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Author Topic: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth  (Read 27995 times)

pknight

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #120 on: September 08, 2013, 01:16:59 PM »
Hmm, I am not sure what everyone is complaining about. Given the terminology, the price is $9.99/mo in perpetuity so long as you sign up before the end of the year. That comes out to $60/yr for these apps, or less than that if you factor in the online storage space option.

I was greatly dismayed with Adobe trying to force everyone to move to the $50/mo "master suite" cloud deal, which is what their prior pricing basically amounted to. Hardly anyone uses just one adobe app, and at $20/mo per individual app, everyone might as well just pay for the master cloud deal. Not everyone, however, has FIFTY PER MONTH of disposable income, particularly freelancers, photographers, etc. who may not have consistent monthly income in order to support a subscription.

Fears of Adobe increasing price are overblown. Given how much hate there is for their Cloud service in general, they know they would lose droves of customers if there was ever even a HINT of a price increase. Most previously existing customers, such as myself, have been wise enough to keep their CS6 license and software, so they will always have something to fall back on. There is no reason not to stand your ground and vote with your pocketbook in the event Adobe ever does try to stick it to you and raise your price unnecessarily.

Over the LONG term, inflation is a perpetual, and seemingly permanent, and fairly simple fact of the fiat currency world. "Paper" money inflates, and prices will eventually inflate with it. I wouldn't expect a sudden price jump from $9.99 to $19.99 in a year...but over five years, I'd expect something along the lines of a move from $9.99 to $14.99 at most (probably less than that). That assumes Adobe doesn't finally learn that lower prices mean more subscribers. If other popular subscription services are any indication, the price should DROP in the long term as Adobe gathers more and more customers. As NetFlix's subscriber base has grown, the price has dropped. I used to spend $30/mo for three discs a month. Now I pay $7.99 for unlimited HD streaming. I wouldn't worry about price creep until it actually occurs, and instead, I would look forward to price contraction over the long haul, assuming Adobe's customer base continues to increase (and, if they produce more packages like this one, say a $9.99/mo deal for freelance digital artists and graphic designers, another for freelance DSLR cinematographers, etc. I suspect Adobe's CC membership will indeed increase.)

At less than $60/yr each for these two apps, that is a very good deal. The monthly price is not too difficult to swallow. And it comes with 20 gigs of online storage space to boot! Personally, I think this is the first good Adobe Cloud deal to come along.

I believe you are wrong about the $9.99 being permanent.  Read any Adobe EULA.  They reserve the right to raise prices at any time.

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #120 on: September 08, 2013, 01:16:59 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #121 on: September 08, 2013, 03:15:08 PM »
I just threw up in my mouth

Why? I'd think that wouldn't be too pleasant experience.

Exactly. And once Adobe realizes this, we may be in business again.

 ;D

Jim O

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #122 on: September 08, 2013, 03:49:48 PM »
I just threw up in my mouth

Why? I'd think that wouldn't be too pleasant experience.

Exactly. And once Adobe realizes this, we may be in business again.

 ;D

Hahaha.

What are you going to use? Corel? It sucks, always has. GIMP? Always been free and full of bugs. Some smaller apps without the feature set? There is nothing comparable to PS. So use the old version you have and live with it, or fork over a few bucks a month. And when you get your next computer and it has a new OS and your old version of PS won't install, don't whine to Adobe. They may have sold you a perpetual license but they didn't promise perpetual support.

I'll wager that Adobe will stick with this arrangement going forward for five years and not back down. Businesses, who are their largest customers, like this type of arrangement.

Adobe will be quite happy selling licenses to you for LR and Elements. If you want PS, you will have to go to CC.

The only thing that might change that is if they perceive that they can make more money selling perpetual licenses for individual apps. But it's extremely doubtful that you will never see a CS7.
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jrista

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #123 on: September 08, 2013, 05:43:53 PM »
Hmm, I am not sure what everyone is complaining about. Given the terminology, the price is $9.99/mo in perpetuity so long as you sign up before the end of the year. That comes out to $60/yr for these apps, or less than that if you factor in the online storage space option.

