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Author Topic: technique advice for a 600mm II  (Read 4806 times)

luckydude

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 11:04:50 AM »
Hi, me again.

So on the gift thing, this is actually from my parents in a way, it's a thank you for managing their estate; my dad died first and I took care of the finances for my mother for about a decade.  Never took anything for all that work except for this lens.  My dad shot wild life and I suspect he'd both approve and think I'm crazy (which is prolly true).

The tools I have so far to help are a manfrotto monopod (I think the same one as shown in this thread), a gitzmo tripod w/ a ball head (yeah, I know, need a gimbal head, trying to decide between the wimberly and the mongoose).  All left over from my Dad's stuff.

The tripod is pretty useless without mirror lock up and remote release, this is too big of a setup for it to hold it still when the mirror moves.  Is that normal or not?

I've also found on both monopod and tripod that if I don't use IS when just taking a shot w/o remote release then things are blurry.

I haven't yet tried doing multiple shots, I'm doing single shots.  Does everyone use continuous to get keepers?

With the monopod I have to use IS, I can't hold it still enough.

The comments about this being like shooting are spot on.  I target practice with a .30-30 and the feeling is very similar.  No recoil though. 

I don't consider myself particularly buff - I think most people could hand hold this if they prop the left elbow against their chest - I thought that was standard technique for any longish lens?

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 11:04:50 AM »

takesome1

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2013, 11:24:04 AM »
Continuous vs Single would depend on what you are shooting.
Birds in flight, especially taking off would be Continuous.
A deer standing looking at you, your choice but I hate having to pick between 10 identical pictures when I am sorting.

As far as the other things you said, IS on when on the monopod and even the tripod. I do that as well.
Sounds very typical and nothing wrong with leaving it on other than battery life IMO.

The tripod isn't useless without mirror lock up and remote release. Set up right with a gimbal and sturdy tripod it is as light as a feather to sweep and follow birds. Solid as well. Using the gun comparison, it is your machine gun on a turret.

Other than that just go play with it. Best way to learn.

luckydude

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2013, 11:43:34 AM »
Continuous vs Single would depend on what you are shooting.
Birds in flight, especially taking off would be Continuous.
A deer standing looking at you, your choice but I hate having to pick between 10 identical pictures when I am sorting.

As far as the other things you said, IS on when on the monopod and even the tripod. I do that as well.
Sounds very typical and nothing wrong with leaving it on other than battery life IMO.

The tripod isn't useless without mirror lock up and remote release. Set up right with a gimbal and sturdy tripod it is as light as a feather to sweep and follow birds. Solid as well. Using the gun comparison, it is your machine gun on a turret.

Other than that just go play with it. Best way to learn.

This is all the sort of advice I was looking for, thanks.  And I agree on the delete delete delete process.  It's really annoying - you sort of want a way to have a center crop of all of them up at the same time and pick the best.

J.R.

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2013, 12:46:54 PM »

trying to decide between the wimberly and the mongoose


Do consider the gimbal by RRS ... it is freaking awesome for long lenses.
Light is language!

luckydude

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2013, 01:49:49 PM »

trying to decide between the wimberly and the mongoose


Do consider the gimbal by RRS ... it is freaking awesome for long lenses.

Which one and why do you like it better?

I saw the pros on the wimberly mainly being that you mount the lens by setting it on the plate (less likely to drop it) and the cons being the weight.

Pros on the mongoose being weight and cons being that it is a side mount (more likely to drop $16K of stuff, gives one pause).

GuyF

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2013, 02:48:26 PM »
One technique for using a big lens with a monopod is to keep your left hand as far forward towards the open end of the lens hood as possible. Using your hands at both ends of the body/lens combo gives greater control over the heavy lens swiveling about its pivot point (i.e. the monopod). Doing this allows more control when panning and "fine tuning" the balance point. Keeping the left hand really close to the camera body will have the combo wanting to tilt all over the place thanks to that physics slut, Mrs Inertia.

For a pretty cheap but effective gimbal head try Lensmaster http://www.lensmaster.co.uk/index.htm

I bought their RH-2 and got the shot below last night with my 5D3, 500mm mk2 and Kenko 2x TC. (Yes, I've probably over-sharpened it a bit too much but I leave the good stuff to NASA.)

Of course, you could just do weight training and handhold the 600!

Greatland

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2013, 08:31:11 PM »
True! Photographers would make excellent snipers...

Except a dSLR doesn't have much recoil...
And a 1Dx and that 600, combined weigh more than any target rifle that I have ever owned or shot....but the technique suggestion is a good one, but not always possible due to the unpredictability of animals....

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2013, 08:31:11 PM »

CarlTN

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2013, 09:14:54 PM »
One technique for using a big lens with a monopod is to keep your left hand as far forward towards the open end of the lens hood as possible. Using your hands at both ends of the body/lens combo gives greater control over the heavy lens swiveling about its pivot point (i.e. the monopod). Doing this allows more control when panning and "fine tuning" the balance point. Keeping the left hand really close to the camera body will have the combo wanting to tilt all over the place thanks to that physics slut, Mrs Inertia.

