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Author Topic: Best 35mm wide open????  (Read 8843 times)

MonteGraham

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Best 35mm wide open????
« on: September 22, 2013, 11:11:52 AM »
Im in the market for a 35mm for my 5DMK3.. Out of the option which is best wide open for nice bokeh??

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Best 35mm wide open????
« on: September 22, 2013, 11:11:52 AM »

Eldar

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2013, 11:29:23 AM »
The only non-L lens I have is the Sigma 35/1.4, which I bought just to check if it actually delivers what the reviews said. And it does. The only other AF alternative is the Canon 35 f1.4L, which has received a fair share of criticism for being outdated. But if you drop chart reading and just look at the images that lens produces, you´ll see some stunning stuff. The only alternative beyond these two is the manual focus Zeiss. I have not used this lens myself, but it is difficult to imagine a Zeiss lens with poor performance wide open.

I have attached a picture of the local lion, shot with the Sigma wide open.
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Pi

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2013, 11:40:03 AM »
Im in the market for a 35mm for my 5DMK3.. Out of the option which is best wide open for nice bokeh??

The critical part of the bokeh is when the blur is just a few pixels wide. Once the radius is large enough, you are not going to see much difference. Unfortunately, those are the typical examples of "good bokeh" often presented.

I would study the Flickr groups. IMO, Sigma pushed the design too much, and to gain sharpness, they compromised the bokeh. The Canon has its problems with the bokeh as well. To make things worse, the typical double lines might be maximized for radially oriented lines, and minimized for perpendicular ones, for example. So one comparison can be misleading.


Eldar

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2013, 11:48:28 AM »
Im in the market for a 35mm for my 5DMK3.. Out of the option which is best wide open for nice bokeh??

The critical part of the bokeh is when the blur is just a few pixels wide. Once the radius is large enough, you are not going to see much difference. Unfortunately, those are the typical examples of "good bokeh" often presented.

I would study the Flickr groups. IMO, Sigma pushed the design too much, and to gain sharpness, they compromised the bokeh. The Canon has its problems with the bokeh as well. To make things worse, the typical double lines might be maximized for radially oriented lines, and minimized for perpendicular ones, for example. So one comparison can be misleading.

I'm no expert on optical design, I only judge from what I see. If you could explain how sharpness ruins bokeh, it would be most appreciated. I don't see the connection.
2x5DIII, 1DX, 8-15/4L, 24-70/2.8L II, 70-200/2.8L II, 70-300/4-5.6L, 200-400/4L 1.4x, Zeiss 15/2.8, 17/4L TS-E, Zeiss 21/2.8, 24/3.5L TS-E II, Sigma 35/1.4 Art, Sigma 50/1.4 Art, Zeiss Otus 55/1.4, 85/1.2L II, Zeiss 135/2, 600/4L II

Pi

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2013, 12:27:22 PM »
I'm no expert on optical design, I only judge from what I see. If you could explain how sharpness ruins bokeh, it would be most appreciated. I don't see the connection.


It depend on how the spherical aberrations are corrected or not. See p.36 here: http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b8b6f/embedtitelintern/cln_35_bokeh_en/$file/cln35_bokeh_en.pdf.

Also, see the conclusions on p.40, in italics, the pictures on pp. 41-42, and the comments there.

Eldar

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2013, 12:42:08 PM »
I'm no expert on optical design, I only judge from what I see. If you could explain how sharpness ruins bokeh, it would be most appreciated. I don't see the connection.


It depend on how the spherical aberrations are corrected or not. See p.36 here: http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b8b6f/embedtitelintern/cln_35_bokeh_en/$file/cln35_bokeh_en.pdf.

Also, see the conclusions on p.40, in italics, the pictures on pp. 41-42, and the comments there.


Thanks, that should keep me occupied for awhile :)
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distant.star

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2013, 01:03:33 PM »
.
As others have said, there are really only two AF choices (and if you're using a 5D3, why would you consider a non-AF lens?).

For images shown on ordinary computer screens, you will see no difference between the Canon f/1.4 L and the Sigma f/1.4 A. The data worshipers will scream the Sigma is sharper while the professional eyeballers will warn Canon has better bokeh. If your practice involves prints at 16 X 20 or larger, you may want to study such arguments as you might see a slight difference.

Since I would rarely, if ever, print large, I went with the Sigma because it kept $400 more dollars in my wallet at the end of the day. And I've been entirely satisfied.
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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2013, 01:03:33 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2013, 01:12:57 PM »
If you buy the new Sigma, get the dock.  Sigma lenses can be adjusted at multiple distances to have accurate autofocus on a given Canon body.  Unfortunately, its only one body, but its still a good thing.
 
Optically, the Sigma looks very good, and the bokeh is excellent.  Here is a image of the bokeh for the Nikon version on a Nikon FF body. 
It will not be different on a Canon FF body.
 

