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Author Topic: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin  (Read 20233 times)

pinktech

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2013, 11:23:21 AM »
Nah! But sales won't be what they were.

It won't replace a camera for us enthusiasts, because, while pleasant and convenient, it doesn't have the IQ that we demand. There will be advanced P&S for those times when we want to go light. For tech-phobes, you know them, the people with cell phones that do little other than make calls, there will always be a market for basic P&S so they can snap happily in Automatic and take the card out to print at the drugstore or post on Facebook.

I'd expect the selection of mid-range P&S cameras to dwindle, though. The phobes don't buy them now, and regular folk are switching to reasonably good phones, and the 5S sounds like a great camera (I like my 5, btw, esp. when I can edit and post images with relative ease; the better sensor and lens might get me to upgrade). There will be a few niche specialized models like superzooms for sports parents or waterproof for rugged use. Beyond that, though I'd expect far fewer choices than available today. Most images only end up as digitals anyway, and the quality difference between a good smart phone and a medium P&S shot once it's posted to Facebook post is negligible. And there's the convenience of carrying one device that can shoot, edit and post.

Not ready for a coffin, yet, but P&S is not the bright star it used to be, either.

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2013, 11:23:21 AM »

danski0224

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2013, 11:30:38 AM »
People's standards have been steadily dropping.

Really?

Today's cameraphone was unimaginable back when the EOS system was introduced in the late 1980's.

Even then, someone could choose from a Polaroid for instant results or a myriad of film options that required a trip to the drugstore or your own little lab.

I see no difference in the essence of the choices between then and now.

For many, a Polaroid was fine. Others used a 126 (if I remember right). Some chose the 35mm SLR.

The camera phone, P&S and DSLR draw nice parallels, but you can do so much more with a camera phone than a Polaroid.

Same cost parallels between the Polaroid end and SLR end. I paid over $1k for my EOS 620 and some additional bits back in 1987, a hefty premium over a Polaroid camera. 4 x 6 prints were a big deal, and now that is no big deal.

Digital has simply removed the expense of purchasing film and developing it. You don't need a high end computer or monitor to store and view images. You don't need a high end printer, and for simple prints, it is cheaper to print at the drugstore. From what I can see, most of the images taken in my family are never printed, just emailed or shown on a computer.

As a consequence, the meaning or quality of many images isn't there because there are little/no additional costs to see the image.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 11:40:49 AM by danski0224 »
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paul13walnut5

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2013, 11:30:50 AM »
People's standards have been steadily dropping.  As they've gotten used to P&Ss of the past and then the itty bitty cameras in their phones, any photo to many is a good photo. 

I don't know that they have.  From my camera shop days I remember folk taking 6 months to use up a spool of 36 in their compacts because they were scared of the cost.  I sold a lot of folk olympus mjus, I sold a handful of folk a ricoh or contax.  Nowt wrong with the mjus btw.

It would take folk six months to find out that the camera had underexposed, that the flash had given everybody red-eye, or that they had cut the heads off some folk in their group portrait.

I remember the second generation compacts, I'm saying 2MP-4MP generation here, when folk couldn't believe A) how great it was to review the images straight away and B) How many AA's they through and C) how much a 32mb smartmedia card cost.  How much!!?!

The images did get better.  The most obvious mistakes were deleted and only the good ones printed.

I remember when compacts actually got quite good, I'm thinking Nikon 5200, Canon Powershot G5.  Nice glass. Lots of control.  Probably not wanting to push things too much beyond ISO 200 though, eh?

To my mind peoples standards have been improving, but we are big on convenience.  An iphone is good enough for a lot of social fun stuff, and possibly even good enough when you don't have any other camera on you.  The news started showing footage from mobile phones (ALWAYS shot vertically.. c'mon)

The images from the iphone are great.  Democratic almost.  You have the camera in your pocket all the time.
Folk still treat cameras proper with a lot of reverence, oooh it's delicate, ooh its expensive and so great compacts sit in the drawer manual unread, battery uncharged until it's superceded by an iphone.

