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Author Topic: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?  (Read 14652 times)

sarakoth

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 02:58:28 AM »
As a few have said, strongly consider a 6D.. even though the 70D had just been announced at the time I upgraded my 500D to a 6D as I didn't think the 70D would improve much on overall IQ and it seemed there was not going to be a huge difference in price. Now the real world tests are out it seems like I was right as far as IQ goes.

To me the 70D and it's advantages are are around taking video.. if you are doing mainly stills, want to improve the IQ of every shot you take, then have a look at the 6D. Especially low light performance. Otherwise at least wait as the RRP for the 70D will no doubt drop by Christmas and you may get a confirmation of the 7D2 specs by then.

The downside of the 6D is no on camera flash (so allow for a speedlite) and outer AF only works in good lights (but the center is amazing in low light to make up for this).


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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 02:58:28 AM »

vlim

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 04:56:18 AM »
Quote
Otherwise, I'd either buy the cheaper one (the 70D)

Actually the 7d is cheaper than the 70D (at least here in France i've seen it at 999 €)

 8)

skfla

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2013, 06:16:28 AM »

My real expectation of upgrading from a 550d to a 70d is:-

  Significant improvements (for me):-

          Low light capability for the concerts and indoor or other low-light shots.  Seems to me there should be a noticeable improvement?
          AF performance and flexibility, especially for the birds in flight and low light situations.  I’m thinking this should be the real deal clincher? 

I guess there are other things, I do very occasionally video things so the new Live View AF looks like a big jump and of course the touch / vari-angle screen will be a genuine step forwards.

What I’m really after though is opinion on whether the two areas that I point out (AF and low light capability) are genuinely things that I will see a genuine improvement in.  I don’t plan to buy just yet, I will let the price run down first but I’m curious to see if my expectations are roughly in line with reality 

Thanks.

Fyi, I shoot with the 7D (folks keep saying the 70D has the 7D af array) as a back up & I've rented the 6D.  My opinion is that w/ the cameras you've mentioned, you can have one but not both of your key specs. 

      The 6D is incredibly good at focusing in low light. I was incredibly impressed with the camera when I shot in low natural light w/ a prime.  But it's focusing ability is not one I would want in a sports camera.  I don't think you'll feel that there was a great improvement in that area, certainly not 3-4 years worth. 

      I haven't shot with the 70D but most folks keep talking about it's af array being similar/the same as the 7D. If thats the case, it will be huge improvement over your T2i for sports photography.  Once you're used to it, you'll wonder how you ever got a good shot with your rebel.  But as far as low light goes, I had hoped the 70D would have the same capability as the 6D.  I was prepared to buy a 70D when it came out because of this.  Unfortunately, the -3ev sensitive cross center focus point was not given to the 70D (I decided to just stick w/ my 7D partly because of this).  And because of the lack of -3ev focus point, my reading of the spec sheet & experience with the 7D-I don't think you'll see a big improvement in the 70D for your concert/low light shooting. At least not enough to upgrade for. Although, to be honest, I may have been so spoiled by the 6D that even "good" low light focusing now seems just ok.   Anyway, once the reviews come out we'll know a good bit more.

You're smart to wait a while, read the various reviews & watch the price drop a little.  But unfortunately I just don't see one mid-level camera suiting both your main needs perfectly. Regardless, good luck w/ your selection & kudos on your glass selection.  I think you've really managed to squeeze the very best out of your T2i.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 09:33:24 AM by skfla »
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fragilesi

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2013, 08:32:40 AM »
Firstly, to everyone who has taken the time to respond . . .  THANKS!  This is exactly what I was after and I did wonder what might happen after reading some of the recent 70d threads!

I guess it confirmed some things I already knew,  tells me a few things I didn’t and gives me much food for thought:-

Things confirmed:-

    - With the 550d I certainly landed on my feet, for its price point it has always felt a hell of a camera.
    - With the variety of things I like to shoot I need to spend a lot of cash for the camera that excels in low light and focuses like a demon!  It’s not impossible for me to get a 5dMkIII but it would be a fruitless exercise given the severe reduction in life expectancy that would follow my wife seeing the bank statements . . .
   - It’s prudent to wait a bit longer (70d price drops, 7d MkII news possibly), I’m just about to hit 100k actuations on the 550d, I’m not sure how long these things last but at my level there’s still a lot it can help me learn, I'm sure of that much.