 
 
Here is the Canon L for comparison  Its not nearly as nice to to bokeh fringing.
 
 

Pi

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2013, 01:27:56 PM »
Optically, the Sigma looks very good, and the bokeh is excellent.

There is a reason I warned against making generalizations from one comparison only. Here is an example of less than excellent bokeh:



You must have used a lens extensively to know its weak and strong sides. The bokeh performance can really surprise you in many situations.

sagittariansrock

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2013, 01:36:05 PM »
The only non-L lens I have is the Sigma 35/1.4, which I bought just to check if it actually delivers what the reviews said. And it does. The only other AF alternative is the Canon 35 f1.4L, which has received a fair share of criticism for being outdated. But if you drop chart reading and just look at the images that lens produces, you´ll see some stunning stuff. The only alternative beyond these two is the manual focus Zeiss. I have not used this lens myself, but it is difficult to imagine a Zeiss lens with poor performance wide open.

I have attached a picture of the local lion, shot with the Sigma wide open.

Nice shot, and love the "local lion" bit :)
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fegari

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2013, 03:35:46 PM »
Take a very close look at the Sigma 1.4. It packs the more bang for the buck than any other 35mm imho.

Not only it is probably the cheapest high performing 35mm prime, it is right at the top, fighting for number 1 or 2 spot in all the reviews I could manage to read.

At the end I got one and I can´t be happier that I did not get neither the zeiss nor the canon´s equivalents =)




Eldar

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2013, 03:43:26 PM »
Optically, the Sigma looks very good, and the bokeh is excellent.

There is a reason I warned against making generalizations from one comparison only. Here is an example of less than excellent bokeh:



You must have used a lens extensively to know its weak and strong sides. The bokeh performance can really surprise you in many situations.

Which lens is this? I have used the Sigma extensivly for many months under very varied conditions and I have not seen anything like this. I would rather say that it produces very good bokeh compared to the other lenses I have. And most people would rate them as good.
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MonteGraham

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2013, 03:45:05 PM »
Take a very close look at the Sigma 1.4. It packs the more bang for the buck than any other 35mm imho.

Not only it is probably the cheapest high performing 35mm prime, it is right at the top, fighting for number 1 or 2 spot in all the reviews I could manage to read.

At the end I got one and I can´t be happier that I did not get neither the zeiss nor the canon´s equivalents =)

Thats what im reading too. But what has me leaning towards the Canon is of course the "Canon" name.. Sometimes 3rd party lens scare me for the future. You know Canon is stingy with their technology. so im not sure if a 3rd party lens will become obsolete 2 camera bodies from now. The only way i would jump in on a 3rd party is if it was that much better!! but from what im reading it neck and neck and to me the future wins out all the time. im just looking with real world advise from someone who actually shot both lens and can give me a honest critique on both.

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2013, 03:45:05 PM »

ugly_bokeh

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2013, 05:34:06 PM »
Thats what im reading too. But what has me leaning towards the Canon is of course the "Canon" name.. Sometimes 3rd party lens scare me for the future. You know Canon is stingy with their technology. so im not sure if a 3rd party lens will become obsolete 2 camera bodies from now. The only way i would jump in on a 3rd party is if it was that much better!! but from what im reading it neck and neck and to me the future wins out all the time. im just looking with real world advise from someone who actually shot both lens and can give me a honest critique on both.


If you are worried about obsolescence from the standpoint of body compatibility, I think the firmware for that Sigma lens can be updated, which hopefully prevents such an issue.
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/06/sigma-optimization-pro-and-usb-dock

In addition to the article above, Roger Cicala at Lensrentals has written (at least) a couple other relevant pieces regarding 35mm lenses specifically.
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/12/another-35mm-lens-for-canon
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2011/03/fun-with-thumbtacks-for-advanced-photogeeks

When I was shopping for a 35mm lens (shortly before the article at that third link was published), I went with the f/2 Zeiss and have no regrets.  Since that time, though, the f/1.4 Zeiss was released and so was the f/1.4 Sigma.  Buying right now, the decision would definitely be more difficult....

Pi

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2013, 07:10:59 PM »
Which lens is this? I have used the Sigma extensivly for many months under very varied conditions and I have not seen anything like this. I would rather say that it produces very good bokeh compared to the other lenses I have. And most people would rate them as good.


This is the Sigma, source: http://www.camerastuffreview.com/sigma-lens-review/sigma-35-mm-1-4-review

I have posted a few other poor bokeh shots before, both from the Sigma and from the Canon. My point was that those nice blown highlights you see very often are misleading.

Here is another example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ebaebajpn/8705959796/#

And this is the Canon:http://www.flickr.com/photos/ebaebajpn/8705959796/# The highlights are OK but look at the tree on the left. Now, a typical comparison would pixelpeep the color fringing of the highlights in the forest on the back but will miss the tree.

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Re: Best 35mm wide open????
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2013, 07:10:59 PM »