Compacts have got even better in the meantime, but to buy a compact thats better than an iphone you need to spend a heck of a lot of money.

Convenience is king.  For most.

SwnSng

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2013, 11:52:08 AM »
Although I still think some point and shoots offer more, it's not enough for the general consumer to carry another device with them. With point and shoots the writing has been on the wall for a few years now and it comes down to just a matter of time. Sooner rather than later.

As far as DSLR, camera phones still can't remotely compete. The things it can do well is to take random shots with things that are still. What it can't do well is has been said on this thread: Sports, Low Light, Long distance, etc...


And-Rew

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2013, 12:00:56 PM »
New iPhone final nail in the coffin? Probably - and here's why

My step-daughter is your typical P&S user, just wants to switch it on and take the picture - letting the camera do all the clever stuff. Her iPhone 5 does that more than adequately even in nightclubs where she has to work some times.

But here is the bit that really makes her stop using a P&S - all pictures are automatically backed up via iCloud to her MB Pro & EHD at home. She has a few apps that allow her to process the pictures in all sorts of ways and send as greetings cards or postcards when on holiday. She can also do all the usual process things on the phone such as crop, adjust saturation or exposure, create a panoramic picture, add some filtered effects - and mostly whilst travelling on a bus or train, whilst sitting at home or in a restaurant waiting for food - or similar.

The convenience is just too much and so compact. Having worked in US, Australia, India, Middle East and most of Europe - i can assure you the camera has not failed her yet, and the promoters seem just as happy to use her iPhone jpg's for promotional purposes as she is to put them on her blog or web site.

Are they technically brilliant pictures - no. Would i be happy to have them in my portfolio - not a chance.
But the point is - her and the music industry in which she works seem more than happy with them, and especially the price of the pictures being gained for portfolio and promotional purposes - so sold on her iPhone is she that she sold her P&S on eBay to pay for a larger EHD to store all the extra pictures she was getting because the iPhone goes every where with her when she leaves home!

The P&S only went out if she knew there was pictures to be taken.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 12:05:42 PM by And-Rew »

zlatko

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2013, 12:07:55 PM »
People's standards have been steadily dropping.

Really?

Today's cameraphone was unimaginable back when the EOS system was introduced in the late 1980's.

Even then, someone could choose from a Polaroid for instant results or a myriad of film options that required a trip to the drugstore or your own little lab.

I see no difference in the essence of the choices between then and now.

For many, a Polaroid was fine. Others used a 126 (if I remember right). Some chose the 35mm SLR.

And many used 110 film.  That was the low point for standards.  110 film was far, far below what phone camera will produce today.

DeadPixel

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2013, 12:50:32 PM »
No, the iPhone is not the end of point and shoots, but products like the Nokia 1020 are.  Framework.latimes.com/2013/08/25/review-nokia-lumia-1020/#/0
just look at the 100% crops and beach photos in that link.

 While its no dslr, my Nokia 928 has optical stabilization, Zeiss elements and a xenon flash. 

I've never been a big fan of apple phones and their high price (and their loosing market share worldwide), but their phone camera is certainly nothing special.

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2013, 12:50:32 PM »

Lichtgestalt

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2013, 01:12:00 PM »
Should Canon and Nikon worry about their DSLR sales?

definitely... who would not sell his DSLR to shoot with an iphone?  ::)
 

RLPhoto

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2013, 02:59:16 PM »
I hate my Iphone 5 and unfortunately, I don't have much of a choice beside just waiting for another generation. Apple trapped me here years ago with the 3G, Now it's too much trouble to switch and repay for alot of my stuff. Good strategy apple.

ahab1372

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2013, 07:56:19 PM »
I hate my Iphone 5 and unfortunately, I don't have much of a choice beside just waiting for another generation. Apple trapped me here years ago with the 3G, Now it's too much trouble to switch and repay for alot of my stuff. Good strategy apple.
What's wrong with it? I was considering upgrading to the 5...

RLPhoto

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2013, 08:18:45 PM »
I hate my Iphone 5 and unfortunately, I don't have much of a choice beside just waiting for another generation. Apple trapped me here years ago with the 3G, Now it's too much trouble to switch and repay for alot of my stuff. Good strategy apple.
What's wrong with it? I was considering upgrading to the 5...

