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Author Topic: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature  (Read 16163 times)

Orangutan

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2013, 10:10:12 AM »
Let's be honest.  All three people that wanted an EF-mount mirrorless camera already bought one.

I want one but don't yet have one.  My first (consumer) digital camera had an EVF, which I really liked.  I'm very much looking forward to the day that we can leave the SLR mirror on the dustbin of obsolete technology.  Many will argue that a mirror allows them to see the frame as it really is, but I can do that with my naked eye.  I want to see the frame as the sensor sees it, so I have a better idea of what the resulting image will actually look like.

I may well get an M2, but what I really want is an SLR-replacement with fast AF and fast EVF refresh.  The mirror assembly is a waste of space and weight, and impedes the introduction of 36 x 36 sensors to replace "full-frame."  Good riddance.

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2013, 10:10:12 AM »

Don Haines

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2013, 11:10:21 AM »
Let's be honest.  All three people that wanted an EF-mount mirrorless camera already bought one.

I want one but don't yet have one.  My first (consumer) digital camera had an EVF, which I really liked.  I'm very much looking forward to the day that we can leave the SLR mirror on the dustbin of obsolete technology.  Many will argue that a mirror allows them to see the frame as it really is, but I can do that with my naked eye.  I want to see the frame as the sensor sees it, so I have a better idea of what the resulting image will actually look like.

I may well get an M2, but what I really want is an SLR-replacement with fast AF and fast EVF refresh.  The mirror assembly is a waste of space and weight, and impedes the introduction of 36 x 36 sensors to replace "full-frame."  Good riddance.
+1

Mirrorless is the way of the future. Right now, the two stumbling blocks are AF and the EVF. A couple of years ago they were huge hurdles but as time marches on the performance gets better and better. People used to say that digital sensors would never be as good as film, but now look at what we can do in digital that was impossible or impractical with film.... people used to say that live-view autofocus was to slow and inaccurate, but look at what is happening with dual pixel technology.... people used to say that EVF would never replace optical viewfinders, but they are now approaching or exceeding the limits of eyesight resolution and the image on them can be adjusted to reflect what the sensor sees, not what the eye sees....

Mirrorless will be the death of AFMA :)
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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2013, 12:36:17 PM »
Let's be honest.  All three people that wanted an EF-mount mirrorless camera already bought one.
And which camera would that be?  The M is a "M Mount".  I am not aware of a "EF mount" mirrorless camera.
 
I'd have bought the M, but it is missing tethering ability.  10's of thousands were sold though.

Don Haines

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2013, 12:46:45 PM »

The mirror assembly is a waste of space and weight, and impedes the introduction of 36 x 36 sensors to replace "full-frame."  Good riddance.
You can't get 36x36mm in the image circle without cutting off the corners. you have a 43mm image circle, the largest square format that would fit into that circle is 30x30mm.... but then you could go a larger format, live with faded corners on the full image, and crop to the format you desire. For example, if you wanted a 16x9 format you would crop to 37.5x21 pixels....

EDIT: Oops, meant to say 37.5x21 millimeters, not pixels....
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 03:20:41 PM by Don Haines »
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Orangutan

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2013, 01:02:36 PM »

You can't get 36x36mm in the image circle without cutting off the corners... but then you could go a larger format, live with faded corners on the full image, and crop to the format you desire

Precisely.  I've posted this before: for pro and prosumer cameras I'd like to make the crop in post, or have manual crop selection on the body.  It would be a choice, like aperture.

Etienne

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2013, 02:34:04 PM »

You can't get 36x36mm in the image circle without cutting off the corners... but then you could go a larger format, live with faded corners on the full image, and crop to the format you desire

Precisely.  I've posted this before: for pro and prosumer cameras I'd like to make the crop in post, or have manual crop selection on the body.  It would be a choice, like aperture.

36x36 would probably increase the camera cost quite a bit over 36x24. Would it be worth it?

The novelty of it would probably mean the cost would go up by $1000 or more. Then people would say it's a waste because you still cant get a 36x36 image, and "why don't they make lenses to cover the sensor?" etc. So, I doubt you'll see 36x36 unless there's accompanying lenses. And even then, "why not go medium format?" would be the next question.

Don Haines

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2013, 03:27:01 PM »

You can't get 36x36mm in the image circle without cutting off the corners... but then you could go a larger format, live with faded corners on the full image, and crop to the format you desire

Precisely.  I've posted this before: for pro and prosumer cameras I'd like to make the crop in post, or have manual crop selection on the body.  It would be a choice, like aperture.

36x36 would probably increase the camera cost quite a bit over 36x24. Would it be worth it?

The novelty of it would probably mean the cost would go up by $1000 or more. Then people would say it's a waste because you still cant get a 36x36 image, and "why don't they make lenses to cover the sensor?" etc. So, I doubt you'll see 36x36 unless there's accompanying lenses. And even then, "why not go medium format?" would be the next question.
You would need 43x43 to cover the whole image circle.... and I can't imagine that ever happening.
I could see 38x24.... normal 36x24 cropped for photos and 38x21 cropped for video....
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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2013, 03:27:01 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2013, 03:47:00 PM »
You would need 43x43 to cover the whole image circle.... and I can't imagine that ever happening.

