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Author Topic: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?  (Read 8973 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2013, 12:36:07 PM »
I've noticed that about 50mm on crop or 70mm on FF seems to match the magnification of my eye. In other words, if I look at an object with my naked eye and then through the viewfinder, it appears the same size in my field of vision.

That's going to depend on the viewfinder magnification.  For example, the 7D has a 1x magnificaiton, whereas the T5i/700D's VF mag is only 0.85x.
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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2013, 12:36:07 PM »

Dantana

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2013, 12:45:19 PM »
Not going to get into the debate of what is "normal," but I'm very happy with the original 35mm 2 on crop. It's a nice compact lens with good IQ for the money.
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aroo

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2013, 12:55:16 PM »
I've noticed that about 50mm on crop or 70mm on FF seems to match the magnification of my eye. In other words, if I look at an object with my naked eye and then through the viewfinder, it appears the same size in my field of vision.

That's going to depend on the viewfinder magnification.  For example, the 7D has a 1x magnificaiton, whereas the T5i/700D's VF mag is only 0.85x.

Ah ha! So sensor size has nothing to do with it... Thank you, Neuro. You're a treasure.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2013, 01:22:49 PM »
Ah ha! So sensor size has nothing to do with it... Thank you, Neuro. You're a treasure.

VF magnification determines how big something looks, but the sensor size is proportional to the field of view for a given focal length (although that's affected by viewfinder coverage...for example, the 7D has a 100% VF, you see everything the sensor sees, whereas the T5i has 95% coverage, meaning there are things at the very edge that you don't see in the VF, but that the sensor captures).

Take the example of a 100mm Macro lens shooting a coin at the minimum focus distance for the lens (i.e. 1:1 image magnification)

  • Looking through a 7D, an Indian head gold dollar (a coin smaller than a dime) will appear life sized and just fill the VF
  • Looking through a T5i, that same coin would appear smaller than life size (0.85x), and the stippled edges at the top and bottom would not be visible through the VF, although they would show up in a picture
  • Looking through a 5DIII, that gold coin will appear much smaller than life size (0.71x), but you could put a Canadian quarter next to that little gold coin and still fit both in the frame
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MLfan3

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2013, 03:22:17 PM »
I was pretty psyched about my Sigma 30 1.4 Art, but got some wild purple streaks in some pics so you fail. 
My telephoto lenses are the ultra flawless 100 2.0 and 200 2.8 II.
Is there such thing as a best normal lens (prime or zoom) for crop?  I usually don't need to go overly wide, but just a great general purpose (non-sports) lens that'll do it most the best.
The Canon 24 2.8 IS is currently loosely at the top of the list, but maybe just deal with the size of the 17-55?  15-85?  35 2.0?
Thanks.

no , but you can just get the good Sigma 35mmf1.4 or Canon 35mm f2IS as an almost 50mm equivalent lens for your APS-C.
I think the Canon is a better lens , though the Sigma is considered to be the best at this focal length.

Cannon Man

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2013, 04:07:54 PM »
On a full frame i could go my whole life with only a super high quality 85mm.

Thankfully i don't have to and i can use a lot of variety in my photos with many different lenses.

pwp

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2013, 09:13:22 PM »
Is there such thing as a best normal lens (prime or zoom) for crop?
No.
+1.
I respect concise, accurate posts...you win.   8)

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2013, 09:13:22 PM »

Cory

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2013, 09:52:12 PM »
Then what's the best "normal" prime/zoom combo? 
For telephoto it's clearly the 100 2.0, 200 2.8 II and 100-400.   :-* :D :-*
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verysimplejason

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2013, 11:25:59 PM »
My favorite normal lens would be the Canon 28mm F1.8 USM.  It's not as sharp as my 50mm but very near it in terms of sharpness.  It's not too wide nor too tight for a crop.  I've tried the almost similar Sigma 30mm F1.4 and don't like it that much.  The Canon is simply smoother and focuses faster even in low light.  I've used the 17-55 and 15-85 and found that I like both.  They're just too expensive for me to invest something that I'll not use in the future (6D is coming)... :)

FTb-n

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2013, 12:11:11 AM »
The most versatile "normal" range crop lens is the 17-55.  It's sharp and fast and minimizes the need for a flash.