Still at issue:-

   - How much better is the low light performance, ISO thoughts seem to be between a third and one stop.  The former is not worth considering for me, the latter would be nice so that needs further investigation!  I’m sure the AF would be better regardless of conditions.  The ISO improvements puzzle me though. 10% more pixels, better processing power . . . you would have thought that from 550d to 70d there would be a real difference to be had there.

  - Full frame via the 6d.  It is only currently 30% or so more but I’d envisage that gap widening especially if the 7dMkII  gets announced any  time soon.  I’d pretty much made my mind up to stick with crops and the superior sounding AF on the 7/70ds nicks it.  I also have the feeling that while a full frame camera might suffer tighter cropping to get similar results it would be harder to lock focus on something smaller in the frame(??).
   

Things I really didn’t know

  - The difference between the viewfinders, this sounds like a real benefit, 99% of the time I use the viewfinder rather than Liveview.
  - I didn’t actually realize quite how close the 7d was in price to the 70d . . . I can pick one up for basically the same price in the UK similar to France (scratches head and wonders if that might not be such a bad idea!).  But then I’d miss the screen and a couple of other things set against the advantages it does have.

In summary I’ll wait, I might also be tempted by that 400mm lens and blow the cash on that instead.  For those in the same or similar boat it would be interesting to see how you get on should you make the jump!

But once again, thanks this has been really helpful.


per_e

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2013, 08:57:54 AM »
I just upgraded from the 450D to the 70D. I mainly shoot stills, mostly wildlife/nature. I use EF24-105 & EF 100-400. I'm very pleased so far. The biggest improvements have been in autofocus, low light noise and general handling of the camera. Also, the higher speed is nice and 20 MP is quite a jump from 12 on the 450D which lets me crop even more:-).
Having the opportunity to shoot an occasional video might prove useful - but you all ready have that of course.

paul13walnut5

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2013, 09:15:16 AM »

    - With the 550d I certainly landed on my feet, for its price point it has always felt a hell of a camera.
   
   - It’s prudent to wait a bit longer (70d price drops, 7d MkII news possibly), I’m just about to hit 100k actuations on the 550d, I’m not sure how long these things last but at my level there’s still a lot it can help me learn, I'm sure of that much.


True, it is.  And also, True, it is.

Your 550D might be nearing it's tested shutter durability, some keep going much longer, some fail much sooner.
You have a working camera for now it seems so no real need to panic buy.

I haven't suggested full frame because it isn't the answer to your question, or by any stretch, your dilemma. Some folk just like saying full frame full frame a lot I guess.

The 7D and 70D AF is similar in phase mode, but in terms of flexibility and tweaking etc the 7D has more user variables, if you are very serious about AF and want the best possible within budget the 7D still has the upper hand.
Just.  The 70D will probably work just fine out the box, the 7D needs a bit of playing about to get sorted, but it will reward you.

However, keeping shooting with your 550D is fine too.

I would recommend the following, if you don't already..

1. Select the centre AF point only. It's the only cross type.

2. Set the drive rate to burst.  Get a class 10 SD card.

3. Select AiServo for sports and nature.  Track track shoot.  Track track shoot.  This really helps predictive AiServo.  And will help keep things in focus when your mirror is flapping around during a burst.  The small short bursts help you keep things composed and also let the cameras buffer clear, ready for the next important bit.  If you keep your finger on the shutter everything will slow to a crawl.

4. Consider faster aperture lenses.  They will also really really help your AF, especially on your current body, but every EOS DSLR has improved AF with f2.8 or faster lenses.  Something like a 200mm f2.8L is a very fast focusing high quality lens that will also work on full frame if you go that way.  Certainly a brilliant sports lens, if not really long enough for a lot of nature.

5. Consider a mono or tripod.  Especially where any panning is involved.  Mono-pods cheap and have virtually no footprint.  If you pan, you'll pan 10x with a little support.  And this will also really help your AF keep up.

