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Author Topic: 70D black-cap tests - Now with samples  (Read 3926 times)

Aglet

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70D black-cap tests - Now with samples
« on: August 30, 2013, 11:02:53 PM »
Lens cap shots.  You bet! :)

Well, I had to process them using DNG-converter 8.2rc but that's likely adequate for now.

What I can see is that the noise structure of the 70D's sensor is still typical Canon; lots of noise in the red and blue channels and still a fair bit in green but the noise structures at base ISO are mostly fine-grained and should respond well to NR software.

There is still some larger structured noise banding tho it's mostly broad horizontal banding and unlikely to severely impact most images.  Dark-sky photographers pushing to look for dim details my be about the only ones who would run into problems.

edit:  BUT - I accidentally took the first 100 ISO dark shot with the info display activated, so rear LCD was ON. The resulting noise levels were much higher (~ between 400 & 800 iso dark shots) than the next 100 iso shot when I turned the display OFF.  The 100 iso dark shot with LCD display ON had much more red channel noise than any of the other shots.

200 and 400 ISO are similar but the noise structures are (more balanced) with both H & V elements.  Again, these are quite fine and will probably respond very well to typical NR software.

Noise starts to pick up at 800 ISO, noise structure similar to iso 400

1600 and 3200 iso show increasing overall noise levels as expected.  Noise structures become a little more obvious but, again, would respond well to NR software and only pushed large areas of continuous shades or tones may bely some of this non-uniformity.

6400 and 12800 are pretty noisy and continue to show some banding structures in both H & V axis but

OVERALL, THIS LOOKS TO BE CANON'S BEST APS-C SENSOR IN A LONG TIME.

FPN exists but is at a workably low level and may even be comparable to Toshiba's new sensor as far as noise structures.  However, overall TOTAL NOISE is still much higher than the Sony or Toshiba sensors and this will reduce effective maximum DR somewhat but that can be partly negated with NR software.

I would not steer anyone away from using this camera, it's comparable to the 6D for noise quality and certainly bests my 60D and blows away the 7D I used to have.

If you need the ultimate in clean black levels in your raw files then this is still not the camera for you.

BUT, using some decent noise-reduction software you can comfortably use the 70D in ways that the 7D and 60D before it would disappoint.  The 70D is "good enough" for most uses unless you're as picky as I am.  I know I could still find some situations where this camera might not perform as well as I'd like.

I could also not find any significant variation in noise structure I could attribute to the areas that were normal pixels VS. the AF pixels so they've done a really good job on that.


Polite applause for Canon.  They've certainly made some progress in this model.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 05:08:51 PM by Aglet »

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70D black-cap tests - Now with samples
« on: August 30, 2013, 11:02:53 PM »

weixing

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Re: 70D black-cap tests
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2013, 12:44:23 AM »
Hi,
    Different between Canon RAW and Nikon RAW: if you shoot at the highest shutter speed with lens cap on, the mean value is 2048 for 60D (if I remember correctly) and Nikon is 0.

    I think that's because Canon RAW files retain the bias level information in the RAW files, but Nikon remove it... that's why Astrophotographer prefer Canon DSLR over Nikon DSLR as they can calibrate the image properly for Canon RAW files.

    Have a nice day.

Aglet

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Re: 70D black-cap tests - now with visuals
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2013, 03:49:58 PM »
OK, finally took the time to put together the full stop ISO shots and bash them into a presentable form adequate for this purpose.
Shots are raw files taken at 1/200s, f/16, DLWB, all in-camera NR, ALO, and other features turned OFF.
Main LCD display is also set to OFF, except see difference it made when I forgot it ON in the first image.

Processing is done with my ACR standard of +4EV to bring the noise patterns up where you can really see them.

This camera's output at low ISO levels is a good bit cleaner with less banding than previous crop sensors like the 18MP one that debuted in the 7D and 60D.

Aglet

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Re: 70D black-cap tests
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2013, 04:20:38 PM »
These are full size crops from the +4EV push of the 70D raw files (via Adobe DNG converter and ACR as per my standard test method)

There are 6 samples here and I've organized them as follows:

COUNTER-CLOCKWISE FROM TOP RIGHT CORNER:

100 ISO - Main LCD was ON
100 ISO
200 ISO
400 ISO (bottom left corner)
800 ISO
1600 ISO (bottom right corner)

edit:  Happily (?) we see none of the vertical banding that's plagued many of Canon's recent sensors!

Pi

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Re: 70D black-cap tests
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2013, 04:37:34 PM »
Hi,
    Different between Canon RAW and Nikon RAW: if you shoot at the highest shutter speed with lens cap on, the mean value is 2048 for 60D (if I remember correctly) and Nikon is 0.

    I think that's because Canon RAW files retain the bias level information in the RAW files, but Nikon remove it... that's why Astrophotographer prefer Canon DSLR over Nikon DSLR as they can calibrate the image properly for Canon RAW files.

    Have a nice day.

I believe that Canon keeps (most) negative noise levels, which is good; and Nikon cuts them. In any case, the Raw converter should "know" that.

Pi

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Re: 70D black-cap tests
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2013, 04:38:31 PM »
edit:  Happily (?) we see none of the vertical banding that's plagued many of Canon's recent sensors!

This is good. Thank you for doing this.

vlim

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Re: 70D black-cap tests
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2013, 04:47:36 PM »
So beside the sensor and all the discussions about it, you've got it in your hand, is it a good body, better than the 7D ? can you post some photos there please :

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=16703.0
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 04:50:32 PM by vlim »

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Re: 70D black-cap tests
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2013, 04:47:36 PM »

Aglet

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Re: 70D black-cap tests
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2013, 05:07:43 PM »
So beside the sensor and all the discussions about it, you've got it in your hand, is it a good body, better than the 7D ? can you post some photos there please :

Sorry, I don't have the 70D.  Nor am I likely to any time soon as I have no immediate need for it.
I'm waiting to see how the 7D2 and the D400 shake out in the next year. (Kind of hoping the 7d2 will do what I want, fewer lenses to convert saves me money)

I think it's a "good enough" body, similar to the 60D.
I found most aspects of it agreeable, I would buy it if I were in the market for such a camera.  Lots of great features and now, finally, pretty much free of the worst kinds of pattern noise problems. (YMMV)

I'd say 70D's IQ will be better than the 7D's in those circumstances where higher DR scenes may prompt the user to lift dark areas. 7D is certainly a more solid and rugged feeling body.
At price points not too different right now, I'd chose the 70D for better IQ, the 7D for slightly more speed and a more robust body.


This is good. Thank you for doing this.

You're welcome. :)
I know there are some of us who get something useful from this kind of information.

vlim

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Re: 70D black-cap tests - Now with samples
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 05:22:31 PM »
Thanks for your answer.

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Re: 70D black-cap tests - Now with samples
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 05:22:31 PM »