August 23, 2014, 07:42:30 AM

Author Topic: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read  (Read 15892 times)

Sporgon

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2013, 03:14:38 PM »
Hi there,

I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.

Upgrade your glass instead.

I want a better viewfinder and much faster frame rate for shooting fast action.  Tried taking your advice and put my 135L on the Rebel, but the viewfinders no better and it just wont shoot any faster no matter how hard I press the shutter.

Famateur

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2013, 03:41:46 PM »
you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise

There's more to camera's than just the sensor/image quality. It's ergonomics, better AF, speed etc that helps you get that picture.

Absolutely true. Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
They will see zero improvement in IQ from say a T2i to a 7D.
Those who need high frame rate already bought a 7D.

Do you want improvement in IQ, most importantly is glass, then sensor size
upgrading T2i -> T3i -> T4i ... is a no no

People can argue about weather sealing and I agree however unless you have 1DX, you can't shoot under rain all days.

What you meant to say was that all of Canon's current APS-C sensor cameras have close enough IQ to each other so that (if you have no need of improved AF, frame rate, build quality or ergonomics) it makes more sense to upgrade your glass rather than to another APS-C body. Thank you, that's very helpful ;)

That's a great way to restate it. I think the OP meant to offer wisdom about how buying new glass may be a better long term decision than upgrading from the last generation of crop body to the current/new generation. At the same time, just like me, he's a sample of one -- others may have more compelling reasons to upgrade even with a seemingly small improvement in sensor performance.

you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise

There's more to camera's than just the sensor/image quality. It's ergonomics, better AF, speed etc that helps you get that picture.

Agreed. I'll even go a bit further and say that there's more to image quality than absolute sensor performance in ideal conditions. I submit that image quality is often the misnomer used in place of maximum sensor capability.

It sounds like the OP may have meant to say that the maximum sensor capability of the newest generation of crop cameras is not a compelling enough reason to upgrade. That may be true. However, in my opinion, image quality is about exposure, focus, sharpness (even non-hardware-related factors like subject matter and composition). To paraphrase others on this thread, an image from a highly capable sensor and top-of-the-line lens doesn't have much "quality" if it's out of focus or the shot was missed with a slow frame rate.

I guess to sum up:

  • Investment in high-quality lenses is great advice.
  • Sensor capability is improving at a slower rate than in the past.
  • Camera systems are still adding useful features that affect image quality, regardless of sensor capability.

For some, their style of shooting may mean that going with #1 will bring the biggest improvement in final image quality (studio, landscapes, etc.). For those whose subjects move faster and unpredictably or in less-than-ideal conditions, a new camera body that falls into #3 might make more sense for what they need.

As always, this is just my opinion which only really matters to me. :)

Famateur

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2013, 03:43:28 PM »
Hi there,

I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.

Upgrade your glass instead.

I want a better viewfinder and much faster frame rate for shooting fast action.  Tried taking your advice and put my 135L on the Rebel, but the viewfinders no better and it just wont shoot any faster no matter how hard I press the shutter.

LOL...that didn't work? Dang! I was going to try that...

duydaniel

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2013, 03:45:22 PM »
so much troll going on but thanks

 :P

you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise

There's more to camera's than just the sensor/image quality. It's ergonomics, better AF, speed etc that helps you get that picture.

Absolutely true. Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
They will see zero improvement in IQ from say a T2i to a 7D.
Those who need high frame rate already bought a 7D.

Do you want improvement in IQ, most importantly is glass, then sensor size
upgrading T2i -> T3i -> T4i ... is a no no

People can argue about weather sealing and I agree however unless you have 1DX, you can't shoot under rain all days.

What you meant to say was that all of Canon's current APS-C sensor cameras have close enough IQ to each other so that (if you have no need of improved AF, frame rate, build quality or ergonomics) it makes more sense to upgrade your glass rather than to another APS-C body. Thank you, that's very helpful ;)

That's a great way to restate it. I think the OP meant to offer wisdom about how buying new glass may be a better long term decision than upgrading from the last generation of crop body to the current/new generation. At the same time, just like me, he's a sample of one -- others may have more compelling reasons to upgrade even with a seemingly small improvement in sensor performance.

you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise

There's more to camera's than just the sensor/image quality. It's ergonomics, better AF, speed etc that helps you get that picture.

