December 22, 2014, 06:01:16 PM

Author Topic: CPS Changes  (Read 7400 times)

Krob78

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2013, 09:16:19 PM »
Per the CPS Terms & Conditions (http://www.cps.act.cusa.canon.com/sys/attachments/terms_conditions_revised_2012.pdf):
"Applicant must be a full-time self-employed individual or an employee of a professional imaging business who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images."

So I call myself a self-employed photographer and create still images. Oh yea, and I don't currently get paid for my work because I'm "an artist". I don't think they care all that much, as long as I don't obviously abuse any bit of the program.

Yeah, that would work.  I can also rationalize that I am an employee of a professional imaging business for which I create still images (never mind that I'm using Zeiss cameras to do that!). 

But mostly it's that I haven't needed it.  I can clean my own sensor (and Canon just saved me the trouble with a free clean when I took it in for the lubrication recall).  OTOH, taking it in made me realize that it's pretty easy for me to do that a few times per year (I'm in NJ for business pretty often, and the Jamesburg service center is just a 20 minute drive from where I often need to be).  The real advantage for me would be if I need a repair, and they just cut that incentive by 33%.
Quote
The real advantage for me would be if I need a repair, and they just cut that incentive by 33%.
++1 about that! 
Guess I better get my repairs in before 4th quarter gets here!
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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2013, 09:16:19 PM »

curtisnull

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2013, 10:16:48 PM »
I remember back in the old days of NPS (when I was shooting Nikon) you had to be recommended for membership by a current NPS member and send copies of business license or pay stubs and samples of your work that had been published.
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timmy_650

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2013, 10:45:09 PM »
I just upgrade to gold today. I want to try a full frame body and it was the cheapest way. I could rent it for a day for about $100 locally or get free stuff. I shoot a t2i and not even close to a professional and had no trouble being a silver and gold member. My job is construction, the only picture that are used at work are taking with a cell phone. 

Jim O

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2013, 09:04:19 AM »
The real advantage for me would be if I need a repair, and they just cut that incentive by 33%.

Not entirely. Return shipping is free for CPS Gold members and that is at 100%. On my last invoice it was $23 if I recall correctly. On a low cost repair that may be a substantial percentage of the benefit.

Consider a $250 repair today. The discount is $75. Add the $23 for shipping and your discount is $98.

Now consider how much the same repair would be worth after 10/1. The discount is reduced to $50 plus the $23 for shipping. The net benefit reduction is 25/98 or 25.5%. That's a low number but not that far off from my recent repair of a dropped lens in which the elements were undamaged.

On a $1000 repair the percentage value of shipping is much lower, but the repair discount alone, without shipping, is still twice the annual membership.

A $350-400 repair plus free return shipping (which will be higher next year than this since FedEx goes up every year) will make it a wash, and then you get the cleanings for free.

There is still some value in the loaner service, even at one week, and also in the semi-guaranteed turnaround time on repairs.

For $100 it's repair insurance for me. Same thing for many others and I suspect Canon looked at the numbers and saw that their costs were very high. They made the bar to breaking even for a CPS member higher, but only by a few dollars. To insure a collection the size of yours against repairs, it's really cheap insurance, even with the reduced benefit.

Insurance rates are always rising. There are two ways it's done. Raise the premium or reduce the benefit. A perfect example of the latter is what US property insurers did after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. The changed the deductible methodology. Instead of being a fixed amount as it is for fire or other wind peril, "named storms" now have a deductible that is a steep percentage of the value of the property. I don't recall for sure, but I'm fairly certain they did not reduce premiums correspondingly.

UPS raised their their insurance charges this year, as did FedEx. Again, if I recall correctly, last year UPS got $0.80/$100 declared value. This year I believe it's $0.85/$100.

Canon has been offering a 30% discount at a fixed price and without regard to the value of the collection for awhile now, even as their costs (labor, healthcare, shipping,etc.) have risen. They had a choice to "raise the premium" or to "reduce the benefit". They chose the latter.

