July 22, 2014, 03:56:49 PM

Poll

What do you shot, RAW or JPEG

more than 95% RAW
about 3/4 RAW
50/50
about 3/4 JPEG
more than 95% JPEG

Author Topic: RAW or JPEG  (Read 15203 times)

ajfotofilmagem

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2013, 12:18:57 PM »
When one of my students of photography asks me if should learn and practice RAW processing in Lightroom, I reply that it is only useful in the future if he feel "limited" by the possibilities of correction JPEG. I make sure they learn and practice extensively diaphragm aperture settings, shutter speed, and manual ISO. ;) Only when they are able to consciously choose every setting on the camera, they should start with RAW and Lightroom. I still see many professional photographers shooting in "Green rectangle" because after doing the photos, Lightroom saves your mistakes. :-[ I do not claim that all users of Lightroom think this way, but surely there are many who do. :o
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 12:20:33 PM by ajfotofilmagem »

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2013, 12:18:57 PM »

candc

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2013, 12:29:07 PM »
I think there is a place for both. I have an ef-s 17-85 that I bought and used when it was first introduced. Its a pretty mediocre with visible softness, ca, and distortion at normall viewing sizes.  those things can be corrected pretty well, even automatically with a converter like dxo. In this case the raw workflow is easier and produces better results instead of starting with a jpeg and having to jack around with it.

awinphoto

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2013, 12:36:41 PM »
ahhhhh for the love of God, not another Raw vs Jpeg debate... I've been flamed, dragged through the mud, and shunned for my stance on this topic, but screw it...  There are instances, when depending on what i'm shooting and WHO i'm shooting for, that I will shoot jpeg only (but, i do the highest jpeg and have the camera shooting styles similar to how I typically have my raw settings at anyways).  If i'm shooting for a client and I know they are shooting for print or shooting a model whom I may only have 1 shot at to photograph, damn right I'm shooting Raw, it's not even an arguement.  If i'm shooting a wedding ceremony in a church ISO 1000 and above, damn right i'm shooting raw as well as formals.  BUT, if i'm shooting for a client whom i know going in that they only will be using the files for web use in which the files will be reduced 500%, then screw it, jpeg will be just fine.  Reception work where frankly, they are fillers in which I may have over 1000 images to cull through ALONE, jpegs will do just fine for most of that work.  If i'm shooting just for me or my kids screwing around, jpegs will do just fine.  For the most part, i'm not afraid of missing exposures, i know my workflow and my workflow options, and i know what post production work i may or may not have to do and what I am and am not willing to do given the instance, and I'd rather live my life as a photographer than living my life a slave to the computer processing hundreds of thousands of images, plus storing plus...  it's madness.  Anywho, that's my 2 cents.   

RAW does give you that piece of mind in case you blow it, but I agree with the computer slave part.  One thing that is nice about JPG is you can just focus on the creative aspects of photography and less on post.  It also trains you to be a really good photographer rather than relying on extrended post work to fix errors! 

I do know some clients insist on actual RAW files though, so you should know at least how to use RAW.

All good points...  For the most part, most of the clients I have ever known rarely asks for RAW files, but if they do, its all in the contract before hand and if that's what they want (and pay for), that's what they get.  My point is simply put that is i'm typically not afraid of needing that piece of mind for most my work.  Now situations where 100% i need absolute assurance, like the "first kiss" and stuff like that, where i know can be make it or break it for the whole wedding day, raws are important.  I'm not afraid of Raw and on most my professional portrait work RAWs are they way I go just out of habit if not anything else, but once my files are processed and backed-up on a remote, then RAWs go into the trash bin.  I guess where i'm at in my style and shooting, I shoot the way I want them, if i need to touch up images in post, its usually beyond what Raw can do for me, and i know what needs to be done for how i like them, and my training in photography came way back in the film days where I had to know exposure dead on before I shoot.  My instructors made us for every assignment provide a slide transparency, negative film, and darkroom print of every image so we had no wiggle room of screwing up exposure and fixing it in printing as the transparency would give us away. 
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ajfotofilmagem

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2013, 12:40:30 PM »
100% JPEG ...

I started with RAW when switching to digital (because everybody said so); played with DPP; came to the conclusion that basically I used the same "recipe" over and over and over; adjusted the camera to the same settings and the results out-of-camera are better than those of DPP from RAW files.

A friend suggested I ditch DPP for PhotoShop (this was before Lightroom, etc.); took one look at the pricetag and bought a piece of L-glass instead.