6. Finally, consider JPEGS in good light.  This will also speed things up and clear your buffer giving you more burst depth. 

whothafunk

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2013, 09:26:15 AM »
only thing i dont like about the 7D is that it is REALLY soft when shooting JPEGs. my 550D is sharper than a 7D. 70D is even sharper. same story with the ISO. other than that, terrific dslr the 7D
Canon 70D -- Canon 550D -- Canon 8-15L f4 Fisheye USM -- Canon 70-200L f2.8 IS USM II -- Canon 17-55 f2.8 IS USM

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2013, 09:26:15 AM »

paul13walnut5

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2013, 09:27:16 AM »
Have you checked the picture profile settings?

DRR

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2013, 09:27:51 AM »

I haven't suggested full frame because it isn't the answer to your question, or by any stretch, your dilemma. Some folk just like saying full frame full frame a lot I guess.


Yes I don't understand the recommendations for FF either. For what the OP is shooting, a faster crop sensor camera seems to make much more sense. I am not saying that FF is not a worthwhile investment or that you can't shoot any of these things with a FF camera, I just happen to think a faster crop sensor camera is the better tool in this case. All things being equal, sure go FF, but at that point you're looking at a 1DX - no compromises.

•   Nature, most especially birds in flight.

Crop factor and AF speed seem ideal for this.

•   Sports, especially football and cricket.

Again, the ability to get in tighter with the same lens, faster burst modes, and AF speed for quick moving subjects, is ideal for a crop camera.

•   Rock concert photography.

You need the fastest AF and metering you can get for concerts, with moving subjects and constantly changing light.

•   A smaller amount of landscape / architecture photography and occasional macros.

Macro shots again benefit from the crop factor. Landscape/architecture is the only thing on this list that's a clear win for FF cameras. You want to be able to get wide, you can afford to have a slower shutter speed, because your subject isn't moving.

FF is great. The 6D is a wonderful camera. I shoot with a 5D2 and for what I shoot it's a better choice than a crop camera. For what you shoot, I would suggest the 70D or save a few bucks with the 7D. Unless you can afford a 5D3 or 1DX.


preppyak

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2013, 09:28:10 AM »
As a few have said, strongly consider a 6D.. even though the 70D had just been announced at the time I upgraded my 500D to a 6D as I didn't think the 70D would improve much on overall IQ and it seemed there was not going to be a huge difference in price. Now the real world tests are out it seems like I was right as far as IQ goes.
Agreed, and if the OP is getting by doing nature and concert work with a T2i, then a 6D will AF just as well if not better. And what you gain in low-light ability is worth the trade. If you didn't keep the T2i, then you could probably swap your 10-22 for a 17-40 for around the same price

I could also agree with people suggesting the 7D over the 70D, since it's a well-known commodity and a great price right now. Itd be MUCH better for nature and sports work than a 6D, but, it loses the low-light performance against the 6D at concerts. Still, the 7D is plenty capable for landscape work, etc. For BIF work, it;s hard to top
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 09:32:04 AM by preppyak »

jblake

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2013, 01:12:23 PM »
What I find almost impossible to gauge from all the informed opinion and debate about ISO charts, sensor IQ and the like is just how much of  real-world  difference I’d notice and would like the opinions of anyone with greater knowledge than me.  To be clear, that’s pretty much anyone who regularly remembers to take the lens cap off for their first shot .



   If you attached a Canon 85 1.2 L to both camera's, T2i and 70D, and took a photo, I doubt you would see much difference, unless the 85 needed to be micro-adjusted or it would not acquire focus because of the single type outer AF points that the T2i has. High ISO JPEG images would look much better on the 70D as well.

   I have owned and used all the camera's in question and my advice is to purchase the 70D and not the 6D or the over-rated 7D; you will be much happier. I now own the 70D and did own/use the 7D for around eleven months, and bought and used the 6D for about two months.   

   The 7D does not focus very consistently; for my 7D, AI Servo yielded around a 60% hit rate for indoor/outdoor sports. And the IQ was not that great on these RAW images either, a bit soft even when focus was spot on.  I then bought a 1D3, and my hit rate went to over 90% and the 1D3's images were so much sharper than the 7D's images. Goodbye 7D and have never missed it.

