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Author Topic: The Next EOS M [CR2]  (Read 20301 times)

sylvestrerato

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2013, 02:37:03 PM »
I'd be interested in a full frame M... :)

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2013, 02:37:03 PM »

AvTvM

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2013, 02:50:44 PM »
I'd be interested in an M with a built-in EVF. A camera with an awkward  hot-shoe EVF just doesn't cut-it with someone who uses a lot of fill flash.

To me, that sounds like bigger.  In the case of the M, I don't think bigger is better.

Mirrorless APS-C with EVF could be built only slightly larger/heavier than current EOS-M. 

I am not in the least interested in any low-end Canon "M". If Canon wants me to ever buy an "EOS-M", they need to build it
* very compact = not much bigger than current EOS-M
* very capable = IQ, AF, EVF, handling, performance, battery life 500+, Wifi + GPS + Speedlite RT radio controller on-board, fully articulated LCD, fully weather-sealed]
* very reasonably priced = about 200 Euro less than an equally capable SLR [because it is so a hell of a lot cheaper to manufacture; less parts, less mechanical crap, less calibration issues]

Basically, I would buy a full 7D equivalent with 70D sensor+live-view-AF and touchscreen for max.  € 1,200
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 08:13:50 PM by AvTvM »

sneakerpimp

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2013, 03:07:13 PM »
Obviously, the new  "longer" lens to be released with the EOS-M models is the 800F5.6 :)

...which will be a pancake :P
EOS M

Bob Howland

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2013, 04:07:31 PM »
There's no reason why there can't be a body with a built-in EVF and one without.

If Canon (or Canon USA, at least) is having trouble pushing one model, how will they feel about two?  The other problem I see with that is that I'm afraid the two models will have different sensors - a cheap one (T5i/SL1 sensor, no EVF) and a more expensive one (70D sensor, EVF, and bigger).

I don't think the M system can survive with only one camera model. The implication would be that Canon isn't really serious about this system and Canon needs to start treating it like a system, even if a small one. As for using separate sensors for the two models, I agree with those who believe that the 70D sensor (or a close relative) is the minimum that could reasonably be put into any new M body. If not, why not just keep selling the current M body at the current price (or perhaps $100 higher)? That being said, one thing that has always puzzled me is why Canon went to the expense of revising the firmware in a model that was going to be replaced in a few months.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 04:10:58 PM by Bob Howland »

jebrady03

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2013, 04:13:02 PM »
There's no reason why there can't be a body with a built-in EVF and one without.

If Canon (or Canon USA, at least) is having trouble pushing one model, how will they feel about two?  The other problem I see with that is that I'm afraid the two models will have different sensors - a cheap one (T5i/SL1 sensor, no EVF) and a more expensive one (70D sensor, EVF, and bigger).

I don't think the M system can survive with only one camera model. The implication would be that Canon isn't really serious about this system and Canon needs to start treating it like a system, even if a small one. As for using separate sensors for the two models, I agree with those who believe that the 70D sensor (or a close relative) is the minimum that could reasonably be put into any new M body. If not, why not just keep selling the current M body at the current price (or perhaps $100 higher)? That being said, one thing that has always puzzled me is why Canon went to the expense of revising the firmware in a model that was going to be replaced in a few months.

Just a guess... I don't think the price drop would have been enough to get people to buy into the system, the AF needed to be sped up.

TWI by Dustin Abbott

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2013, 04:50:46 PM »
There's no reason why there can't be a body with a built-in EVF and one without.

If Canon (or Canon USA, at least) is having trouble pushing one model, how will they feel about two?  The other problem I see with that is that I'm afraid the two models will have different sensors - a cheap one (T5i/SL1 sensor, no EVF) and a more expensive one (70D sensor, EVF, and bigger).