The editing "limitations" of JPEG doesn't bother me ... I'm an old hand at positive films.
It is interesting to note that those who used film for several years, currently do not feel limited by the possibilities of JPEG. ??? On the other hand, people who are expert in software, often are many advantages in RAW. ::) The sun rises for everyone. ;)

privatebydesign

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #94 on: September 26, 2013, 12:44:20 PM »
When one of my students of photography asks me if should learn and practice RAW processing in Lightroom, I reply that it is only useful in the future if he feel "limited" by the possibilities of correction JPEG. I make sure they learn and practice extensively diaphragm aperture settings, shutter speed, and manual ISO. ;) Only when they are able to consciously choose every setting on the camera, they should start with RAW and Lightroom. I still see many professional photographers shooting in "Green rectangle" because after doing the photos, Lightroom saves your mistakes. :-[ I do not claim that all users of Lightroom think this way, but surely there are many who do. :o

Green rectangle is jpeg only on most cameras. It is an idiot/foolproof mode and completely different from P mode.
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Don Haines

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #95 on: September 26, 2013, 12:53:06 PM »
Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you can't set the camera properly for jpegs...

Fo example, an animal runs across a partially treed field. you have about 10 seconds to get your picture and the animal is alternating betwwen sunlight and shade... what you set white balance for?
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wsgroves

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #96 on: September 26, 2013, 12:53:34 PM »
Raw +MJPG here.
I like being able to tweak much more with the RAW file, and as private knows, I would be up a pole with out RAW's on my last shoot lol.

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #96 on: September 26, 2013, 12:53:34 PM »

ajfotofilmagem

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #97 on: September 26, 2013, 12:56:16 PM »
When one of my students of photography asks me if should learn and practice RAW processing in Lightroom, I reply that it is only useful in the future if he feel "limited" by the possibilities of correction JPEG. I make sure they learn and practice extensively diaphragm aperture settings, shutter speed, and manual ISO. ;) Only when they are able to consciously choose every setting on the camera, they should start with RAW and Lightroom. I still see many professional photographers shooting in "Green rectangle" because after doing the photos, Lightroom saves your mistakes. :-[ I do not claim that all users of Lightroom think this way, but surely there are many who do. :o

Green rectangle is jpeg only on most cameras. It is an idiot/foolproof mode and completely different from P mode.
This is the point, brother. There is no good camera for those who do not know how to use properly. :( It would not make much difference if they use Program mode, Aperture priority mode, Speed priority mode. :-[ There is no camera that is foolproof. ;)

awinphoto

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #98 on: September 26, 2013, 01:03:02 PM »
When one of my students of photography asks me if should learn and practice RAW processing in Lightroom, I reply that it is only useful in the future if he feel "limited" by the possibilities of correction JPEG. I make sure they learn and practice extensively diaphragm aperture settings, shutter speed, and manual ISO. ;) Only when they are able to consciously choose every setting on the camera, they should start with RAW and Lightroom. I still see many professional photographers shooting in "Green rectangle" because after doing the photos, Lightroom saves your mistakes. :-[ I do not claim that all users of Lightroom think this way, but surely there are many who do. :o

Green rectangle is jpeg only on most cameras. It is an idiot/foolproof mode and completely different from P mode.
This is the point, brother. There is no good camera for those who do not know how to use properly. :( It would not make much difference if they use Program mode, Aperture priority mode, Speed priority mode. :-[ There is no camera that is foolproof. ;)

Dont tell that to Joe Buissink who shoots jpeg and P mode during multi thousand dollar weddings...  skill trumps all =)
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

privatebydesign

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #99 on: September 26, 2013, 01:10:45 PM »
When one of my students of photography asks me if should learn and practice RAW processing in Lightroom, I reply that it is only useful in the future if he feel "limited" by the possibilities of correction JPEG. I make sure they learn and practice extensively diaphragm aperture settings, shutter speed, and manual ISO. ;) Only when they are able to consciously choose every setting on the camera, they should start with RAW and Lightroom. I still see many professional photographers shooting in "Green rectangle" because after doing the photos, Lightroom saves your mistakes. :-[ I do not claim that all users of Lightroom think this way, but surely there are many who do. :o

Green rectangle is jpeg only on most cameras. It is an idiot/foolproof mode and completely different from P mode.
This is the point, brother. There is no good camera for those who do not know how to use properly. :( It would not make much difference if they use Program mode, Aperture priority mode, Speed priority mode. :-[ There is no camera that is foolproof. ;)

Again somebody seems to be missing the point, if green rectangle is jpeg only then Lightroom can't save you. RAW doesn't make anything foolproof, it does expand you capabilities, I find it hard to understand people who enjoy photography as a hobby or job and spend a lot of money on equipment, endlessly pontificating the "colours and contrast" of a specific lens, but don't embrace that RAW gives you the capability to mimic any of them, jpeg doesn't. As for computer time, in the time it takes to upload your images to your computer it can create identical jpegs to the ones your camera can make. There doesn't need to be any additional time spent when using RAW over jpeg.