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awinphoto

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2013, 11:12:57 AM »
I will say, as a working professional, I find CPS to be invaluable and saw it as a form of recognition many years ago when I was accepted in CPS and frankly to see so many people who are not professionals taking advantage of CPS and knowingly lie to Canon is very disheartening.  Kinda like when amateurs undercut professional photographers and lower the standard of photography across the industry.  I will concede that Canon has allowed this to get out of control by not having tighter restrictions and they need to fix it.  But knowing that a good part of those people who are bringing upon us these restrictions are those who are taking advantage of the program is disturbing....
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neuroanatomist

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2013, 11:18:12 AM »
I will say, as a working professional, I find CPS to be invaluable and saw it as a form of recognition many years ago when I was accepted in CPS and frankly to see so many people who are not professionals taking advantage of CPS and knowingly lie to Canon is very disheartening.  Kinda like when amateurs undercut professional photographers and lower the standard of photography across the industry.  I will concede that Canon has allowed this to get out of control by not having tighter restrictions and they need to fix it.  But knowing that a good part of those people who are bringing upon us these restrictions are those who are taking advantage of the program is disturbing....

Joining Nikon Professional Services requires sponsorship by a current NPS member (similar to most scientific societies, although they usually require sponsorship by two active members except for student memberships). 
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awinphoto

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 11:28:45 AM »
I will say, as a working professional, I find CPS to be invaluable and saw it as a form of recognition many years ago when I was accepted in CPS and frankly to see so many people who are not professionals taking advantage of CPS and knowingly lie to Canon is very disheartening.  Kinda like when amateurs undercut professional photographers and lower the standard of photography across the industry.  I will concede that Canon has allowed this to get out of control by not having tighter restrictions and they need to fix it.  But knowing that a good part of those people who are bringing upon us these restrictions are those who are taking advantage of the program is disturbing....

Joining Nikon Professional Services requires sponsorship by a current NPS member (similar to most scientific societies, although they usually require sponsorship by two active members except for student memberships).

Yeah... it WOULD be nice to see canon adopt a similar strategy or at least require proof of business or publication or something...  but oh well... 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 11:28:45 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2013, 11:53:58 AM »
Yeah... it WOULD be nice to see canon adopt a similar strategy or at least require proof of business or publication or something...  but oh well...

There's another side the the argument...  NPS is free, whereas CPS is only free at the Silver level (which seems to offer only 'pro standard' repair turnaround, whatever that means...it's not the 3-day you get with Gold). 

The membership fees for the higher levels mean that Canon has a financial incentive to expand the membership base, of course, but it might also mean that some of the program benefits are offset by the fees paid by all those non-pro members.  It appears that NPS offers only priotity speed for repairs, and loaners while an item is being repaired - no repair discount, no evaluation loan program.  Would you trade those last two benefits for a truly 'pro only' CPS?
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awinphoto

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2013, 12:07:06 PM »
Yeah... it WOULD be nice to see canon adopt a similar strategy or at least require proof of business or publication or something...  but oh well...

There's another side the the argument...  NPS is free, whereas CPS is only free at the Silver level (which seems to offer only 'pro standard' repair turnaround, whatever that means...it's not the 3-day you get with Gold). 

The membership fees for the higher levels mean that Canon has a financial incentive to expand the membership base, of course, but it might also mean that some of the program benefits are offset by the fees paid by all those non-pro members.  It appears that NPS offers only priotity speed for repairs, and loaners while an item is being repaired - no repair discount, no evaluation loan program.  Would you trade those last two benefits for a truly 'pro only' CPS?