Naah, a 43mm diameter circular sensor would be perfect...no wasted image circle or sensor area.  What about production cost?  No waste there, either...after all, they can just ball up the excess silicon wafer and roll it out for another round of cutting, just like cookie dough.  Mmmmm...wafers and cookies, I need a snack!
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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2013, 04:26:24 PM »

I want one but don't yet have one.  My first (consumer) digital camera had an EVF, which I really liked.  I'm very much looking forward to the day that we can leave the SLR mirror on the dustbin of obsolete technology.  Many will argue that a mirror allows them to see the frame as it really is, but I can do that with my naked eye.  I want to see the frame as the sensor sees it, so I have a better idea of what the resulting image will actually look like.

I may well get an M2, but what I really want is an SLR-replacement with fast AF and fast EVF refresh.  The mirror assembly is a waste of space and weight, and impedes the introduction of 36 x 36 sensors to replace "full-frame."  Good riddance.

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Orangutan

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2013, 05:40:33 PM »
Naah, a 43mm diameter circular sensor would be perfect...no wasted image circle or sensor area.  What about production cost?  No waste there, either...after all, they can just ball up the excess silicon wafer and roll it out for another round of cutting, just like cookie dough.  Mmmmm...wafers and cookies, I need a snack!

I see you needed to get in your quota of snark today.

Waste?  Sure, allowing some of the silicon to go unused is certainly waste, there's no doubt about that.  But then, for all of us who don't make a living out of it, it's all waste.  Every camera that sits unused is wasted.  Waste is particularly common for all those who get new e-toys (e.g. smart phones) frequently, either due to upgrade envy or through negligent loss/damage.  Losing some silicon to a (relative) minority of pros and serious amateurs certainly requires a cost-benefit calculation.  However, we're looking at 3-5 years (pulling numbers out of the aether) before pro-grade mirrorless becomes dominant; in that time, the costs associated with the wasted silicon almost certainly will have diminished.

And waste is already occurring in DSLR's: consider those who crop almost every shot (e.g. birders);  they are also wasting silicon because a large fraction of their pixels rarely contribute to the final image.

So yes, there will be waste; the only question is whether it's worth the benefit of a larger sensor area, without having to replace all of your glass.

Don Haines

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2013, 05:43:44 PM »
You would need 43x43 to cover the whole image circle.... and I can't imagine that ever happening.

Naah, a 43mm diameter circular sensor would be perfect...no wasted image circle or sensor area.  What about production cost?  No waste there, either...after all, they can just ball up the excess silicon wafer and roll it out for another round of cutting, just like cookie dough.  Mmmmm...wafers and cookies, I need a snack!
or a beer... one of the most important things that I have learned from this forum is the existence of chocolate stout..... helps me cope with not having 128 stops of dynamic range.....
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Don Haines

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2013, 05:55:11 PM »
However, we're looking at 3-5 years (pulling numbers out of the aether) before pro-grade mirrorless becomes dominant;
I think it will take a bit longer than that to become dominant.... a lot of pros don't upgrade every new camera... There was something recently about the 100 best pictures of the year and what camera took them and there were a lot more taken with the 5D2 than the 5D3... it will take several years to eclipse all the existing cameras that are in use.

That said, I would not be surprised if a pro-grade mirrorless came out in the next year or so... all the pieces of the puzzle are there.... wouldn't it be a shock to people if the "revolutionary" aspect of the 7D2 was mirrorless! I think it's unlikely for that camera, but it will happen sometime....
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neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2013, 05:59:32 PM »
or a beer... one of the most important things that I have learned from this forum is the existence of chocolate stout..... helps me cope with not having 128 stops of dynamic range.....

Sounds good, might help me cope with those on this forum who are sadly devoid of anything remotely resembling a sense of humor...   ::)
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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2013, 05:59:32 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2013, 06:01:21 PM »
compatible only with RAW images shot with EOS-1D X, EOS-1D C, EOS-1D Mark IV, EOS 5D Mark III, EOS 5D Mark II, EOS 6D, EOS 7D, EOS 70D, EOS 60D, EOS 50D, EOS REBEL T5i/700D, EOS REBEL SL1/100D, EOS REBEL T4i/650D, EOS REBEL T3i/600D, EOS REBEL T2i/550D, EOS REBEL T1i/500D, EOS REBEL T3/1100D, EOS M2 and EOS M.

This would seem to imply that there will be only be 1 EOS-M camera introduced soon, not two.... Perhaps the source meant a higher end EOS-M camera (the EOS M2) and the continuation of a lower grade EOS-M camera, the current EOS M.
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Orangutan

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2013, 06:30:51 PM »
Sounds good, might help me cope with those on this forum who are sadly devoid of anything remotely resembling a sense of humor...   ::)

Protip:  I can tell you that "sense of humor" does not translate so well on the Interwebs.  That's why comedy writers on the web are so well-paid (  ;D ).  I have been on both ends of this problem.

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Re: EOS M2 Shows up in DPP Literature
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2013, 06:30:51 PM »