August 20, 2014, 12:47:18 PM

Author Topic: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin  (Read 19003 times)

DeadPixel

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2013, 10:29:53 PM »
Rlphoto,

For those who want the "m", there's Nokia pro camera on their high end windows phones.

Using Nokia Pro Camera you can control settings such as:
◾Shutter speed (1/16000 to 4 seconds)
◾EV value
◾ISO (100 to 4,000)
◾White balance
◾Manual focus

Not nearly the same as a nice canon in M, but more options than the iPhone!

I think the question to ask is really what do the average users do with photos other than digital sharing?  I don't know many people that need or care for more resolution than their camera phone provides, I've used mine to make a few photobooks for friends and they've been thrilled with the results.  Certainly wouldn't make 16x20 with it, but for the average user (I wouldn't consider the Cr forum user average :P) their satisfied and without a strong marketing campaign by he camera oems to convince the masses the point and shoot is superior, their market will continue to shrink. 

its really a classic case of you don't know what you don't know, how many that gush over the IQ even know what a full frame sensor or even a sensel even is? Those are he people fueling the demise of he point and shoot.

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2013, 10:29:53 PM »

Radiating

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2013, 10:44:17 PM »
I don't really get that excited about these sorts of things, but I thought it would be an interesting conversation starter, especially since there is ZERO going on with Canon products these days.

New iPhone:
10 frames per second; in-camera stabilization, white and amber flashes that can be balanced with ambient light, f2.2 lens, larger sensor, slow-motion video. (If I got the specs right)

Announcement was accompanied by a slide showing a DSLR and a boatload of equipment, apparently implying that instead of all that, you can use your iPhone and get the same shots.

Is this the final nail in the coffin for Powershots and other Point and Shoots? Should Canon and Nikon worry about their DSLR sales? Try to think outside your own personal prejudices and look at it objectively. What do you think?

The iPhone 5S is not even close to being a nail in the coffin of DSLRs considering that DSLRs have about 400 times less noise in photos, that's a big deal.

However the iPhone 5S is a nail in the coffin of point and shoots considering it's image quality is better in every measurable and conceivable way.

Pi

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2013, 11:32:57 PM »
However the iPhone 5S is a nail in the coffin of point and shoots considering it's image quality is better in every measurable and conceivable way.

Aren't you exaggerating, just a bit?

ahab1372

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2013, 11:33:25 PM »
All this power and why can't we have an M mode?
Aren't there camera apps that have manual mode?

weixing

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2013, 11:42:18 PM »
Hi,
   IMHO, camera smartphone will definitely affect the sales of low-end P&S, but might actually increase the sales of high-end P&S, mirrorless camera & DLSR.

   Those who interested in photography will get a high-end P&S, mirrorless or DSLR at some point of time. Those who not interested in photography will not buy a decent camera with or without the existence camera smartphone. They might brought a low end P&S to satisfied the need of taking photo in certain occasion.

   With the introduction of camera smartphone, more people will be taking photo and those who initially not interested in photography, might get into the hobby. If they do, they'll eventually get a high-end P&S, mirrorless camera or DSLR due to better image quality... especially the interchangeable lens camera.

   By the way, the "100% view" button on the image viewer is the ultimate larger sensor camera promoter... once you press it, it's hard to resist not to get a better camera... ha ha ha  ;D

   Have a nice day.

Sith Zombie

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2013, 04:52:29 AM »
It seems like pretty much everyone agrees that smartphones will eventually replace p&s. I think DSLR's have stood the test of time and will continue to do so until some RADICAL sensor/lens tech comes along. Although I do think that the market may shrink a bit as more photographers/people decide the iq is good enough for them

BoneDoc

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2013, 04:56:04 AM »
I never owned an Apple product until 2009 with the 3GS, and I've been a happy customer since.

I have the 4S now, and I wasn't thinking of upgrading (since I have an iPad mini now), until I saw all the improvements on the 5S.  The camera is a sophisticated piece of engineering, both hardware and software.  IMHO, they took the right approach by keeping the MP the same, but enlarging the pixels, along with a faster lens.  The other features is what makes it over the top (and something camera makers should take notice).

IS:  for not having optical IS, this is about as good as it gets.  It shoots a burst of 4 pictures, and then combine it together to get the sharpest possible

FPS:  10FPS... AND it analyzes them to pick the "best" ones.  You can still access the other ones, but at least now, you don't have to waste your time messing with looking at every single frame.  Or if it's an action shot, it will present to you the best sample of the action taken.