   If action/fast moving objects are important for you to be able to capture, then forget the 6D. It is an incredible camera if you understand it's one limitation, the outer AF points. Now you could work around that and just use the center AF point on the 6D and then later in post just crop to re-compose. I did this and the results were pretty good, you just lost some resolution. For me, I need to be able to rely on the outer AF points for composition right then while I am taking the photo, not later in post, so the 6D was sold. If the 6D had the outer AF points like the lowly T4i has, f/5.6 cross type, then I would still have the 6D today and would need no other camera.

   I used my 70D at a local High School night football game the Friday before last, and in between the intermittent rain showers, out of 60 some photo's, all were sharp and in focus; something my copy of the 7D could never do on it's best day. Keep in mind, that I achieved this with just the single AF point, I did not have access to the expanded AF point option like the 7D has. I used the default AI Servo settings straight from the factory for the 70D. This impressed me very much.

   The 70D produces sharper images than the 7D does. The 70D has better IQ with low ISO RAW images than the 7D has, think studio stuff or landscape photography. However, the high RAW ISO images like at ISO 6400, are similar between the two cameras. The JPEG images from the 70D are superior to the 7D at all ISO's.

   The 70D allows you to micro-adjust your zoom lenses at the wide and telephoto ends where the 7D you can only make one micro-adjustment for the entire zoom range, The 70D, from my experience, has better and more consistent auto-focus than the 7D, not even close to be honest. In all fairness, I have not had time to do any BIF shot's, so the jury is still out in that area. The 70D has a silent shutter option which is very nice, similar to the 6D's. And when not in silent mode, the 70D's shutter is quieter than the 7D's, this includes high continuous shooting as well. The 70D is the first DSLR that makes taking video's fun and makes me want to take video's.

   Keep one thing in mind, everything that I just said is only my opinion and nothing more. Just thought I would give you my impressions from my actual experience/take on of these camera's. Good luck with your decision and as you know there is no one perfect camera; the closest to that level of greatness cost around $6800. Way too many confusing and expensive compromises in this hobby.

vlim

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2013, 02:41:47 PM »
Thanks per_e and jblake for your reviews about the 70d in the real life... I'm actually using a 40D and of course i'm thinking about adding another body mostly for wildlife photography and the 70D looks promising one ! i'll take it if it's better body than the ol' 7D ;)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 02:44:25 PM by vlim »

skfla

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2013, 03:41:21 PM »
PS:  for what it's worth, here is one of the early reviews out on the 70D.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_70D/

As an fyi, I've personally grown a little cool on Gordon's reviews since he got on a mirrorless kick a couple years ago. I don't think I'm the only one.  This review has a little bit of a feeling like a fob to the tradionalist DSLR crowd to reestablish some of his cred.  Probably me just reading too much into it but even so.  Regardless though, it is nice to get some additional info on the camera. 

Update:  Digital Rev has their youtube channel review of the 70D uploaded
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 10:15:38 AM by skfla »
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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2013, 03:41:21 PM »

dgatwood

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2013, 01:17:44 PM »

I haven't suggested full frame because it isn't the answer to your question, or by any stretch, your dilemma. Some folk just like saying full frame full frame a lot I guess.


Yes I don't understand the recommendations for FF either. For what the OP is shooting, a faster crop sensor camera seems to make much more sense.

For bird photos, yes, because the crop factor is an advantage in terms of reach.  For concert shooting, no, because the extra couple of stops of usable dynamic range make full-frame cameras really shine.

sarakoth

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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2013, 07:48:50 PM »
My real expectation of upgrading from a 550d to a 70d is:-

  Significant improvements (for me):-

          Low light capability for the concerts and indoor or other low-light shots.  Seems to me there should be a noticeable improvement?
          AF performance and flexibility, especially for the birds in flight and low light situations.  I’m thinking this should be the real deal clincher? 

I suggested looking at a 6D because from these comments.. Low light capability and performance, 6D wins easily. AF performance and flexibility I would suggest is about equal.. BIF 7D/70D but low light the 6D.

I have not used my 6D with BIF so can't comment on that.. I think football (soccer?) and cricket would be fine for most shots, but the higher FPS of the 7D if you want to catch the exact moment the ball is caught or hits the stumps, goes past the keeper, etc would make it more likely to capture. I was quite surprised how well the 6D handled a recent track day I was at after all the negative comments I had heard about it.


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Re: Advice - worth the jump 550d to 70d?
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2013, 07:48:50 PM »