation level of the d7000 - twice as much as usual, makes this sensor an ISO 50 one, if you consider the rest of the crop bunch to be ISO 100. This allows you to allow for more light, when possible (SS, etc.), and get a lower noise, which is perceived as better tonality. You get the tonality of FF sensors basically. For that, you need to ETTR properly. This, combined with the read noise kept under control increases the DR even further.

EDIT: not quite right: I forgot that the d700 has 16mp "only".
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 07:11:35 PM by Pi »

AlanF

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2013, 05:23:18 PM »
I tend to shoot at 320-640-1250 for wild life. Am I right in interpreting from those data kindly provided from BobN that the sensors tend to be much similar there?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 01:59:35 AM by AlanF »
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Marsu42

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2013, 06:59:15 PM »
You get the tonality of FF sensors basically.

Thanks for the explanations - and oh my, does that mean if you shoot at base iso (landscape & architecture w/ tripod) with Nikon crop and the 24mp are enough for you vs. d800 you don't need a ff sensor anymore, esp. not a Canon ff? That's ignoring the lenses and software, of course.

Pi

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2013, 07:16:38 PM »
You get the tonality of FF sensors basically.

Thanks for the explanations - and oh my, does that mean if you shoot at base iso (landscape & architecture w/ tripod) with Nikon crop and the 24mp are enough for you vs. d800 you don't need a ff sensor anymore, esp. not a Canon ff? That's ignoring the lenses and software, of course.

I was not quite right there. I forgot that the d7000 has 16mp, I thought it is like the d7100. So the d7000 is 1 stop behind the D800 in terms of light collection, instead of 1 stop and 1/3 or so.  Not enough to get close to FF, and the D800 is not just any FF.

Even if it had the D800 tonality, the resolution difference due to the pixel count and the enlargement factor still would stay. 

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2013, 07:16:38 PM »

Jim O

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2013, 07:44:09 PM »
My first test is from 1978 Leica summicron-vs  a zoom Nikkor 80-200
then search at for example in old  Photodo magazines.
is this the best you and others can do , when the arguments runs short, trow garbage at others, it would be better if you and others  could  met me and argue with facts

If this was a "response" to my questions, it is several things but it didn't answer any of the questions I posed.

I am still waiting for answers. I have searched. Please provide the links since evidently I am too stupid to find them.

Bye the way, that was sarcasm, but I still want the links to your oh so many articles. Saying they're there, and their actually being there are two different things. It's time to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
When people see you arguing with an idiot on the internet, all they see is two idiots arguing.

aj1575

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2013, 02:25:14 AM »
Ill be posting a bunch of tests between these 2 cameras. Im learning a lot of really interesting things, and so far it has been an absolute slugfest. The Nikon has been surprising me in positive ways, and then the 70D comes back and crushes the D7100 in others. Ill have a full write up available soon.

Check this out. No commentary on my part, decide for yourselves. Quick and dirty test with description of what I did here:

http://www.michaelthemaven.com/?postID=2894&canon-70d-vs-nikon-d7100-iso-noise-chart


Thanks for the work you put in, but this is not really helpfull. These kinds of tests can be seen at dpReview easely. If you really like to make a test, then show us some real world examples, with decent quality (not like the ones of candles you posted, where some pictures are out of focus.

Pi

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2013, 02:31:10 AM »
Ill be posting a bunch of tests between these 2 cameras. Im learning a lot of really interesting things, and so far it has been an absolute slugfest. The Nikon has been surprising me in positive ways, and then the 70D comes back and crushes the D7100 in others. Ill have a full write up available soon.

Check this out. No commentary on my part, decide for yourselves. Quick and dirty test with description of what I did here:

http://www.michaelthemaven.com/?postID=2894&canon-70d-vs-nikon-d7100-iso-noise-chart


Thanks for the work you put in, but this is not really helpfull. These kinds of tests can be seen at dpReview easely. If you really like to make a test, then show us some real world examples, with decent quality (not like the ones of candles you posted, where some pictures are out of focus.


The test means nothing if they were not exposed the same way, and there is no mentioning of that. Also, NR is on, one of the shots is misfocused, etc.

Skulker

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2013, 03:41:53 AM »

Here is an discussion group 2001 and regarding scanners  (before the real  digital SLR time)http://www.lexa.ru/FS/msg12761.html



hi ankorwatt

did you really mean to link to  a post were you said "you are totally wrong" and then had to correct less than 2 hours later with "my mistake, sorry".

I was just wondering if you really think that link improves your credibility?

« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 03:43:27 AM by Skulker »

aj1575

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2013, 03:58:35 AM »

The test means nothing if they were not exposed the same way, and there is no mentioning of that. Also, NR is on , one of the shots is misfocused, etc.

I do not agree with the active NR is a negative point about the test; it just depends what you like to test. Is it only the sensor, or the image pipeline as a whole, or the camera. Since I buy a camera, I'm interested what the camera ca do, this includes NR. If the NR withhin one camera is better than within another, than this is a selling point.

Skulker

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2013, 06:09:05 AM »

Here is an discussion group 2001 and regarding scanners  (before the real  digital SLR time)http://www.lexa.ru/FS/msg12761.html



hi ankorwatt

did you really mean to link to  a post were you said "you are totally wrong" and then had to correct less than 2 hours later with "my mistake, sorry".

I was just wondering if you really think that link improves your credibility?


sorry, you must be more precise, every one  makes mistake, or often in my case the are spelling, translation problems.
its sounds good in my head but not text wise when I look at it again

I also try not to be so burdus  after a number of attacks that has  nothing to with the discussed subject  or facts


I know we all make mistakes Ankorwatt, but I was just puzzled. Someone was questioning your credibility and you gave a reference that was just a  comment over a decade old were you were correcting yourself for clearly saying someone else was "totally wrong" when it was you who was in fact "totally wrong".

There was no problem with spelling or translation. You were simply wrong when you said, rather rudely, that someone else was wrong.

I still do not understand why you chose that link when Jim was asking for a link to something you have written or published to give you credibility. To me it seems just to undermine your credibility without proving anything other than that you have been rather "burdus" for the last 12 years. Why did you choose it?

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2013, 06:09:05 AM »

Pi

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2013, 09:22:01 AM »

The test means nothing if they were not exposed the same way, and there is no mentioning of that. Also, NR is on , one of the shots is misfocused, etc.

I do not agree with the active NR is a negative point about the test; it just depends what you like to test. Is it only the sensor, or the image pipeline as a whole, or the camera. Since I buy a camera, I'm interested what the camera ca do, this includes NR. If the NR withhin one camera is better than within another, than this is a selling point.

What if you can tweak the NR (standard, strong)? Then you need tests with all those parameters. Also, how do you define "better"? You need to see what detail is lost vs. the loss of noise, and you need a well focused shot for that.

The main point however is that "the same ISO" means nothing. You need the same exposure.

Skulker

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2013, 09:37:44 AM »
then show me, so we know what you mean

I was asking you to explain. I can't "show you" why you chose to link to your own mistake.

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2013, 09:37:44 AM »