That's an interesting POV... between the two extremes, I wouldn't mind a nice cozy middle... I wouldn't mind IF perhaps they had maybe did away with their tier system and had a black and white, pro or not pro, but make the cost of entry to be, lets say $300-400 but retain benefits, or maybe utilize the yearly fee as a rebate system towards repairs or equipment or the like...  Maybe 100-200 credit per year that can be used towards rentals/evaluations, repairs, refurbished, etc or can roll over or something like that...  I dont know...  something where it's more of a membership/investment rather than something that is easily abused... 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Efka76

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2013, 12:32:26 PM »
It is very funny to read that professionals complain that amateurs are using CPS :) I will provide you with few my comments:

1) You need to buy eligible equipment in order to qualify for specific CPS status. For Canon its is absolutely not important who buys such expensive equipment - amateur or professional.
2) Gold and Platinum memberships give some advantages, however, you have to pay for such membership.
3) Only professional photographers are accredited to Olympic games, championships and are actually using CPS services such as camera or lenses loans.
4) I would suggest to "professionals" to less complain and put more efforts in their job in order to separate themselves from amateurs. If you are really good photographer you will have better fees than amateurs. However, if your works are similar to amateur work then photography is definitely not for you :)))
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Jim O

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2013, 12:36:56 PM »
I would suggest to "professionals" to less complain and put more efforts in their job in order to separate themselves from amateurs. If you are really good photographer you will have better fees than amateurs. However, if your works are similar to amateur work then photography is definitely not for you :)))

If you have fees and make sales you are, by definition, a professional.
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awinphoto

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2013, 01:08:58 PM »
It is very funny to read that professionals complain that amateurs are using CPS :) I will provide you with few my comments:

1) You need to buy eligible equipment in order to qualify for specific CPS status. For Canon its is absolutely not important who buys such expensive equipment - amateur or professional.
2) Gold and Platinum memberships give some advantages, however, you have to pay for such membership.
3) Only professional photographers are accredited to Olympic games, championships and are actually using CPS services such as camera or lenses loans.
4) I would suggest to "professionals" to less complain and put more efforts in their job in order to separate themselves from amateurs. If you are really good photographer you will have better fees than amateurs. However, if your works are similar to amateur work then photography is definitely not for you :)))

It's funny... reading your comments shows how little you know about the industry and more importantly, the market.  There has been research in the shutter magazine that the costs of weddings have gone up over the last few decades, but the alarming stat is fewer and fewer weddings are done by professional photographers.  The market, as a whole, has been inundated by amateurs and frankly, the skill level and ease of use of cameras really has gone down over the last decade that there are more photographers than ever.  Yes, there is a clear separation by pros and not pro's but that isn't the issue.  The issue is indifference and complacency.  More and more people get low end photography as they dont see a value in it like in decades past.  People are just as happy going to lifetouch or JC Pennys or the picture people and save money.  You dont know how many people get a sticker shock when they see my prices, but my prices are designed to earn me a wage, pay for my equipment, training, retirement, etc.  History has shown that the low cost photography cannot sustain itself, ask Sears Portrait studio and walmart portrait studio how they are doing?  FYI they have all been shut down. 

What it boils down to is more people expect cheap photography, and can care less if a picture was properly exposed, or lit, or even composed.  I even had someone ask my why my pictures are composed (on the rule of 3rds) rather than smack in the middle of the frame.  People are indifferent and that is what is suffocating the industry.  A decade ago, the skill level required to be in the industry was higher.  People had to assist people for years or go to school to learn exposure, darkroom, technique, etc.  They learned the craft up until they can go out on their own and compete toe to toe with their masters, but it isn't the way it is anymore...  Now you have the instant gratification with digital and the skill level isn't where it should be for a professional industry.   
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

awinphoto

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2013, 01:26:48 PM »
And to take it one step further... 20 years ago, people knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, if you wanted good photos, you HAD to go to a pro photographer... There was a clear difference between the consumer 35mm camera and a pro medium format or large format camera...  It wasn't close... Yeah they could take the 35mm rolls of film to a 1 hour photo lab and get 4x6's but, that's where the amatuer/pro comparison ended right there...  yeah they could ask the 1 hr photo lab to print an 8x10 every so often but that was the limits of 35mm.  Now, frankly the difference between what an iphone can do and the 5d3 can do, in a consumers mind, is shrinking day by day.  Consumers typically dont care about noise.  They dont care about composition, etc...  It's good enough.  They dont HAVE to go to a pro to get decent photos that can be blown up to 30x40, they can go to suzie down the street with a rebel digital camera or uncle bob with a 1dx.  Yes, there is a clear difference between pro's and unlce bobs with minimal training, but the problem is indifference.  To a person who doesn't care, the skill level is negligible... price is king.  20 years ago people may not have liked the fact that they had to go to a pro, but it was what it was... and people paid the price, even if they had to save up for it... It made the photos have value and people would hold on to those pictures for decades as it was of value to them.  Now, it's a dime-a-dozen...  end of rant
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2013, 01:26:48 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2013, 01:56:26 PM »
They learned the craft up until they can go out on their own and compete toe to toe with their masters, but it isn't the way it is anymore...  Now you have the instant gratification with digital and the skill level isn't where it should be for a professional industry.