My favorite "normal" range lens, crop or full frame, is the 40 f2.8 pancake.  Technically, a tad long on crop (like a 64mm on FF), but it's fun to use.  Sometimes, the limited, slightly tighter focal length can be liberating in a way.  No time wasted at zooming for the best framing, you spend more time on you subject and framing with what you have.  (Of course, if it's critical event to cover for someone else, then I use the 17-55 on crop.)
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Zv

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2013, 02:22:17 AM »
I've noticed that about 50mm on crop or 70mm on FF seems to match the magnification of my eye. In other words, if I look at an object with my naked eye and then through the viewfinder, it appears the same size in my field of vision.

That's going to depend on the viewfinder magnification.  For example, the 7D has a 1x magnificaiton, whereas the T5i/700D's VF mag is only 0.85x.

Thanks for this link to luminous lanscape, it was a very informative read! Afterwards I looked up my 7D and 5D2 manual for the viewfinder specs. 5D2 could be better!  :(
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Cory

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2013, 01:58:25 PM »
While I'm at it should I get a 2-stop ND filter for waterfalls?  I'll likely generally try to get these shots earlier or later in the day; hopefully.
Thanks.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2013, 02:09:54 PM »
While I'm at it should I get a 2-stop ND filter for waterfalls?  I'll likely generally try to get these shots earlier or later in the day; hopefully.
Thanks.

Depends on how much blur you want... I'd think at least 3 stops, I sometimes use 10 stops for waterfalls.  A CPL is usually very good for waterfall shots (cuts down on the reflections from water and rocks, and increases saturation of foliage, etc.), and the CPL will cut ~1.75 stops.  The 17-55mm is not an ultrawide lens, so as long as you're not planning to use it on a 10-22mm, you might consider a variable ND filter (B+W, Tiffen, or Singh-Ray, skip the Fader/Genus/etc. versions).
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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2013, 02:09:54 PM »

jd7

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2013, 09:04:27 PM »
Setting aside the question of a "normal" human field of view (I personally can't imagine a rectangular sensor producing anything like it), I've noticed that about 50mm on crop or 70mm on FF seems to match the magnification of my eye. In other words, if I look at an object with my naked eye and then through the viewfinder, it appears the same size in my field of vision. Does anyone know the correct term for this "normal" magnification concept?

I'm not sure I'm correct about this but ... My understanding is that around the 40mm to 50mm focal length - on a 35mm sensor - gives an angle of view (correct expression?) such that the relative sizes of objects at different distances is about the same as what the human eye/brain perceives, and that's what gives the name "normal lens" to lenses around that focal length. 

Have a look at the TDP review of the Canon 40mm pancake lens -
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-40mm-f-2.8-STM-Pancake-Lens-Review.aspx
and compare the scene shot at 35, 40 and 50.  The framing of the foreground is about the same in each case, but the objects further away appear less or more "magnified".

If I'm right, my assumpion is the formula posted earlier in the thread works (assuming it does) because it reflects this.  I haven't tried to do the maths though.

Perhaps I'm wrong?  If so, can anyone explain further?

In terms of field of view , I think human vision is generally a wider field of view than that of a 40mm or 50mm lens, ie a 40mm or 50mm lens (on a 35 mm sensor) gives effectively a crop of what human vision would perceive.

Thanks.

PS - Neuro has already responded about the effect of viewfinder magnification, so my post has nothing to do with that issue.

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jd7

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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2013, 09:07:52 PM »
My favorite normal lens would be the Canon 28mm F1.8 USM.  It's not as sharp as my 50mm but very near it in terms of sharpness.  It's not too wide nor too tight for a crop.  I've tried the almost similar Sigma 30mm F1.4 and don't like it that much.  The Canon is simply smoother and focuses faster even in low light.  I've used the 17-55 and 15-85 and found that I like both.  They're just too expensive for me to invest something that I'll not use in the future (6D is coming)... :)

While I agree with the idea there is no "best", I also think the 28 1.8 makes a very good "normal" lens on APS-C sensor cameras, at least if you don't want to carry the bulk of the 17-55 2.8 (which I think is an excellent zoom lens).  I have never tried the Sigma 30 1.4 to compare though.
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Re: Is There Such Thing As a "Best" Normal Lens for Crop?
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2013, 09:07:52 PM »