For a pretty cheap but effective gimbal head try Lensmaster http://www.lensmaster.co.uk/index.htm

I bought their RH-2 and got the shot below last night with my 5D3, 500mm mk2 and Kenko 2x TC. (Yes, I've probably over-sharpened it a bit too much but I leave the good stuff to NASA.)

Of course, you could just do weight training and handhold the 600!


Nice work and not all that oversharpened...what radius did you use?  I assume this is a 100% crop?  How much better is the Kenko 2x TC, than the Canon series ii 2x TC?

rpt

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2013, 10:43:59 PM »
One technique for using a big lens with a monopod is to keep your left hand as far forward towards the open end of the lens hood as possible. Using your hands at both ends of the body/lens combo gives greater control over the heavy lens swiveling about its pivot point (i.e. the monopod). Doing this allows more control when panning and "fine tuning" the balance point. Keeping the left hand really close to the camera body will have the combo wanting to tilt all over the place thanks to that physics slut, Mrs Inertia.

For a pretty cheap but effective gimbal head try Lensmaster http://www.lensmaster.co.uk/index.htm

I bought their RH-2 and got the shot below last night with my 5D3, 500mm mk2 and Kenko 2x TC. (Yes, I've probably over-sharpened it a bit too much but I leave the good stuff to NASA.)

Of course, you could just do weight training and handhold the 600!


Nice work and not all that oversharpened...what radius did you use?  I assume this is a 100% crop?  How much better is the Kenko 2x TC, than the Canon series ii 2x TC?

+1

Looks great to me too. These monsoon clouds have obscured the moon since June! Hopefully in a couple of weeks they will mostly be gone... Will try with my 400L + 1.4x then.

East Wind Photography

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2013, 11:01:43 PM »
With your setup you should use IS on the tripod.  The new mark ii lens can tell when it's on a tripod.  IS will help cancel vibration from mirror lockup.  It will also help dampen vibration from wind.  Only with a very large and solid mount can you disable IS.  Otherwise your shutter speed will need to be 1/2000 or faster.

Enjoy your gift.  Your dad would definitely approve.

Hi, me again.

So on the gift thing, this is actually from my parents in a way, it's a thank you for managing their estate; my dad died first and I took care of the finances for my mother for about a decade.  Never took anything for all that work except for this lens.  My dad shot wild life and I suspect he'd both approve and think I'm crazy (which is prolly true).

The tools I have so far to help are a manfrotto monopod (I think the same one as shown in this thread), a gitzmo tripod w/ a ball head (yeah, I know, need a gimbal head, trying to decide between the wimberly and the mongoose).  All left over from my Dad's stuff.

The tripod is pretty useless without mirror lock up and remote release, this is too big of a setup for it to hold it still when the mirror moves.  Is that normal or not?

I've also found on both monopod and tripod that if I don't use IS when just taking a shot w/o remote release then things are blurry.

I haven't yet tried doing multiple shots, I'm doing single shots.  Does everyone use continuous to get keepers?

With the monopod I have to use IS, I can't hold it still enough.

The comments about this being like shooting are spot on.  I target practice with a .30-30 and the feeling is very similar.  No recoil though. 

I don't consider myself particularly buff - I think most people could hand hold this if they prop the left elbow against their chest - I thought that was standard technique for any longish lens?

GuyF

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2013, 01:31:53 PM »


Nice work and not all that oversharpened...what radius did you use?  I assume this is a 100% crop?  How much better is the Kenko 2x TC, than the Canon series ii 2x TC?

Carl - Glad you (and rpt) liked the shot.

For info: f11 1/25th at iso 320
Adobe Camera RAW:
Sharp 66
Radius 1.6
Detail 61
Masking 0
(Basically mess around with the sliders 'til it looks okay(!) and also tweak the curves and contrast etc.)

The cropped image ended up 2512*1905 then was resized for posting here.

As for the Canon 2x mk2 TC. No idea! I've had the Kenko 1.4x and 2x DG 300 TCs for a while now. I originally got them for use with my 300mm f2.8 IS mk1. The 1.4x is very good, very sharp but the 2x is pretty soft so I only use it if absolutely necessary. I got the Canon 1.4x mk3 TC free when I bought the 500mm. I haven't compared the Kenko 1.4x to the Canon with regards to speed - I just assume (hope!) the Canon provides faster focussing as it's designed specifically for the mk2 big whites.

Both Kenko TCs aren't worth much secondhand so I'll probably keep them for use with my Tamron 90mm macro. Clearly Canon have a reason for designing their TCs the way they do but the protruding front element really screws up your choices of what lenses you can use with them.

Take care,

Guy.

CarlTN

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2013, 01:49:31 PM »


Nice work and not all that oversharpened...what radius did you use?  I assume this is a 100% crop?  How much better is the Kenko 2x TC, than the Canon series ii 2x TC?

Carl - Glad you (and rpt) liked the shot.

For info: f11 1/25th at iso 320
Adobe Camera RAW:
Sharp 66
Radius 1.6
Detail 61
Masking 0
(Basically mess around with the sliders 'til it looks okay(!) and also tweak the curves and contrast etc.)