120 FPS video: Awesome for those analyzing their golf swing, or making those awesome slo-mo video.  no need for interpolation because you can just use the regular frames at 1/4 the speed.

All this power and why can't we have an M mode?

That's not who Apple is.  I'm sure if you jailbreak, someone can potentially create an app to exploit that.  But it's not something Apple is going to develop an API for :).

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2013, 04:56:04 AM »

Rienzphotoz

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2013, 11:52:25 AM »
Lol....yeah, standards aren't especially high in social media. I see crappy pics al, the time with terrible filters on them ala Instagram and comments like "wow, you're an amazing photographer" or "you should be a photographer" and I'm all, wtf, that looks like total S___.  ::)
What is important is the memory and what that image means to the person who made it ... a perfectly shot (meeting/excelling all photographic standards) may not necessarily be a compelling image for most people, but a "crappy" photo/video of a Saddam Hussain hanging is far more "compelling" to people ... at the end of the day its about the moment! Having said that, I do frequently see some awesome images/videos made with an iPhone ... so, I do not agree with your blanket statement that standards aren't high in social media.   
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AcutancePhotography

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2013, 12:05:19 PM »
Rlphoto,

I think the question to ask is really what do the average users do with photos other than digital sharing?  I don't know many people that need or care for more resolution than their camera phone provides, .


What is important is the memory and what that image means to the person who made it ... a perfectly shot (meeting/excelling all photographic standards) may not necessarily be a compelling image for most people

This is what's important.

Photographs are not taken for the same reason. 
There are photographers who are interested in the technical aspects of photography for product or scientific purposes

There are photographers interested in the artistic aspects

And there are photographers interested in an image that either helps them remember an experience or helps them share an experience.

Each type of photographer has a place in our community and each photographer has different camera needs

The reality of it is that a photograph needs to be "good enough" for the specific photographer's purpose. And that means the camera needs to be "good enough" for the specific photographer's purpose.

For many photographers, good enough encompasses ease of carry.

Who determines what is "good enough"?  The individual photographer.
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AcutancePhotography

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2013, 12:21:01 PM »
Lol....yeah, standards aren't especially high in social media. I see crappy pics al, the time with terrible filters on them ala Instagram and comments like "wow, you're an amazing photographer" or "you should be a photographer" and I'm all, wtf, that looks like total S___.  ::)

At the risk of sounding snarky... Duh, its a SOCIAL site. People go there to be social. People, in social situtations, generally are not critical but supportative.

When you are invited to someone's house and they ask you "What do you think of our new drapes?"  What do you say?

If they are a friend, you say "looks nice" even though inside you are cringing. 

Protip:  When someone, in a social situtation, asks you what you think of something, they are not really interested in what you think about it.   ;D

If someone takes the time to post a picture on a social network, there are only two socially acceptable public replies.

1.  Find something nice to complement the photographer on the photograph
2.  Don't reply at all.

I like sharing pictures on Flikr.  I always adopt the schema of complementing in public, and only if necessary, offering a critique via private mail.   I rarely critique photographs as it really is up to the photographer to be freely able to express their art as they see fit.  Its a social site, not a technical photographic evaluation service.  :)

Now if someone specifically asks me to critique their photograph, I will offer them my opinon, but in private.  That way they can either take my opinion as advice or not and no one is embarrased.

When it comes down to it, we need to recognized that our opinions are not as valuable, to others, as we may think.

If Sally tells John that John really should be a professional photographer, and I disagree... so what?  Sally is paying John a social complement.  It is really not worth getting upset about.   ;D ;D
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Rienzphotoz

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2013, 12:32:40 PM »
I hate my Iphone 5 and unfortunately, I don't have much of a choice beside just waiting for another generation. Apple trapped me here years ago with the 3G, Now it's too much trouble to switch and repay for alot of my stuff. Good strategy apple.
Although I did not hate my iPhones (which I've been using since 2009), I sold it yesterday evening (along with my iPad mini) to buy Samsung Galaxy Mega 6.3 ... I really do not like Android and the Google play store, but I'm just a couple of years away from turning 50 and having started to use reading glasses for the last 18 months, I really need a bigger screen ... iPad Mini was perfect for my needs but it wouldn't fit in my pocket and I also had to carry my iPhone ... so after having patiently waited for Apple to release a bigger screen (at least around 5.5 inch) I got fed up and bought the Samsung Mega 6.3 ... but if/when Apple releases a big screen phone, Iphone 'll buy it in a heart beat. Till then I shall suffer the Google's pain in the @ss play store and the cluttered feel of Android:-[   
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AvTvM

