October 24, 2014, 07:08:51 PM

Author Topic: The rumored tele lens for the M  (Read 8051 times)

wickidwombat

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4522
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 04:14:33 AM »
i'm more interested in either
a 15-85 EF-M
a 18-135 EF-M
or an
18-200 EF-M

all in STM of course

i'd like a reasonable range zoom on this little guy
APS-H Fanboy

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 04:14:33 AM »

bholliman

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 763
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2013, 01:34:42 PM »
i'm more interested in either
a 15-85 EF-M
a 18-135 EF-M
or an
18-200 EF-M
all in STM of course
i'd like a reasonable range zoom on this little guy

If Canon could duplicate the IQ of the EF-S 15-85 on a M format lens, I'd be the first in line to buy one.  Hopefully, they could keep it relatively small as well.

I'm not a big fan of super zooms (18-135 or 18-200) as IQ gets compromised too much in order to deliver the huge zoom range.  Convenient, yes, but I'll take IQ over convenience 95% of the time.

18mm (29mm FF equivilent) on an APS-C lens just isn't wide enough for my taste, so I'd like to see a normal zoom that goes down to 15mm.
Bodies:  6D, EOS-M (22/2 and 18-55)
Lenses: Rokinon 14mm 2.8, 35mm 2.0 IS, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L IS Macro, 135mm 2.0L, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, Extenders: EF 1.4xIII, EF 2xIII ; Flash: ST-E3-RT, 600EX-RT (x3)

9VIII

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 654
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2013, 02:54:03 PM »
i'm more interested in either
a 15-85 EF-M
a 18-135 EF-M
or an
18-200 EF-M
all in STM of course
i'd like a reasonable range zoom on this little guy

If Canon could duplicate the IQ of the EF-S 15-85 on a M format lens, I'd be the first in line to buy one.  Hopefully, they could keep it relatively small as well.

I'm not a big fan of super zooms (18-135 or 18-200) as IQ gets compromised too much in order to deliver the huge zoom range.  Convenient, yes, but I'll take IQ over convenience 95% of the time.

18mm (29mm FF equivilent) on an APS-C lens just isn't wide enough for my taste, so I'd like to see a normal zoom that goes down to 15mm.

Remember that retrofocusing is part of the problem with super zoom lenses as well. An 18-135 zoom lens in EF-M is going to be an entirely telephoto design, it should be smaller, lighter, and probably sharper than the equivalent lens in EF or EF-S.
On the point of flange distance limitations, that was really only a problem on SLR bodies because of the mirror getting in the way, on EF-M they could protrude the lens as far back into the body as they want. Really there's no reason that any lens on EF-M will ever need to be retrofocusing, and they should be able to make any (short) focal length in pancake form.
-100% RAW-

dufflover

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 137
  • OH YEAH!
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2013, 10:04:32 PM »
I wouldn't mind a smaller EOS-M telephoto. The new 55-250 STM does look to be of decent quality and has STM so it might be "good" enough via adapter and relatively still a lot smaller than the usual big teles (70-200 up).

A green ring lens would be nice but I agree probably just not worth it costwise.
A collapsible 55-250 or 70-300 would be great ...

I still regard the 100-400 as a big example of a collapsible lens, even though I know it really isn't as it's just the zoom functionality. Still, more significant over the EF-M 11-22.
Hurry up Canon and do something with your sensors! :P

lw

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2013, 07:13:41 AM »
I succumbed and bought the EF-S 55-250mm STM version as Amazon UK recently dropped the price significantly.
Personally, I think it is just about the limit of handle-ability on the EOS.


Wouldn't want to use something much heavier or bigger hand-held.
But with the tripod collar on the EF adaptor it balances really well, and is light enough to stand alone even on my Video monopod


IQ seems good. Though I can't say it is a huge improvement on my original non-STM one I had but sold on to make way for this.  But operationally it is significantly quieter (AF and IS wise) which is what I was keen on as I took several videos with my non-STM version and you could hear it furiously working away.