Agreed. I'll even go a bit further and say that there's more to image quality than absolute sensor performance in ideal conditions. I submit that image quality is often the misnomer used in place of maximum sensor capability.

It sounds like the OP may have meant to say that the maximum sensor capability of the newest generation of crop cameras is not a compelling enough reason to upgrade. That may be true. However, in my opinion, image quality is about exposure, focus, sharpness (even non-hardware-related factors like subject matter and composition). To paraphrase others on this thread, an image from a highly capable sensor and top-of-the-line lens doesn't have much "quality" if it's out of focus or the shot was missed with a slow frame rate.

I guess to sum up:

  • Investment in high-quality lenses is great advice.
  • Sensor capability is improving at a slower rate than in the past.
  • Camera systems are still adding useful features that affect image quality, regardless of sensor capability.

For some, their style of shooting may mean that going with #1 will bring the biggest improvement in final image quality (studio, landscapes, etc.). For those whose subjects move faster and unpredictably or in less-than-ideal conditions, a new camera body that falls into #3 might make more sense for what they need.

As always, this is just my opinion which only really matters to me. :)

alexanderferdinand

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2013, 03:49:00 PM »
Love my 5D, love my 1Dmk4.
Different tracks, different horses (we had this before here?).
And what would my next upgrade be from my 5D?
Hmm....

neuroanatomist

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2013, 04:00:27 PM »
so much troll going on

They're not hard to spot...but in case you're having trouble, one of these might help you find the troll here...   ::)

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rs

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2013, 05:26:10 PM »
Hi there,

I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.

Upgrade your glass instead.
Does this mean that should you already have a FF body, it's a waste of money buying another, no matter what improved features it has? Medium format is the only upgrade path?
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paul13walnut5

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2013, 05:35:43 PM »
Hi there,

I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.

Upgrade your glass instead.

Thats a great hook.

If you plan to.

Anybody with a DSLR who plans to live more than say 5 years, will probably be considering at some point a move forward with the latest tech.

135 / leica / minature format sensor DSLRs are great, some like the 5D3 seem really terrific, and the 1DX seems superlative.

So I have to agree, that really is sound advice.  Go to a larger sensor DSLR.

Brilliant.


Thanks for that.


I hadn't realised before you made it clear. 

I'm not going to follow your advice though.

135 / leica / minature format would give me a couple of problems.

1. I'd only really be able to stretch to a 6D or a used 5D2.  (and I need better AF than that for my stills, ok needs a bit strong, would like.

2. I'd have to buy new lenses to cover my UWA and WA.  Each at a cost similar to a very good cropped sensor body that my lenses already fit (this is on top of the cost of the 135 / leica / minature format body.

3. I would need 3 bodies to replicate what I have just now.  None would have they very useful flip out screen like my 600D.  None would fit in my pocket like the M.  On a video shoot I usually have 2 x bodies, to save switching lenses all the time and for 2 angle interviews . So I would need at least 2x bodies.

So the cost is racking up, but heres one final operational difference which is a deal breaker for me..

I don't like 135 / leica / minature format bodies for video.  The focusing becomes hyper critical. The APS-C format cameras are much easier to live with in my opinion.  So even if the 135 / leica / minature format DSLRS weren't at least triple the price of a rebel, I still wouldn't be all that bothered about having one.

You love yours, health to use it, but it's a broad old church this photography lark, don't assume my needs are yours or vice versa.  If I ask you what I should buy then feel free to give your advice, but it does smack of flaming and trolling to suddenly proclaim aloud in a must-read post that your way is the only way.

I've had a look through your posts and you're not generally a troll or flamer, this post seems like an abberation rather than the norm.

dgatwood

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2013, 05:40:25 PM »
What you meant to say was that all of Canon's current APS-C sensor cameras have close enough IQ to each other so that (if you have no need of improved AF, frame rate, build quality or ergonomics) it makes more sense to upgrade your glass rather than to another APS-C body.

And even that is only true because Canon hasn't significantly changed their sensors in several years.  If and when Canon decides to increase their megapixel count, it will again be worthwhile to upgrade, assuming you are taking pictures in bright enough light to actually usefully take advantage of the extra resolution.