I don't think the M system can survive with only one camera model. The implication would be that Canon isn't really serious about this system and Canon needs to start treating it like a system, even if a small one. As for using separate sensors for the two models, I agree with those who believe that the 70D sensor (or a close relative) is the minimum that could reasonably be put into any new M body. If not, why not just keep selling the current M body at the current price (or perhaps $100 higher)? That being said, one thing that has always puzzled me is why Canon went to the expense of revising the firmware in a model that was going to be replaced in a few months.

Just a guess... I don't think the price drop would have been enough to get people to buy into the system, the AF needed to be sped up.

+1.  It was a smart move, actually, because there is certainly a buzz over the M that was non-existent three months ago.  It may prove to be the springboard Canon needed to making the line a success with future models.  Price sells - particularly in the North American market
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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2013, 05:17:43 PM »
The next M needs:
- GPS
- WiFi
- flip/swivel rear screen
- built in flash

for the critics, i'd like to add:

- Optical/Electronic VF
- FF sensor
- Amazing AF
- fast(ish) fps
- Dual card slots
- 1000+ shots battery life
- Weathersealed
- Headphone jack
- More physical buttons and dials
- Better ergo/balance with larger grip

Did I miss anything? 

oh wait. i think that's called a DSLR!   ;D ;D ;D

I jest!!!  i LOVE my much maligned mkI.  i don't care what gets added to the next iteration.  Pls just keep it small...
M, 5Dc, 1Dx, some lenses, a few lights

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2013, 05:17:43 PM »

Bob Howland

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2013, 05:25:02 PM »
There's no reason why there can't be a body with a built-in EVF and one without.

If Canon (or Canon USA, at least) is having trouble pushing one model, how will they feel about two?  The other problem I see with that is that I'm afraid the two models will have different sensors - a cheap one (T5i/SL1 sensor, no EVF) and a more expensive one (70D sensor, EVF, and bigger).

I don't think the M system can survive with only one camera model. The implication would be that Canon isn't really serious about this system and Canon needs to start treating it like a system, even if a small one. As for using separate sensors for the two models, I agree with those who believe that the 70D sensor (or a close relative) is the minimum that could reasonably be put into any new M body. If not, why not just keep selling the current M body at the current price (or perhaps $100 higher)? That being said, one thing that has always puzzled me is why Canon went to the expense of revising the firmware in a model that was going to be replaced in a few months.

Just a guess... I don't think the price drop would have been enough to get people to buy into the system, the AF needed to be sped up.

+1.  It was a smart move, actually, because there is certainly a buzz over the M that was non-existent three months ago.  It may prove to be the springboard Canon needed to making the line a success with future models.  Price sells - particularly in the North American market

Or maybe the cheaper upcoming body will be the same as the old body, but with manufacturing costs reduced, for example with a plastic body instead of a metal body.

Etienne

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2013, 05:34:11 PM »
For some reason the current EOS-M video is crappy above ISO800.

An EOS-M II would have to have video comparable to the 70D to interest me, and the dual pixel AF.

So I hope they use the 70D sensor and add a swivel screen. That would make it a sweet little video cam, and great backup for the 5DIII.

c.d.embrey

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2013, 05:46:01 PM »


To me, that sounds like bigger.  In the case of the M, I don't think bigger is better.


A Sony NEX-6 isn't much larger and it has a man sized hand grip http://camerasize.com/compare/#375,351

c.d.embrey

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2013, 06:04:19 PM »


I think we need to remember that we just got the SL, which sounds a lot like what c.d.embrey is looking for.


No, I'm NOT looking for the SL (I wouldn't take one as a gift). When the SL was a rumor I was hoping for a digital EOS IX http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/film/data/1996-2000/1996_eos-ix-e.html?lang=us&categ=crn&page=1996-2000&p=1 An APS-C film camera that used EF lenses.