The cropped image ended up 2512*1905 then was resized for posting here.

As for the Canon 2x mk2 TC. No idea! I've had the Kenko 1.4x and 2x DG 300 TCs for a while now. I originally got them for use with my 300mm f2.8 IS mk1. The 1.4x is very good, very sharp but the 2x is pretty soft so I only use it if absolutely necessary. I got the Canon 1.4x mk3 TC free when I bought the 500mm. I haven't compared the Kenko 1.4x to the Canon with regards to speed - I just assume (hope!) the Canon provides faster focussing as it's designed specifically for the mk2 big whites.

Both Kenko TCs aren't worth much secondhand so I'll probably keep them for use with my Tamron 90mm macro. Clearly Canon have a reason for designing their TCs the way they do but the protruding front element really screws up your choices of what lenses you can use with them.

Take care,

Guy.

Very true on the protruding element.  I considered getting the Tamron 90mm macro VC, looks like a stellar lens.  I might get one next spring, I dunno.  I got into an argument with an idiot on amazon about it...he was kind of a blowhard.  I can't relate to people like that at all...hahaha.

I only have the Canon 2x ii TC.  Had it for 4 years, it's on long term "loan" from my cousin...who told me I couldn't sell it...haha.  He feels it's not good enough quality for him to use, and yet he wants me to have it and use it...but not sell it!  I've used it on my 135 f/2 and it works ok...but is sharper and better for quasi macro photography with it, rather than for achieving sharpness at or near infinity focus.  I've also tried it on the various super telephoto's I've rented...never all that impressive, but certainly usable for less critical shots.

rpt

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2013, 07:35:55 PM »


Nice work and not all that oversharpened...what radius did you use?  I assume this is a 100% crop?  How much better is the Kenko 2x TC, than the Canon series ii 2x TC?

Carl - Glad you (and rpt) liked the shot.

For info: f11 1/25th at iso 320
Adobe Camera RAW:
Sharp 66
Radius 1.6
Detail 61
Masking 0
(Basically mess around with the sliders 'til it looks okay(!) and also tweak the curves and contrast etc.)

The cropped image ended up 2512*1905 then was resized for posting here.

As for the Canon 2x mk2 TC. No idea! I've had the Kenko 1.4x and 2x DG 300 TCs for a while now. I originally got them for use with my 300mm f2.8 IS mk1. The 1.4x is very good, very sharp but the 2x is pretty soft so I only use it if absolutely necessary. I got the Canon 1.4x mk3 TC free when I bought the 500mm. I haven't compared the Kenko 1.4x to the Canon with regards to speed - I just assume (hope!) the Canon provides faster focussing as it's designed specifically for the mk2 big whites.

Both Kenko TCs aren't worth much secondhand so I'll probably keep them for use with my Tamron 90mm macro. Clearly Canon have a reason for designing their TCs the way they do but the protruding front element really screws up your choices of what lenses you can use with them.

Take care,

Guy.
Guy, I have a question. Why did you opt for f11? Shouldn't you have shot it around f5.6? It is not like one needs any depth of field here. Also the light is not very strong so f5.6, 1/100 and ISO 160 would have been my preferred setting. Could you comment?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2013, 07:35:55 PM »

GuyF

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2013, 01:46:23 PM »
RPT - ah, but you forget the 500mm is f4 and a 2x TC takes it to f8 so f5.6 would be tricky!

As many lenses are sharpest when stopped down a couple of stops, I thought f11 would be a good compromise (I understand that diffraction kicks in around here on the 5D3 but only if you look for it in shots taken beyond, say, f16 - cue the naysayers on that topic!). Clearly depth of field isn't an issue but maximising sharpness/detail was, hence the stopping down. The moon was very bright but you're still shooting through an awful lot of atmosphere which will soften the image. At ISO 320 I wouldn't really have any noise to worry about and with it tripod mounted, I manually focused in Liveview and set things to mirror lock-up, 10sec timer to allow most vibration to dampen down and IS mode 3, crossed my fingers and the rest is history.

Hope that clarifies things.

Guy.

CarlTN

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2013, 02:47:26 PM »
RPT - ah, but you forget the 500mm is f4 and a 2x TC takes it to f8 so f5.6 would be tricky!

As many lenses are sharpest when stopped down a couple of stops, I thought f11 would be a good compromise (I understand that diffraction kicks in around here on the 5D3 but only if you look for it in shots taken beyond, say, f16 - cue the naysayers on that topic!). Clearly depth of field isn't an issue but maximising sharpness/detail was, hence the stopping down. The moon was very bright but you're still shooting through an awful lot of atmosphere which will soften the image. At ISO 320 I wouldn't really have any noise to worry about and with it tripod mounted, I manually focused in Liveview and set things to mirror lock-up, 10sec timer to allow most vibration to dampen down and IS mode 3, crossed my fingers and the rest is history.

Hope that clarifies things.

Guy.

I would have done it similarly!

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Re: technique advice for a 600mm II
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2013, 02:47:26 PM »