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2013, 12:34:59 PM »
The reason for the poor sales of point & shoot cameras is more to do with the lack of interest of casual shooters, in any serious camera functions... any decent P&S camera will take better photos than a smartphone ... but casual shooters don't care about most of the stuff a serious photog would, the casual shooters only care about capturing the 'moment' they like and share as fast possible with a device that they are already carrying, regardless of the 'quality' of the image ... like my wife who likes the images of her iPhone ... the other day she took an image of a flower which to me looked very ordinary and bland, but she liked it coz it reminds her of a moment she cherishes ... she doesn't care about shutter speeds, fstops, ISO etc ... I think a vast majority are like that, for them carrying another device (P&S camera) is more of a pain, while they can 'get by' with their camera phone.

+100 ... Amen!

Additionally I would like to mention that carrying a smartphone plus Point 'n Shoot camera when travelling also involves taking along 2 separate chargers plus cables and finding free wall outlets if you want to charge both of them overnight ... etc. ...  a total inconvenience and something I and many other people really loathe.


Zv

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2013, 07:29:29 PM »
The reason for the poor sales of point & shoot cameras is more to do with the lack of interest of casual shooters, in any serious camera functions... any decent P&S camera will take better photos than a smartphone ... but casual shooters don't care about most of the stuff a serious photog would, the casual shooters only care about capturing the 'moment' they like and share as fast possible with a device that they are already carrying, regardless of the 'quality' of the image ... like my wife who likes the images of her iPhone ... the other day she took an image of a flower which to me looked very ordinary and bland, but she liked it coz it reminds her of a moment she cherishes ... she doesn't care about shutter speeds, fstops, ISO etc ... I think a vast majority are like that, for them carrying another device (P&S camera) is more of a pain, while they can 'get by' with their camera phone.

+100 ... Amen!

Additionally I would like to mention that carrying a smartphone plus Point 'n Shoot camera when travelling also involves taking along 2 separate chargers plus cables and finding free wall outlets if you want to charge both of them overnight ... etc. ...  a total inconvenience and something I and many other people really loathe.

+1 for travel convenience! Also I use my iPhone for taking quick snaps when scouting locations, documents, wifi router info or anything thats written. I also use it as a lightmeter and dof calculater via those apps. And then there's the funny S___ that you have to get quickly. The iPhones camera is easily accessible via the lock screen and it snaps very quickly. I can get about 5 or 6 shots in just a few seconds then delete the blurry ones later. Plus with snapseed you can fix em up.

For paid work and artistic photos or portfolio etc theres always the DSLR.
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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2013, 07:29:29 PM »

discojuggernaut

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2013, 06:12:06 PM »
They probably didn't increase the resolution because probably 3/4 of pics 'shared' with an iphone are destined for FB, and will probably only be viewed on on other smartphones or 1080p monitors/tv's.  Smarter move to increase the sensor pixel size.

Ruined

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Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2013, 08:24:19 PM »
Yeah, I'd go with the Nokia 1020 + Pro Camera app and you can do some pretty awesome stuff.

Rlphoto,

For those who want the "m", there's Nokia pro camera on their high end windows phones.

Using Nokia Pro Camera you can control settings such as:
◾Shutter speed (1/16000 to 4 seconds)
◾EV value
◾ISO (100 to 4,000)
◾White balance
◾Manual focus

Not nearly the same as a nice canon in M, but more options than the iPhone!

I think the question to ask is really what do the average users do with photos other than digital sharing?  I don't know many people that need or care for more resolution than their camera phone provides, I've used mine to make a few photobooks for friends and they've been thrilled with the results.  Certainly wouldn't make 16x20 with it, but for the average user (I wouldn't consider the Cr forum user average :P) their satisfied and without a strong marketing campaign by he camera oems to convince the masses the point and shoot is superior, their market will continue to shrink. 

its really a classic case of you don't know what you don't know, how many that gush over the IQ even know what a full frame sensor or even a sensel even is? Those are he people fueling the demise of he point and shoot.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2013, 08:24:19 PM »