I was greatly dismayed with Adobe trying to force everyone to move to the $50/mo "master suite" cloud deal, which is what their prior pricing basically amounted to. Hardly anyone uses just one adobe app, and at $20/mo per individual app, everyone might as well just pay for the master cloud deal. Not everyone, however, has FIFTY PER MONTH of disposable income, particularly freelancers, photographers, etc. who may not have consistent monthly income in order to support a subscription.

Fears of Adobe increasing price are overblown. Given how much hate there is for their Cloud service in general, they know they would lose droves of customers if there was ever even a HINT of a price increase. Most previously existing customers, such as myself, have been wise enough to keep their CS6 license and software, so they will always have something to fall back on. There is no reason not to stand your ground and vote with your pocketbook in the event Adobe ever does try to stick it to you and raise your price unnecessarily.

Over the LONG term, inflation is a perpetual, and seemingly permanent, and fairly simple fact of the fiat currency world. "Paper" money inflates, and prices will eventually inflate with it. I wouldn't expect a sudden price jump from $9.99 to $19.99 in a year...but over five years, I'd expect something along the lines of a move from $9.99 to $14.99 at most (probably less than that). That assumes Adobe doesn't finally learn that lower prices mean more subscribers. If other popular subscription services are any indication, the price should DROP in the long term as Adobe gathers more and more customers. As NetFlix's subscriber base has grown, the price has dropped. I used to spend $30/mo for three discs a month. Now I pay $7.99 for unlimited HD streaming. I wouldn't worry about price creep until it actually occurs, and instead, I would look forward to price contraction over the long haul, assuming Adobe's customer base continues to increase (and, if they produce more packages like this one, say a $9.99/mo deal for freelance digital artists and graphic designers, another for freelance DSLR cinematographers, etc. I suspect Adobe's CC membership will indeed increase.)

At less than $60/yr each for these two apps, that is a very good deal. The monthly price is not too difficult to swallow. And it comes with 20 gigs of online storage space to boot! Personally, I think this is the first good Adobe Cloud deal to come along.

I believe you are wrong about the $9.99 being permanent.  Read any Adobe EULA.  They reserve the right to raise prices at any time.

That isn't evidence of anything. EVERY EULA says that. Its a pretty standard thing for subscription services (companies HAVE to be able to adapt to changing economic circumstances, and can't be locked into prices that may eventually not support their service.) I wouldn't read into that clause in any way. Adobe will change prices according to demand, inflation, and other economic forces. Sure, they will charge as much as they can, that is the basis of a capitalist market...but people WILL walk when the prices get too high, or when the service doesn't offer what people want.

Again, NetFlix is a superb example of how this works with subscription services...when the company tried to spin off Quickster, dropped Stars Play, and increase streaming rates, DROVES of members literally left the service. The company reversed its policies, shored up its services, increased content offerings, and their members came back.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks Adobe has more power over the customer than the customer themselves regarding price and offerings just doesn't understand market dynamics or the power of the customers "wallet vote."

Jim O

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #124 on: September 08, 2013, 07:29:01 PM »
NetFlix is a superb example of how this works with subscription services...when the company tried to spin off Quickster, dropped Stars Play, and increase streaming rates, DROVES of members literally left the service. The company reversed its policies, shored up its services, increased content offerings, and their members came back.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks Adobe has more power over the customer than the customer themselves regarding price and offerings just doesn't understand market dynamics or the power of the customers "wallet vote."


This is true but also very different markets. Streaming video is/was still an immature market at the time, and growing rapidly. It still is in a period of rapid growth. Netflix's target customer base was mainly young(er) individuals and families. Their business was retail, one consumer at a time, who could easily change their viewing habits.