Will the EF-M version be much smaller? Well it can lose the weight and size of the adaptor of course, and they can perhaps shave a little of the body.  But given my comment above about balance I am not sure that is necessarily a good thing if you lose the forward position of the tripod collar. It wouldn't balance on my monopod any more. (not that this will be an issue for a lot of folk)

I am working on a review for my site.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 07:20:53 AM by lw »

jebrady03

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2013, 08:52:39 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'd give up some reach in a native M mount telephoto zoom to get a smaller lens.  A 50-150 (3x zoom) or 75-150 (2x zoom) would be great and further reach than a 70-200 on FF (200 vs 240).  In fact, I'd give up a little max aperture too.  Rather than a 3.5 maximum aperture, I'd take 4.5 - especially if it didn't VERY QUICKLY narrow after zooming from the wide end like most zooms do).

I don't know the physics behind lens design but my guess would be that a smaller zoom range and smaller maximum aperture would decrease the size and weight thereby making this an ideal telezoom for MOST people (people in this forum are NOT in that group more often than not) when using the M.

dufflover

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 137
  • OH YEAH!
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2013, 04:55:03 PM »
Thanks for the demo pics!
I dunno about my idea anymore. I know it will be much smaller than a 70-200 (obviously) but that still looks pretty big. I don't mind the size difference between the body and lens itself, I expect that with a tele, but especially with the adapter it's still overall bit chunkier to carry around than I thought.

Luckily (at least in Aus) the price is still kinda high for this one, for a future kit lens you'd think, so I'll hold off. Maybe I'll draw the deadline as being the release of M2. If they were going announce a tele, it would be then surely!
Hurry up Canon and do something with your sensors! :P

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2013, 04:55:03 PM »

lw

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2013, 03:53:55 AM »
What I am beginning to suspect is that the IS is less effective when used on the M because your grip is so less stable holding the whole thing out at arms length compared to a DSLR.

Images at 250mm at something like 1/40th are fine on the 600D but are less sharp on the M. As they both have effectively the same 18mp sensor,  I can only put it down to the additional shake and the IS unable to work miracles.

I would be worried an EF-M version will have the same problem.

jebrady03

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2013, 08:25:12 AM »
I would be worried an EF-M version will have the same problem.

Yet another reason to go with a shorter telephoto zoom (50-150 or 75-150).  Shorter focal length means you're not pushing the limits of normal technique and the equipment should be smaller and balance easier.

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2013, 08:55:50 PM »
I'd rather canon concentrated on brilliant pancake primes.

The beauty of M is the 22mm pancake.

If you want anything bigger then BANG there went the M's whole reason for being.

The EF-m adaptor is the way to go.  Let canon concentrate on budget EF pancakes that benefit all users.  M has fell flat on its face a little.  A shame as I love mine.

Maybe canon should make an EF-s only >EF-m.  Such an adaptor could be plastic (as the max weight of any EF-s lens is going to be much less potentially than EF lenses, and yes I know the lens collar rule) and much cheaper.

The folk who want bigger lenses can have them.   

Zv

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1266
    • View Profile
    • Zeeography (flickr)
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2013, 09:22:33 PM »
What I am beginning to suspect is that the IS is less effective when used on the M because your grip is so less stable holding the whole thing out at arms length compared to a DSLR.

Images at 250mm at something like 1/40th are fine on the 600D but are less sharp on the M. As they both have effectively the same 18mp sensor,  I can only put it down to the additional shake and the IS unable to work miracles.

I would be worried an EF-M version will have the same problem.

I hold mine close to the chest with elbows tucked in, similar to holding a DSLR but without bringing it up to the eye. It also helps to lean on something like a tree or lamppost. Although I do agree that I find myself shaking a lot more than if I was holding something solid like a 7D!

I haven't tried an IS lens on the M yet but I'd certainly want it for anything over 50mm.