For a mirrorless the Sony NEX-6 comes closet to what I want.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 06:10:12 PM by c.d.embrey »

RGomezPhotos

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2013, 06:16:38 PM »
If they are going to stay APS-C, I would like to see a GREAT 35mm pancake lens for it.  Or have SEVERAL primes available for it. Sorry, but the Canon lenses for it just aren't good enough.  They need to get a deal with Zeiss to offer some of those tasty lenses available for Fuji and Sony.  Now THAT would be nice!

But it needs MUCH better lens support.  Putting on an adapter (a $160 option) to use your EF/EF-S glass is just not a good option.  At this point.  I'd rather have the Canon SL1.

For what you get and the price, the Canon M is pretty darn nice.  If they had an excellent 35mm with a maximum aperture starting at f2.8, I would consider it.  But they need much better native-lens support and a few more standard options like WiFi.  Really, throw in WiFi and a tilt-able screen and you're getting a Sony NEX 6 for half the price.
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Bob Howland

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2013, 06:55:57 PM »


To me, that sounds like bigger.  In the case of the M, I don't think bigger is better.


A Sony NEX-6 isn't much larger and it has a man sized hand grip http://camerasize.com/compare/#375,351


Now that is a useful website! Thanks!

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2013, 06:55:57 PM »

pwp

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2013, 07:22:30 PM »
At this point.  I'd rather have the Canon SL1...
After checking out a bazillion choices, that's precisely what I have done. The SL-1 is brilliant. I got mine as a travel camera, reluctant to travel again with the weight & bulk of the 5D3 or 1D4. An EF-S 22mm pancake would be the killer extra for this tiny body.

FWIW, the final front-runners were the SL-1, the quite brilliant Olympus OM-D system then the M.

-PW

tcmatthews

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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2013, 08:40:51 PM »
If Canon (or Canon USA, at least) is having trouble pushing one model, how will they feel about two?

Saying this is taking the situation out of context.  You're acting like the 2 models will be comparable to the existing M (one may be and I agree with the rest of your post that a lower spec'd M may retain the 18mp sensor) and that's not even close to the case at hand.

The current M failed initially for 3 main reasons (as you well know); price, AF, lens selection compared to competition.  AF was remedied somewhat (to a very usable degree in my opinion and experience) and the price was slashed big time.  Now the M is selling VERY well - even with the same lens selection and people are VERY happy with what they have in their hands.

A high-spec'd M (DPAF sensor) would be a totally different animal and if Canon announces the M with 2-3 lenses (11-22, 50-ish prime, and telephoto zoom) then it's not even fair to compare the situations.  There will be WAY too many variables that are different and if people can't grasp that then... well...  Sounds like a mental deficiency to me.

I have do disagree on one of your three main reasons.  I do not think that the lens on initial release were a contributing factor.  The biggest issue in the USA besides Auto focus was the lack of store presence.  Unless it is in the stores nobody will buy one.  I just went to the Store played with a Rebel t4i in liveview and decided I hated their touch implementation.  It was the best I could do because nobody has a M around here.

I think that Canon should produce two M bodies.  One much the same as the current body and one with a built in EVF.  Personally if the current M was not ridiculously priced below the Nex 20mm Lens I would have never bought one.  A Nex 6 suits my style better than the current EOS M.  I dislike buying even a point and shoot with out a EVF. 

My existing M Lens (22mm and 18-55mm) are better than the corresponding Nex Lens.  The M has no problem focusing a f1.8 lens.  (I always have to manual adjust focus of my Nex 50mm f1.8.)  The EOS M has better auto white balance.  M has much better build quality than the plastic Nex.

If the next EOS M has a built in EFV, articulating screen, mode selection switch, and a few more manual buttons it would be a very attractive alternative to the Nex6.  That said unless something radically changes my next mirrorless will still be a Nex.  I will not be buying another M until I need to replace my current one as a point and shoot.

I think Canon made a mistake by having the build quality of the EOS M two high for its performance.  The next M will likely be a plastic M. 
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Re: The Next EOS M [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2013, 08:40:51 PM »