But, and this is a big but, I come from my needs and output requirements, I print big and often.

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privatebydesign

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #100 on: September 26, 2013, 01:12:13 PM »
When one of my students of photography asks me if should learn and practice RAW processing in Lightroom, I reply that it is only useful in the future if he feel "limited" by the possibilities of correction JPEG. I make sure they learn and practice extensively diaphragm aperture settings, shutter speed, and manual ISO. ;) Only when they are able to consciously choose every setting on the camera, they should start with RAW and Lightroom. I still see many professional photographers shooting in "Green rectangle" because after doing the photos, Lightroom saves your mistakes. :-[ I do not claim that all users of Lightroom think this way, but surely there are many who do. :o

Green rectangle is jpeg only on most cameras. It is an idiot/foolproof mode and completely different from P mode.
This is the point, brother. There is no good camera for those who do not know how to use properly. :( It would not make much difference if they use Program mode, Aperture priority mode, Speed priority mode. :-[ There is no camera that is foolproof. ;)

Dont tell that to Joe Buissink who shoots jpeg and P mode during multi thousand dollar weddings...  skill trumps all =)

I have no issue with P mode, it is very different to green rectangle. He does shoot P, as I posted yesterday, HE DOES NOT SHOOT jpeg, he shoots RAW 100%.
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awinphoto

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #101 on: September 26, 2013, 01:15:33 PM »
Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you can't set the camera properly for jpegs...

Fo example, an animal runs across a partially treed field. you have about 10 seconds to get your picture and the animal is alternating betwwen sunlight and shade... what you set white balance for?

Your totally overthinking it...  Ok... sunlight WB is approx 5500-6000 kelvin and shade is about 6500-8000 kelvin depending on strength of clouds and or shade and other contaminating light and that is just a difference of adding or subtracting some yellow/red if needed at all.  AWB or daylight and if your exposure is dead on, a little color adjust is super super easy in photoshop/lightroom, takes less than 5 seconds.  It's not like going from sun to incandescent lights or florescents or etc... 
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Sporgon

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #102 on: September 26, 2013, 01:26:25 PM »
I get the impression that those that have begun their photographic career with digital don't realise how much post processing was done with film. Ansel Adams himself was quoted as saying 60% of photography was done in the dark room. Even with transparencies we used to dupe them, adding colour and all sorts of other fiendish things.

The in camera joey undoubtably does a better job than film in terms of being able to 'get it right' straight from the camera; you have many, many more control options. For casual shooting they are now undoubtably better than film. But for anything serious the raw option uses the camera to it's full potential.


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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #102 on: September 26, 2013, 01:26:25 PM »

awinphoto

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #103 on: September 26, 2013, 01:27:51 PM »
I find it hard to understand people who enjoy photography as a hobby or job and spend a lot of money on equipment, endlessly pontificating the "colours and contrast" of a specific lens, but don't embrace that RAW gives you the capability to mimic any of them, jpeg doesn't. As for computer time, in the time it takes to upload your images to your computer it can create identical jpegs to the ones your camera can make. There doesn't need to be any additional time spent when using RAW over jpeg.

This is the point very few people understand...  I shoot professionally.  I know down to a science how long it takes to go through each card, saving each card, processing and culling the raws, time it takes my computer to process 100% of my raws so i can compare side by side and I know that there is a complete different time table from Raw to Jpeg.  I know when I need it and when I dont.  I embrace Raws when I need and when I dont.  I know many professional photographers who shoot just raw, and I know equally if not more who shoot jpegs.  I know turnaround times are vital.  In an industry of additional people trying to be "pros", speed, quality and competency are separating factors.  When I can get away with it, I will shoot jpeg as it gives me a tad speed advantage from shoot to delivery, and typically at that time i'm shooting for delivery.  I'm getting it right in camera.  But if i get repeating work from that client because i'm faster than everyone else, i'm not going to apologize for that.  I know my tools and know what I need to get my job done the most efficiently.  Sometimes that's Raw, sometimes thats jpeg
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Ruined

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #104 on: September 26, 2013, 01:51:02 PM »
...and knowing how to get spot on pics with JPG is just as important as knowing how to do post with RAW.

Let's say you have an event photography situation where you are asked to take pictures of people who are waiting in line to get said picture and immediately reproduce an image via a portable printer for them to purchase.  They want better quality than a cheap polaroid but want the print right after it is taken. Do you really want to be messing around with RAW in lightroom while the clients wait in line to get their picture taken and printed?  Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 01:53:19 PM by Ruined »

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Re: RAW or JPEG
« Reply #104 on: September 26, 2013, 01:51:02 PM »