Its stagnant. Its playing catchup ever since.

BoneDoc

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2013, 09:11:03 PM »
I never owned an Apple product until 2009 with the 3GS, and I've been a happy customer since.

I have the 4S now, and I wasn't thinking of upgrading (since I have an iPad mini now), until I saw all the improvements on the 5S.  The camera is a sophisticated piece of engineering, both hardware and software.  IMHO, they took the right approach by keeping the MP the same, but enlarging the pixels, along with a faster lens.  The other features is what makes it over the top (and something camera makers should take notice).

IS:  for not having optical IS, this is about as good as it gets.  It shoots a burst of 4 pictures, and then combine it together to get the sharpest possible

FPS:  10FPS... AND it analyzes them to pick the "best" ones.  You can still access the other ones, but at least now, you don't have to waste your time messing with looking at every single frame.  Or if it's an action shot, it will present to you the best sample of the action taken.

120 FPS video: Awesome for those analyzing their golf swing, or making those awesome slo-mo video.  no need for interpolation because you can just use the regular frames at 1/4 the speed.

RLPhoto

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2013, 09:29:20 PM »
I never owned an Apple product until 2009 with the 3GS, and I've been a happy customer since.

I have the 4S now, and I wasn't thinking of upgrading (since I have an iPad mini now), until I saw all the improvements on the 5S.  The camera is a sophisticated piece of engineering, both hardware and software.  IMHO, they took the right approach by keeping the MP the same, but enlarging the pixels, along with a faster lens.  The other features is what makes it over the top (and something camera makers should take notice).

IS:  for not having optical IS, this is about as good as it gets.  It shoots a burst of 4 pictures, and then combine it together to get the sharpest possible

FPS:  10FPS... AND it analyzes them to pick the "best" ones.  You can still access the other ones, but at least now, you don't have to waste your time messing with looking at every single frame.  Or if it's an action shot, it will present to you the best sample of the action taken.

120 FPS video: Awesome for those analyzing their golf swing, or making those awesome slo-mo video.  no need for interpolation because you can just use the regular frames at 1/4 the speed.

All this power and why can't we have an M mode?

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2013, 09:29:20 PM »

sdsr

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2013, 09:39:47 PM »
The reason for the poor sales of point & shoot cameras is more to do with the lack of interest of casual shooters, in any serious camera functions... any decent P&S camera will take better photos than a smartphone ... but casual shooters don't care about most of the stuff a serious photog would, the casual shooters only care about capturing the 'moment' they like and share as fast possible with a device that they are already carrying, regardless of the 'quality' of the image ... like my wife who likes the images of her iPhone ... the other day she took an image of a flower which to me looked very ordinary and bland, but she liked it coz it reminds her of a moment she cherishes ... she doesn't care about shutter speeds, fstops, ISO etc ... I think a vast majority are like that, for them carrying another device (P&S camera) is more of a pain, while they can 'get by' with their camera phone. A case in point is the Samsung Galaxy smartphone with a zoom lens, which has far better options (as a camera) than any smartphone, but it isn't selling like hot cakes.

That sounds about right.  50% of photos taken with iPhones are of plates of food in restaurants that get posted to facebook during the meal; and facebook is probably the destination of most of the remaining 50%.  For such purposes you don't need anything better, and in terms of convenience an iPhone wins every time.  It reminds me a bit of iPods - people seem content to wander around listening to over-compressed audio files via crappy-sounding free headphones as their sole source of music.  In both instances it's probably the case that more people are able to participate than ever before (taking photos, listening to music on the go); maybe for them it's good enough and they fill in the gaps with their imaginations rather than worrying about whether it could look/sound better.

Etienne

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2013, 09:47:25 PM »
I am always amazed when people go googoo for smart phone pics, or even the recent gush-fest over the EOS-M

If it's just a representation of the scene, you got it. But gushing over the IQ of these things? reaally ?

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2013, 09:47:25 PM »