Adobe has a mature product in a mature market. The product is the same, with enhancements/improvements being added over time, and the way it works is the same. It still resides on the person's computer. Adobe's customer base is businesses and individuals, but I'd venture that most CS buyers and CC subscribers are small to medium sized businesses, be they sole proprietorships like an individual professional photographer or a company like my brother's which I mentioned earlier, which has 15-20 seats. The only thing that has changed for them is that they're paying over time for what they'd buy anyway, and their cash outlays are fully deductible in the year they make them. Also, some improvements are likely to be released more frequently, because new feature sets do not need to be held back for the next release cycle.

The other difference is that streaming video is not a necessity. One can still go to the Redbox and rent a DVD for a dollar. This software suite has few real competitors and so is a necessity for many businesses. For a company with 50-100 seats, the sheer cost of changing, of installing new software on multiple workstations, of training entire staffs to use something different, and of converting from one format to another is tremendous. There needs to be a really good reason to move away from Adobe with all that investment in time and training, and that involves the availability of a suite with comparable features at a significant cost savings to offset the costs of "retooling" and the "hassle factor".  Adobe is the de facto gold standard, not just PS but other tools as well. When a company looks to hire someone for their art or graphics department, they often put in their ad something to the effect of "Must be familiar with Adobe [xxx].". Small price changes, or even price model changes like this are not going to change that, again absent a viable competitor at a really advantageous price that can provide all the tools in a way that interoperates, etc. For a growing company the cost is lower to add five seats this way than to buy five licenses. Cash flow is important to growth, and thinly capitalized, rapidly growing companies would rather shell out a monthly fee than a big outlay that may get in the way of their obtaining the next five seats, and scaling back is easy as well.

My point is that while customers can and do influence the market, a small minority, even a vocal one, may well not have much effect. Consider that when AT&T announced they were putting in data transfer limits in Q2 2010, some people yelled and screamed, and some customers even left. AT&T stuck to its guns and still has huge market share. In fact, it probably unloaded/avoided some users of high amounts of data transfer and improved its margins. It was followed by Verizon in Q3 2011. People yelled and screamed and "threw up in [their] mouth". Guess what? Verizon still has lots of customers. More than any other US provider. In fact they both are gaining users. All this while Sprint has remained "unlimited". Their relative positions haven't changed much according to the following graphic.


Source: http://www.fiercewireless.com/special-reports/grading-top-10-us-carriers-second-quarter-2012

The people who are "grandfathered" into "unlimited" data plans are not really "unlimited" either. If they are in the top ~ 10% they get seriously slowed down by both carriers. That usually equates to around 6GB/month if I recall correctly, a common amount selected by families, and which is cheaper, at least at Verizon, than is the unlimited plan to which some are still grandfathered.

Again, my prediction is this is all much ado about nothing. CC is here and this type of software pricing is here to stay just like data transfer limits, at least until the next and better model comes along.
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #125 on: September 08, 2013, 07:48:06 PM »
I don't know how anyone doesn't think file management in LR isn't superior than just piling on PSD after PSD file in PS.  With Virtual Copy, I can create an unlimited number of versions of a photo - different sizes, different processing, etc, without creating any additional files in the system.  I could create 100 different versions of one photo and still have only one raw file on the system.  The only time I get a new file is when I chose to export one of those versions out to some other format like JPG.

Unlimited and eternal editing history on any image, without having to ever hit "Save".  Edit history in Photoshop has a limited number of steps it can retain, and only during the time that photo is open in PS.  I can pile up literally hundreds of edits on a single photo in LR, go away for a years, come back to that photo and see every editing step I ever took, and can roll the image forward and backward to any previous step.  Let's say that 50 steps ago I converted the image to B&W.  But now I want a color version.  I can roll the image back 50 steps to the last step it was in color, create virtual copy at that point to get a second copy in color, then roll the original forward back to the black and white version.  Now I have two independent copies of the same photo that I can process separately.

This part does sound potentially interesting though. Although I'm not sure that LR has enough processing for my variations to not end up occurring in PS anyway though. I'd have to look into it in more detail again.

And you can save out variations at any point with PS, although each does take a ton of storage space, I guess the variations in LR each take barely any disk space at all then? That could be nice.