I'd love to see an EOS M tele prime with IS. Something like an 85 f/2 IS could be relatively small and useful (giving a nice 135 look).
5D II | 17-40L | 24-105L | 70-200 f4L IS | 135L | SY 14 2.8 | Sigma 50 1.4

EOS M | 11-22 IS STM | 22 STM | FD 50 1.4

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2013, 09:35:19 PM »
The 18-55 IS works well, especially for video.  And I am the one person I never thought would try that or endorse it.  But hey.

dufflover

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 137
  • OH YEAH!
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2013, 07:05:41 AM »
If you want anything bigger then BANG there went the M's whole reason for being.
Quote
The EF-m adaptor is the way to go.  Let canon concentrate on budget EF pancakes that benefit all users...
uh those are pretty contradictory statements? Well kind of anyway. Adapter more than already kills the portability with nothing attached over a Rebel.
Hurry up Canon and do something with your sensors! :P

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2013, 07:05:41 AM »

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2013, 09:13:55 AM »

uh those are pretty contradictory statements? Well kind of anyway. Adapter more than already kills the portability with nothing attached over a Rebel.


Uh, yeah I know.  Such is the paradox of putting bigger lenses on any mirrorless camera.

I think anything other than the pancake 22mm destroys the form advantage of the M.

However, I personally don't want to buy any new lenses that I can't use on my other bodies.  EF-m lenses are exclusive to the M.  Yeah they might be 30% smaller but it ain't small enough.

And more exclusive lenses are going to backfire, the Ms great selling point to canon eos users is the ability to use your own lenses.  A 55-250 is never going to be compact, so lets not kid on otherwise.

AvTvM

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1023
    • View Profile
Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2013, 10:27:11 AM »
I think anything other than the pancake 22mm destroys the form advantage of the M.

However, I personally don't want to buy any new lenses that I can't use on my other bodies.  EF-m lenses are exclusive to the M.  Yeah they might be 30% smaller but it ain't small enough.

And more exclusive lenses are going to backfire, the Ms great selling point to canon eos users is the ability to use your own lenses.  A 55-250 is never going to be compact, so lets not kid on otherwise.

Let's face it: Canon has fully botched the EOS-M in every possible way. Even if there were more EF-M lenses  NOBODY wants to buy yet another set of APS-C lenses for use on only one camera body, after having  purchased EF-S lenses and (possibly) EF lenses already.

Canon should have:
  • designed the EF-M as FF-sensored camera-system with a new mount with well thought out diameter and flange distance.
  • offer a starting line-up of 2 models: EOS-M-"Pure"= Basic model, as small as possible, LCD only, as cheap as possible
  • and EOS-M-"Advanced", slightly larger, possibly somewhat more controls, full weathersealing, Mg-alloy body and hi-end "retina" EFV
  • plus starting lineup of 3 native, FF pancake primes, sized like the EF 40/2.8 ... e.g. a 18mm/4.0 landscape,  40/2.8 normal view pancake and ultracompact 85/2.8 portrait lens. All with autuofocus capability only. No manula focus ring. To make 'em really small, fully weathersealed, optically as good as the EF 40/2.8 and as cheap as possible.
  • plus one kit-zoom ... similar to Sony ... 28-75/3.5-5.6 ... but foldable design to make it really compact, when not in use .. "parking position".
  • EF-M adapter included in package
  • plus roadmap for new EF-M lenses to come ... see Sony! WA lenses first, because those will be smaller and lighter with reduced flange distance compared to EF lenses. No need to rush native tele lenses, since they will not be smaller. Size of front element is determined by focal length and largest f-stop.
 

Now THAT would have been a brilliant for a full-fledged Canon EOS-M system, which would gradually but quickly  replace most DSLRs, except possibly a 1D type "fast action +long lenses" DSLR and maybe one Retro-DSLR for all those Retro-buyers who want a "chunky, beefy DSLR with proper mirror slap, OVF and lots of dials and buttons all over" [a.k.a. "Nikon Df"].

But no, ultra-conservative Canon geriatric management ward would never do such an innovative thing.  So they goofed and are being punished by us, the customers, who will only buy their sorry EOS-M if it comes almost for free. Right on them! :-)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 10:33:28 AM by AvTvM »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The rumored tele lens for the M
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2013, 10:27:11 AM »