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Author Topic: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight  (Read 4553 times)

langdonb

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6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« on: September 18, 2013, 08:55:53 AM »
I am ready to buy a second body, either 6D or 5DIII. It is clear that the AF is superior in the 5D, but would the 6D suffice for shooting birds in flight?

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6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« on: September 18, 2013, 08:55:53 AM »

dhachey77

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2013, 10:19:03 AM »
In my opinion no.  The AF isn't accurate and fast enough, and the shutter speed is too slow for BIF.  Get the 5D3, or better yet a 1DX.  I have a 6D and 5D3, and I like both, but for different purposes. 

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 10:23:47 AM »
In my opinion no.  The AF isn't accurate and fast enough, and the shutter speed is too slow for BIF.

I agree. Get the 5DIII

neuroanatomist

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 11:02:01 AM »
The AF isn't accurate and fast enough, and the shutter speed is too slow for BIF.

Agreed on the AF of the 6D not being adequate for BIF.  I'm not sure a 1/8000 s shutter speed is needed for BIF - even the one stop slower 1/4000 max speed of the 6D is sufficient (except for things like freezing a hummingbird's wings, where 1/8000 s isn't sufficient either, and you need flashes, ideally several set to low power).

But perhaps you mean frame rate, and the 33% faster fps of the 5DIII definitely gives a better chance of catching optimal wing position.
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ajfotofilmagem

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 12:01:38 PM »
It seems to me that even the Canon 70D will perform better for birds in flight.

9VIII

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 12:19:58 PM »
What glass are you using?

If you don't have a big white you may as well use a 7D (or as mentioned, 70D), and even with a big white the 7D still might be better. With 640mm framing (400mm on crop) I find that the bird has to be flying low and almost directly overhead to get decent frame coverage, so unless you have a big white you probably won't be getting any benefits from full frame.
AF on my T3 seems decent when I can actually keep the subject on frame, so I would be more worried about FPS than AF. That said, pretty much all high FPS cameras have top notch autofocus too, so they seem to go hand in hand.
I can't tell the difference between 1/1000 and 1/2000 shutter speed.
I think this may be a good opportunity for a rental. Go see how things frame up on the 5DIII vs. a crop camera, if you like your shots better out of the 5DIII then that's probably the one to get.
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langdonb

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 12:29:36 PM »
Thanks for all the suggestions. I am currently using a 60D with a 70/300L lens and have both 1.4 and 2x TC from Kenko. I was thinking of the 70 D as a possibility, but haven't looked into closely yet. I do want a FF body for other reasons, but the non crop image will definitely be a factor to consider.

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 12:29:36 PM »

rahkshi007

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2013, 12:40:44 PM »
The answer obviously is 5dm3.. 6d is not a sport camera
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2013, 08:12:12 PM »
While the 5D MK III is obviously superior for tracking birds in flight, I recently found a batch of old National Geographic magazines from 1916 in with some old things I had bought at a estate sale.
There were plenty of sporting events, wild life, and even birds in flight.
 
So, its a matter of skill and perseverance.  A 6D is incredibly more capable than what they had to work with in 1915 or earlier when those photos were taken.  Its really just a matter of skill and practice.  You can let the camera do it all, or you can learn to get by with a bit less automation.  You can get every bit as good of photos, its just more work and requires more skill and understanding of the equipment.
 
I'm not down on anyone using the best AF available, I have and love my 5D MK III, but I feel that I could get the shot with less capable cameras as well, its just more difficult.

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2013, 01:42:22 AM »
While the 5D MK III is obviously superior for tracking birds in flight, I recently found a batch of old National Geographic magazines from 1916 in with some old things I had bought at a estate sale.
There were plenty of sporting events, wild life, and even birds in flight. ...

I agree with that. I used to (try to) photograph fast moving sports and birds back in the old film and manual focus days. The only way to make it work was practice, practice, practice. There are lots of great images from those days to prove that it was not impossible.
But the problem with the AF bodies is that you either use the AF they have or you go manual. And in manual they are all more or less same, same. One advantage of going manual is that you get rid of focus hunting. To me that is a real nuisance. To lock moving subjects in the viewer and to be able to frame it properly is not easy with a long tele, and it gets worse when focus is jumping all over the place. So in some cases, with a bit of practice, you can actually make life easier by going manual.
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langdonb

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2013, 07:10:14 PM »
Well I decided to start off by buying a Refurb 6D of Canon Direct for 1499.00. I figured if it did not work for the majority of my shooting I could probably sell it what I paid for where I live (Panama) as camera gear here is 30-40% higher. I would then buy a 5DIII. In reality, I have been getting some very good shoots of hummingbirds on my back patio with a 60D/70-300L combo. I hope to be thrilled with the 6D for most shots.

Thanks for all your comments.

captainkanji

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2013, 07:50:58 PM »
Take it from a 6D owner. The 6D is not going to be a good BIF/action camera. The shots that are in focus will be great, but it is very difficult to do with the AF. The 6D is a brilliant low light/portrait camera that works great at events and car shows.
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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2013, 09:02:53 PM »
my father shot BIF with an AV-1. :)

so yes absolutely you can shoot BIF with a 6D.
will you have a greater keeper rate with a 5D MK3? ... you should.

so if you are willing to spend the money go for the 5D MK3.


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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2013, 09:02:53 PM »

chauncey

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2013, 08:22:42 AM »
Let me preface my remarks by saying that I'm an aged lazy photographer using a dated DsMkIII and a 300mm 2.8 lens specializing in BIF series using this rig when in the field...



Required SS is determined by your goals...for an artistic image go for the slower SS to get the motion blur in the wings, like 2000 on a hummer or 800 on a egret. 
You would need to double that for "freezing" the BIF.
Now we could take this conversation further by talking about crop sensors/pixels on target and whatnot but suffice to say that any of the newer bodies are capable of capturing BIF images, especially with high quality glass.
It should go without saying that it's easier to capture these images with superior AF abilities, along with a practiced, skilled operator.

dhachey77

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2013, 11:03:32 PM »
The AF isn't accurate and fast enough, and the shutter speed is too slow for BIF.


But perhaps you mean frame rate, and the 33% faster fps of the 5DIII definitely gives a better chance of catching optimal wing position.

Yes, sorry, I meant frame rate.

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Re: 6D or 5DIII for birds in flight
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2013, 11:03:32 PM »