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Author Topic: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...  (Read 8019 times)

FTb-n

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2013, 06:34:27 PM »
Yongnuo YN 460ii.  I've collect six of these over the years and they work great.  Very simple and quick to adjust power, no menus to navigate.  I most often use two per umbrella (60" Photoflex in shoot-through) for main light.  This way I can avoid using full power and recycle time is very quick.  Easy to add a couple YN 460's on the background to either get rid of shadows or blow white backdrops out.
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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2013, 06:34:27 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2013, 07:05:31 PM »
Window light/ambient with or without reflectors is the easiest and cheapest way to lower contrast.

+1, but you need a ff camera for that because indoors with ambient from a window you're reaching iso 1600-3200 in no time with sufficient dof & fast x-sync for portrait - I just tried that with the 60d, nice shots, but horrible noise that drowned a lot of details. Actually, that was the last drop in the bucket for me to order the 6d :-p

Not at all, I just shot these for this thread, I'll do some more once it has gone dark.

Late afternoon/early evening and I am getting 1/40 sec @ f2.8 with 100iso only ambient light, that is the first image. The second image is same settings but with an off camera flash on the other side of the head in ETTL. The third image, is 1/100 sec everything else the same, the point is you now have filled shadows on image left. Fourth image is 1/250 all else the same, we now have eve more contrast as the face image left is another 1 1/2 stops under the face image right.
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privatebydesign

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2013, 07:06:01 PM »
Here is a pull back.
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privatebydesign

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2013, 07:08:51 PM »
Now the OP is tripping over himself, you don't need HSS to overcome ambient in normal room lighting at night. Once it goes fully dark here I will redo this with a bounce card if anybody would like to illustrate that. It is very easy to less contrast while using one light in a dull room at f1.8.
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jdramirez

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2013, 07:51:58 PM »
 what aperture?

Window light/ambient with or without reflectors is the easiest and cheapest way to lower contrast.

+1, but you need a ff camera for that because indoors with ambient from a window you're reaching iso 1600-3200 in no time with sufficient dof & fast x-sync for portrait - I just tried that with the 60d, nice shots, but horrible noise that drowned a lot of details. Actually, that was the last drop in the bucket for me to order the 6d :-p

Not at all, I just shot these for this thread, I'll do some more once it has gone dark.

Late afternoon/early evening and I am getting 1/40 sec @ f2.8 with 100iso only ambient light, that is the first image. The second image is same settings but with an off camera flash on the other side of the head in ETTL. The third image, is 1/100 sec everything else the same, the point is you now have filled shadows on image left. Fourth image is 1/250 all else the same, we now have eve more contrast as the face image left is another 1 1/2 stops under the face image right.
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Marsu42

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2013, 07:58:34 PM »
Not at all, I just shot these for this thread, I'll do some more once it has gone dark.

You're actually shooting clay heads :-> ... did you make them for practice? This is a great idea, I also wanted to do that but never came around to it, that's why I have to keep asking friends of mine to pose for paramount, loop & rembrandt lighting :-p

Fourth image is 1/250 all else the same, we now have eve more contrast as the face image left is another 1 1/2 stops under the face image right.

Hmmm, this is not my recent experience - in your shot, you've got a nice window with daylight and you're shooting at rather shallow dof with f2.8.

The day before yesterday I shot in a dimly lit room in the evening with a medium window - and I needed a larger dof and a fast shutter speed because I was doing a portrait of a friend of mine with her dog on her arm. I used the ambient from the window (I didn't measure it) as shadow fill for a flash from the other side as key light - and I was @iso1600 to see any noticeable ambient effect.

I calculate: darker ambient than in your example =  maybe -2 ev ... smaller aperture = another -1 to -1.5 ev. ...and that's for a "flash type" shot, a more natural "ambient style" shot would even need a higher iso setting.

I'm definitely not through trying to mix ambient & flash indoors, so I'm open to other experiences :-) but I think the combination of deeper dof + dim ambient in non-studio situations makes quite a difference.

privatebydesign

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2013, 08:29:28 PM »

Quote
"what aperture?"

As listed f2.8. A bit later I'll do a pull back of one off camera flash with a fill reflector at f1.8 as you listed earlier.


Quote
"You're actually shooting clay heads :-> ... did you make them for practice?"

No it is one my girlfriend made for an art piece years ago, I am always getting in trouble for using it! A far better solution is Styrofoam ones from eBay, they are less than $10 shipped and come in men's and women's styles.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=styrofoam%20heads&_fscr=1
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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2013, 08:29:28 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2013, 09:27:38 PM »
Here is a series when it is pitch black outside.
  • 1Ds MkIII, 50mm f1.4 settings: Camera-M mode, f1.8, 1/250 sec, 100iso; Flash-M mode 1/128 power
  • As above with reflector
  • 1Ds MkIII, 50mm f1.4 settings: Camera-M mode, f10, 1/250 sec, 100iso; Flash-M mode 1/4 power
  • As above with reflector
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privatebydesign

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2013, 09:31:04 PM »
Pull back shot first, and exposure as above 1/250 @ f1.8 with no flash.

You might have noticed the shutter shadow on the image right of the f10 shots, this is an example of the losing one stop limitation Canon warn about when using the RT system remotely on pre 2012 bodies. I am becoming convinced it is an aperture related symptom.