I just wonder if I'd have too many variation occurring post LR stage or not to make it matter.
If you are using lightroom, right click edit in photoshop.  You have several options, including edit a copy after processing in lightroom, or before.  In either of those cases, the original remains untouched. 
 
Its just a matter of personal preference, Lightroom is optimized for use by pros who need to organize thousands to  millions of images, and get quick access to them.  It also means you should keyword them (Lightroom has tools to do this quickly). 
 
 
Some prefer to organize images their own way, and that's ok.  If it works for you, great.

cayenne

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #126 on: September 09, 2013, 12:17:49 PM »
I'm confused. Can anyone confirm that there still is a boxed, non-cloud photoshop version available? I thought not. Which to me would be the end of using them. I don't do subscription software. Period. Even if they offered it for a buck I wouldn't want it. I want it installed and then not change it until I see fit (which can be years after I buy it).

Still have CS5 and wouldn't even bother if not for my plan to switch from PC to Mac by the end of the year.

Bonus question: is there a way to buy CS5 for Mac still somewhere?

If not it's going to be a combination of LR3 (which I'm perfectly happy with) and Gimp or something.

Yes:
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65170137-Photoshop-Extended-CS6/dp/B007R0RL7G/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1378743347&sr=8-12&keywords=adobe+photoshop+cs6

I just got Production Premium CS6 suite, with CDs....

Also, even if you buy the download version, CS6 is still stand alone....so, you don't have to worry about that. You can buy CS6 products that are stand alone and not tied to CC

HTH,

cayenne

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #126 on: September 09, 2013, 12:17:49 PM »

cayenne

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #127 on: September 09, 2013, 12:49:35 PM »
Leaving aside the differences and discussion between perpetual license and actual ownership of software

You can't leave it aside. It's a fact.

While I agree with most of what you say, if you want the upgrades from CS3 or CS4, this is a good deal. CS5 it maybe worth waiting.

My understanding is that LR will continue to be marketed as a standalone product, and as part of CC. The rest of CC will not. As I understand it, CS6 is to be the last release in the "CS" series. If all you want is LR this is not a good deal. If you use PS, this is a good deal.

LR, while used by many pros, is positioned to compete with Aperture and other programs like that, which are in large use by non-professionals as well.

BTW, LR versions 4 and 5 were 14 months apart. Version 5 is really an improvement to me. Who knows when 6 will come out?

Adobe's target is not people who do not want to spend $10/month on their software. That is plain and simple.

I'm all in favor of free and open source software (FOSS), but the truth is, my FreeBSD 9.1 desktop that I mostly use as an NAS device, can't beat my Mac.

And again, I'll point out, there is no guarantee that your version of PS will work on the next version of your OS, or the one after that. As long as you are happy with it though, there is no point in CC. I will say that I have generally done an upgrade every other CS cycle. I was still on CS4 and was considering CS6 or waiting since I also was content. With the incentive I got, CC made sense for me. The CS4 to CC upgrade will likely cost me less than the upgrade to CS6 would have, and eventually I would have had to move to CC if I wanted newer features, say in three years or so. Instead, I got the newest LR and PS, and a few things that I use only on occasion. I also get upgrades regularly and semi-automatically with the cloud app that runs on my Mac.

My frustration here is not with you or with Cayenne, but rather a general one. This is a gearhead forum. Let's take you for instance. Again, not to pick on you, but you have the following listed in your signature:

Quote
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8

That's perhaps over $7000 worth of gear that you use to make images. By this forum's standards that may be less than average.

I find it so incredibly ironic that people with so many thousands of dollars worth of gear don't find the software that they use regularly to be worth $10/month. Not just you, but so many people in this thread. C'mon now. How many of you smoke? Subscribe to HBO? Subscribe to Netflix?

I understand it's a change, a paradigm shift for many of you, but look at the numbers. They aren't big.