What you will probably not get out of a crop body upgrade any time soon is dramatically better photos in low light at this point.  Admittedly, there's at least a factor of two potential improvement in quantum efficiency, but actually achieving much more than a few percent is likely to require new materials.

cellomaster27

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2013, 06:33:21 PM »
Hi there,

I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.

Upgrade your glass instead.
Does this mean that should you already have a FF body, it's a waste of money buying another, no matter what improved features it has? Medium format is the only upgrade path?

Haha I knew from the title this was very fishy. I really can't disagree from anyone but this viewpoint so strongly put. I'm not a pro-tog or someone who makes a living off photography and so this really wouldn't help me. Upgrading from a rebel or aps-c sensor dslr, I don't totally disagree BUT what's wrong with them? If you are on a budget of some sort, you won't go out and buy a couple 5D3's or 1Dx's and 20k worth of lenses. In a fantasy world, heck I would buy that and more!

Anyways, and IQ... Seriously. You go medium format. You'll be happy.. I think.  ill stay with the same 18mp sensor and not complain. I'm not gonna print something huge anyways.. My camera pulls some amazing photos! And 18 mp is MORE than enough. Someone say amen?? XD

Oh! And sensor is important but EVERYTHING else is important too! At least for me, ergonomics, fps, versatile, etc.. Like in a earlier discussion on eos-m.. It has the same sensor! (Well maybe not exactly) but its 18mp. Now if someone was to "upgrade" from an eos-m to a rebel or xxD series, I would push for it. That's an upgrade with the basic same 18mp sensor.  I look at the overall general package. I think that's really important.

I sorta appreciate this kind of discussion.. Back to the basics. Don't disagree with the lens upgrade but I think you're wrong with the body upgrade. :)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 07:26:53 PM by cellomaster27 »
Canon stuff

Jim K

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2013, 08:07:57 PM »
I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.

Does that mean I should wait for the rumored medium format Canon? I already own a 5D3.
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tiger82

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2013, 09:16:46 PM »
I think having APS-C, APS-H, and FF offers more flexibility when coupled with lots of L glass.
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paul13walnut5

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2013, 09:22:33 PM »
For what it's worth, canon have long since stopped selling rubbish EF only glass (kit f3.5-5.6 lenses) the 75-300's are probably the last you can buy new.  Please note, I said 75-300's not 70-300's.

So it's good ef primes or decent entry level L zooms to start with.

It's also true that the APS-C cameras really sing with nice glass.  The plastic EF-s kit lenses are now great value for what most hobby, occassional, family photographers need.  Canon do a great job of producing kit that can give great results, with little technical aptitude for little money.

This is a sincere sentiment.  And why 20 years after struggling to switch on my EOS 1000fn I'm still with the system.

If you have an APS-C camera, better glass will give you better images.  Not rocket science that one, but it's true.  And you needn't spend the earth.  Fling in a nifty fifty or shorty forty.  Move onto an 85 or 100mm fast prime as a treat.

Something that will bring your rebels AF to life.

The Big cameras ARE better, but if you can't get a good pic with nice glass on a rebel with the right settings then you are doing something wrong.

Hell, I've seen some folk with the best of gear getting dross results.

The call to spend on glass is usually good.  The call to insist on 135 / leica / minature format is not.  Not for everybody.  For some folk photography is just an enjoyable passtime, regardless of how much money is spent on the kit.  And a rebel is up to that expectation and far beyond.

jdramirez

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2013, 11:40:13 PM »
I went from:
1. 40D to 60D - swivel screen
2. 60D to 7D - better AF
3. 7D to 5D II - better high ISO
4. 5D II to 5D III - better AF + high ISO

5. 5D III to FF mirrorless + a lot of pancake lenses. I don't care who making it - Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji etc....If AF speed is x2 - x3 faster than current RX1, I'm ready to convert.

I really miss my swivel screen.   about half the time  w h en I use live view I wish I had it back. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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Daniel Flather

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2013, 11:51:15 PM »
If the OP wants the best IQ only, then the OP needs an 8x10 view camera with the best lenses and best wet darkroom or killer digital back-end.  Cuz it's all about media size, right?
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