Whilst I did use a fancy flash for this there was absolutely no need to, even the cheapest most basic flash that offers low power (I was at 1/128th power) can shoot at f1.8 and I was only at 1/4 power at f10.

My flash mods were a Large Rouge Flashbender and for a reflector an old bit of foam core that I actually held whilst taking the reflector shots a bit further away than where I leaned it for the pull back shot.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 09:43:56 PM by privatebydesign »
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jdramirez

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2013, 09:54:43 PM »
It actually sounds like my 622c might be miscommunicating with the 580 and rather than communicating via ETTL, it is simply telling the 580 to flash at full.  Which is why I was going to the high speed sync.  Hmm.  Come to think of it, I wasn't able to access the on camera flash control when I was having these over exposure issues.  So maybe I go back to the drawing board and see if I can get the right setting so I CAN shoot at 1/200th of a second and then maybe I will go ahead and get a reflector to soften some of the shadows.   Ugh.  I'm a straight A student that is getting a C in this course on flash... it is frustrating.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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Skirball

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2013, 11:04:50 AM »
It actually sounds like my 622c might be miscommunicating with the 580 and rather than communicating via ETTL, it is simply telling the 580 to flash at full.  Which is why I was going to the high speed sync.  Hmm.  Come to think of it, I wasn't able to access the on camera flash control when I was having these over exposure issues.  So maybe I go back to the drawing board and see if I can get the right setting so I CAN shoot at 1/200th of a second and then maybe I will go ahead and get a reflector to soften some of the shadows.   Ugh.  I'm a straight A student that is getting a C in this course on flash... it is frustrating.

What shooting mode (camera) were you using? 

The flash firing at full power shouldn't send you into high speed sync; and if you were manually bumping up the shutter speed because the flash was too powerful then remember that shutter speed doesn't really have any affect on flash below sync speed.  Regardless of what the issue is, you should have to be dealing with HSS in the situation you describe.

My 622 did the same thing when I first pulled it out of the box.  I'm not sure what I was doing wrong, but I played with it for awhile until I got it to fire properly with eTTL.  I'm not too good with the 622 as I usually just use my manual 602s.  Which, I highly recommend that you switch over to full manual, camera and flash, for these photos.  Your infant is the perfect test subject for that.  If you only have one flash then you can start with ambient and mix in your flash.  Or pick up a cheap second flash and start playing around with studio lighting.  Seriously, and infant child is about as good a test subject as you're going to get (other than yourself), so long as the flashes doesn't disturb him/her.  Just make sure to use modifiers, no bare flash.

jdramirez

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2013, 12:19:55 PM »
 we had a constipation issue with the baby last night so I couldn't see if I figured it'd the problem...  but that resolved itself ask I can do it tonight.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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jdramirez

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2013, 11:30:27 AM »
Ok... so I think there is something screwy going on with the Yongnuo's 622c's.  I start them up, start the camera, the flash and I'm ready to go... and while I can get the flash to go, it isn't on ettl.  So I'm flipping through the settings, manual, Av, Tv... etc... and something like 5 to 10 minutes later it finally registers.  Then I have full access in camera to hss, 2nd shutter, etc. 

I then went ahead and tried to (while Ettl was active) shoot at f/1.8 and it was still OVER POWERING with light.  So stopped the shutter down to f/5.6 (so basically 10X less light was going through to the sensor).  And that's fine, but again... I like the shallow depth of field.  I like the Yongnuo's... but not if they aren't going to work right.  So I am going to see if I can get an exchange and hope the next set works better. 

Seriously... am I expecting something out of the ordinary for ETTL menu to be functional immediately after turning the devices on?  It seems like an ordinary expectation.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2013, 11:30:27 AM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2013, 12:06:16 AM »
Ok... so I think there is something screwy going on with the Yongnuo's 622c's.  I start them up, start the camera, the flash and I'm ready to go... and while I can get the flash to go, it isn't on ettl.  So I'm flipping through the settings, manual, Av, Tv... etc... and something like 5 to 10 minutes later it finally registers.  Then I have full access in camera to hss, 2nd shutter, etc. 

I then went ahead and tried to (while Ettl was active) shoot at f/1.8 and it was still OVER POWERING with light.  So stopped the shutter down to f/5.6 (so basically 10X less light was going through to the sensor).  And that's fine, but again... I like the shallow depth of field.  I like the Yongnuo's... but not if they aren't going to work right.  So I am going to see if I can get an exchange and hope the next set works better. 

Seriously... am I expecting something out of the ordinary for ETTL menu to be functional immediately after turning the devices on?  It seems like an ordinary expectation.
How close was the flash and what is its minimum power? Mine was at minimum 1/128th power at f1.8 and I was using a modifier. Put the flash on minimum power in M and see if you get a good exposure, if you do then ETTL is not working, if it overexposed then you need to move your flash further away or put a ND filter on it.
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Gary W.

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2013, 12:22:24 AM »
Hey all,

    It isn't their least expensive, but close... Yongnuo yn-560III... get this with their 602 or 603 transmitter added on top of your 622 and it keeps your ability to trigger by radio. All for @ $100! Built in radio trigger in a $75 flash is hard to beat!!
 http://yn.eachshot.com/product/yongnuo-yn560iii-yn-560-iii-ultra-long-range-wireless-flash-speedlite_canon/

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Re: Cheap manual flash to use for fill lighting...
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2013, 12:22:24 AM »