Well, you can run any version of your OS in a VM (Virtual Machine) as long as you like and that will take care of supporting your version of PS  or any other bit of software that might possibly become unable to run with newer OS updates.

And renting things that you will not need again, is often accepted. I generally see a movie ONCE and never have a need for it again. The few I do want to watch over and over again, I have the option of buying for using as often as I wish.

Renting software used to generate output...is NOT good for the rental paradigm, since if you quit paying, your works YOU created and own, are now no longer accessible to you.  That is the main concern that you seem to have difficulty in understanding. This is different than renting a car or a netflix subscription, this hold YOUR work hostage...those other examples you give do not.

Other companies are literally salivating at the possibility of renting rather than selling software (and lets not get into the semantic arguments about owning software or a perpetual license, I'm talking about you buy it and are free to use it in perpetuity without ever paying the company another cent)......MS has tried this somewhat in the past, as have other companies and have been rebuked by the consumer.

The only way to combat this *is* with your wallet. That is the ONLY thing a publicly traded company will listen to, as that the customer is not their primary concern, they only are beholden to their shareholders.  So, if you don't protest with your wallet, then sure...the battle is lost and many other companies will jump on this bandwagon, which most everyone can see, is not good for the consumer.

Once they have you locked into this paradigm of renting you software, and holding your intellectual property you created with the tools 'hostage'...what is to stop them from jacking up the prices as they wish, and what incentive is there for them to keep trying to innovate and come up with improvements in a quick fashion? Nothing.

cayenne






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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #128 on: September 09, 2013, 04:14:59 PM »
cayenne,

I understand what you are saying, but from Adobe's perspective any creative professional that baulks at $49,99 a month for access to their $3,000 suit of software is not their target market. As I have already said many posters here will fall into the 10% of customers that Adobe expected to disenfranchise, they did the numbers before the change and they believe, in the mid to long term, the new model will generate more money for the shareholders, so far that belief has been supported by the share price and company valuation.

However, Adobe have, again as I have already said, bent over backwards to enable that 10% to keep using their current software even with new cameras (no small expenditure in itself), maintain perpetual licensing with Lightroom, and make this new photographer orientated subscription model at prices any keen hobbyist could easily afford. They will even still sell you new copies of their old perpetual license software, the option you decided worked best for you.

That you don't like most of their options is your prerogative, but get used to it, Adobe believe it is a more solid business model for them and their primary customer base, creative businesses.

unfocused

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #129 on: September 09, 2013, 04:33:17 PM »
Quote
Once they have you locked into this paradigm of renting you software, and holding your intellectual property you created with the tools 'hostage'...what is to stop them from jacking up the prices as they wish, and what incentive is there for them to keep trying to innovate and come up with improvements in a quick fashion? Nothing.

I keep reading this. How is Adobe holding anything hostage?

You always have your original files, whether jpg or raw. Those files are software independent (okay, Raw files get a little "iffy" but that's due to camera manufacturers, not software companies.)

Once you complete your edits, you can save the file in a software-independent format. So you've always got the original negative, and you've even got a final print that you can reproduce in unlimited quantities. What you don't have is every step that you took along the way to create that final image. But, guess what?, for about 160 years of photography, no one had that anyway.

Plus, why assume that your layers will disappear or your psd files will become unreadable? It's far more likely that whatever storage medium you are using will become antiquated and unusable long before the file format.

From the Corel website:

Quote
What File Formats does Paint Shop support?...PSD - Photoshop - Read/Write

cayenne,

I understand what you are saying, but from Adobe's perspective any creative professional that baulks at $49,99 a month for access to their $3,000 suit of software is not their target market.

Maybe, but everyone is also just one community college class away from $19.99 access to their $3,000 suite of software. And, Adobe's student teacher licensing agreement is very broad – even allowing for commercial use of the software.

I don't like what Adobe has done, but repeating the same myths over and over doesn't make them true.
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privatebydesign

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #130 on: September 09, 2013, 04:47:01 PM »

cayenne,

I understand what you are saying, but from Adobe's perspective any creative professional that baulks at $49,99 a month for access to their $3,000 suit of software is not their target market.