Photography as an art form exists, and will likely remain.  Granted, it's not necessarily a way to make a living, any more than being a fine art painter (the increase in value after the artist dies doesn't help put food on the table). 

But it's certainly true that event photography appears to be on the way out.  That's happened to many 'professional industries' over the years, as technology advances. 

You're a photographer with a business to run.  If you're like many small business owners, you use QuickBooks or similar software, rather than paying an accountant; you do much of your banking electronically (e.g., instant check deposits from an iPhone).  In your personal life, you may use a self checkout line at the grocery or hardware store.  When was the last time you dialed '0' for operator assistance in looking up a phone number?  Those are all examples of easy, convenient technology being placed in the hands of the consumer, and have a side effect of obviating part of the labor force. 

Now, 'Uncle Bob' with a Rebel can churn out 'decent' images suitable for enlargement.  But in most cases, no one even wants them enlarged.  They want them on Facebook, and they want them uploaded immediately.  They're not going to be viewed as a print hung on a wall, or even on a large, color-calibrated monitor...they're going to be viewed on a smartphone. 
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mackguyver

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2013, 02:54:57 PM »
They learned the craft up until they can go out on their own and compete toe to toe with their masters, but it isn't the way it is anymore...  Now you have the instant gratification with digital and the skill level isn't where it should be for a professional industry.

Photography as an art form exists, and will likely remain.  Granted, it's not necessarily a way to make a living, any more than being a fine art painter (the increase in value after the artist dies doesn't help put food on the table). 

But it's certainly true that event photography appears to be on the way out.  That's happened to many 'professional industries' over the years, as technology advances. 

You're a photographer with a business to run.  If you're like many small business owners, you use QuickBooks or similar software, rather than paying an accountant; you do much of your banking electronically (e.g., instant check deposits from an iPhone).  In your personal life, you may use a self checkout line at the grocery or hardware store.  When was the last time you dialed '0' for operator assistance in looking up a phone number?  Those are all examples of easy, convenient technology being placed in the hands of the consumer, and have a side effect of obviating part of the labor force. 

Now, 'Uncle Bob' with a Rebel can churn out 'decent' images suitable for enlargement.  But in most cases, no one even wants them enlarged.  They want them on Facebook, and they want them uploaded immediately.  They're not going to be viewed as a print hung on a wall, or even on a large, color-calibrated monitor...they're going to be viewed on a smartphone.
Good observations and examples, Neuro.  The same thing applies in IT - I was a freelance web designer until the offshore people starting building entire websites for $50 instead of the $4,000 I was charging.  You always have the keep ahead of the curve.  Speaking of which, if you're shooting any products designed in CAD/CAM, the bell is tolling for thee:  http://petapixel.com/2012/08/24/ikea-slowly-shedding-photography-in-favor-of-computer-renders/

Which photographers are next?  Proably all but the kind that require assistants, studios, or very expensive (e.g. super telephoto lenses, pro bodies) equipment.

Best bet is to be a fine art photographer.  As Neuro says, that will always be around.  Take a look at the most expensive photographs - none of them are to my taste or special if you ask me.  Personally, I would have deleted the most expensive photo if I had taken it - clearly I'm not an artist - but look at the prices!!!
http://gizmodo.com/the-10-most-expensive-photographs-in-the-world-866891077

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Re: CPS Changes
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2013, 02:54:57 PM »