Maybe, but everyone is also just one community college class away from $19.99 access to their $3,000 suite of software. And, Adobe's student teacher licensing agreement is very broad – even allowing for commercial use of the software.

I don't like what Adobe has done, but repeating the same myths over and over doesn't make them true.

What is your point? That a person Adobe considers outside their main business base has yet another option to bargain software use. I keep saying Adobe have bent over backwards to take care of that lost 10%, you just mentioned an example I forgot to.

unfocused

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #131 on: September 09, 2013, 04:57:55 PM »

cayenne,

I understand what you are saying, but from Adobe's perspective any creative professional that baulks at $49,99 a month for access to their $3,000 suit of software is not their target market.

Maybe, but everyone is also just one community college class away from $19.99 access to their $3,000 suite of software. And, Adobe's student teacher licensing agreement is very broad – even allowing for commercial use of the software.

I don't like what Adobe has done, but repeating the same myths over and over doesn't make them true.

What is your point? That a person Adobe considers outside their main business base has yet another option to bargain software use. I keep saying Adobe have bent over backwards to take care of that lost 10%, you just mentioned an example I forgot to.

I know it is hard to imagine, but I am in agreement with you.
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Jim O

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #132 on: September 09, 2013, 05:09:09 PM »
Well, you can run any version of your OS in a VM (Virtual Machine) as long as you like and that will take care of supporting your version of PS  or any other bit of software that might possibly become unable to run with newer OS updates.

Anybody got a Mountain Lion disc I can borrow? Legally?


Renting software used to generate output...is NOT good for the rental paradigm, since if you quit paying, your works YOU created and own, are now no longer accessible to you.  That is the main concern that you seem to have difficulty in understanding. This is different than renting a car or a netflix subscription, this hold YOUR work hostage...those other examples you give do not.

Really? So I'm to assume that you need PS or another Adobe product to open your JPEGs and RAW files? Your TIFFs and PNGs? Other graphics programs can even open PSD's. PSD is an open format with its own SDK - http://www.adobe.com/devnet-apps/photoshop/fileformatashtml/. There is no need to make this personal and insult me by saying things like "That is the main concern that you seem to have difficulty in understanding" since your argument is completely and utterly fallacious. I can read well and hold an advanced degree. I understand what you say very well, it just happens to be false. You can scream it from the top of the Empire State Building all day and night but it wouldn't make it any less false. Do you "have difficulty in understanding" this concept? Your indignation would seem far more righteous if it wasn't covered in crap.


Once they have you locked into this paradigm of renting you software, and holding your intellectual property you created with the tools 'hostage'...what is to stop them from jacking up the prices as they wish, and what incentive is there for them to keep trying to innovate and come up with improvements in a quick fashion? Nothing.

More of the same nonsense. Until they make it so you cannot save your output as a TIFF or a JPEG or a PNG or some other open format, they are not holding your intellectual property hostage in any way shape or form. Want to save all of your edits? Save them.

As Chicken Little said:

Quote
The sky is falling...

Anyway, if you don't want to use PS or Adobe products any longer that's cool. 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 05:12:07 PM by Jim O »
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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #132 on: September 09, 2013, 05:09:09 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #133 on: September 09, 2013, 05:09:49 PM »
I know it is hard to imagine, but I am in agreement with you.

Ah that is the source of my confusion  :)

CTJohn

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #134 on: September 10, 2013, 08:36:29 AM »
However, Adobe have, again as I have already said, bent over backwards to enable that 10% to keep using their current software even with new cameras (no small expenditure in itself), maintain perpetual licensing with Lightroom, and make this new photographer orientated subscription model at prices any keen hobbyist could easily afford.
I'm not sure how they're bending over backwards.  I bought a copy of CS5 Extended shortly before the CS6 release.  CR2 files from my 6D don't work on my version of Photoshop.
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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #134 on: September 10, 2013, 08:36:29 AM »