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Author Topic: Help figuring out filters  (Read 1776 times)

rmfagan

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Help figuring out filters
« on: September 24, 2013, 01:43:07 PM »
I've just picked up a 16-35 II as part of my move to FF, shooting on a 5D3 and I want to figure out my best options regarding a circular polarizer and 10-stop ND. I've heard good things about the Lee system if its in stock but I'm still confused. Do I get a round polarizer to mount behind the lee system? If I go round for both polarizer and ND10, which goes in front? Which do I get to avoid vignetting?

Slim filters don't seem to have front threads so I'm stumped. Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

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Help figuring out filters
« on: September 24, 2013, 01:43:07 PM »

J.R.

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2013, 02:21:06 PM »
Get a LEE system if you can - it's the best system there is

The CPL has to be mounted out front and cannot be used behind the filter holder. You will need to get a square CPL or a 105mm adapter and a "round" circular 105 mm filter.

IMHO, stacking of round and "non-slim" filters will lead to some bad vignetting with the 16-35.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 03:52:27 PM »
If you go with circular filters, you can stack ~9mm of filters on a 16-35 II with no mechanical vignetting (you'll get a bit less than a stop more optical vignetting in the corners).  So, you could stack a B+W 10-stop ND with a B+W XS-Pro CPL, for example.  But the Lee system allows you to adjust your polarization before slipping in the ND filter.

A thought - get a non-Slim 82mm CPL, one with front threads (e.g. the B+W XS-Pro).  Then you can screw the Lee 82mm WA adapter onto that for the Foundation Kit, since the Big Stopper can be at any orientation.  Or you could just hold the Big Stopper in front of the lens.
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J.R.

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2013, 09:46:45 PM »
If you go with circular filters, you can stack ~9mm of filters on a 16-35 II with no mechanical vignetting (you'll get a bit less than a stop more optical vignetting in the corners).  So, you could stack a B+W 10-stop ND with a B+W XS-Pro CPL, for example.  But the Lee system allows you to adjust your polarization before slipping in the ND filter.


Hi Neuro,

Have you tried something like this combination. I've personally found that stacking a CPL and a ND8 makes composing a shot too difficult for me because of focusing issues and/or adjust the polarization to my liking is extremely difficult. How do you get around it when more than 10 stops of light are being cut in front of the lens? how do you manage with the dark viewfinder?

I've repeatedly got vignetting while stacking non-slim NDX and CPLs ... but I was using the standard Hoya filters, not B+W. Probably the quality of the filters let me down more than anything else  :)
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Zv

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 10:18:37 PM »
If you go with circular filters, you can stack ~9mm of filters on a 16-35 II with no mechanical vignetting (you'll get a bit less than a stop more optical vignetting in the corners).  So, you could stack a B+W 10-stop ND with a B+W XS-Pro CPL, for example.  But the Lee system allows you to adjust your polarization before slipping in the ND filter.


Hi Neuro,

Have you tried something like this combination. I've personally found that stacking a CPL and a ND8 makes composing a shot too difficult for me because of focusing issues and/or adjust the polarization to my liking is extremely difficult. How do you get around it when more than 10 stops of light are being cut in front of the lens? how do you manage with the dark viewfinder?

I've repeatedly got vignetting while stacking non-slim NDX and CPLs ... but I was using the standard Hoya filters, not B+W. Probably the quality of the filters let me down more than anything else  :)

You could pre focus without the filters then put the filters on and shoot or switch to liveview and bump up the ISO to the max to see what's going on and manually focus (I would go for the first option).

Just thought of a third option, if it's landscapes then just shoot at the hyperfocal distance.

I don't think AF would work that well with a 10 stop reduction in light in any case.

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neuroanatomist

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 08:24:09 AM »
If you go with circular filters, you can stack ~9mm of filters on a 16-35 II with no mechanical vignetting (you'll get a bit less than a stop more optical vignetting in the corners).  So, you could stack a B+W 10-stop ND with a B+W XS-Pro CPL, for example.  But the Lee system allows you to adjust your polarization before slipping in the ND filter.


Hi Neuro,

Have you tried something like this combination. I've personally found that stacking a CPL and a ND8 makes composing a shot too difficult for me because of focusing issues and/or adjust the polarization to my liking is extremely difficult. How do you get around it when more than 10 stops of light are being cut in front of the lens? how do you manage with the dark viewfinder?

I've repeatedly got vignetting while stacking non-slim NDX and CPLs ... but I was using the standard Hoya filters, not B+W. Probably the quality of the filters let me down more than anything else  :)

It's no problem with an ND8 and a CPL, but an ND8 is only 3 stops and the Live View exposure simulation is certainly fine for the 4.5-5 stops of that plus the CPL.  But, I suspect you meant a stronger ND like an ND400 darker.  In that case, with CPL and a very bright scene, Live View can still usually handle it if you bump the ISO to focus and adjust polarization.  But it's not optimal, and doesn't work if the scene isn't as bright. 

Really, the best approach is usually to focus, adjust polarization and meter before putting on the 10-stop ND.  Since you don't want the camera to try to focus and adjust exposure after mounting the ND, you need to be using back-button AF or switch the lens to MF after focusing (or just use a TS-E lens or Zeiss prime ;) ), and be in M mode.  With the TS-E 24mm, I often just hold the ND (easier with the Big Stopper, doable with the round 10-stop).  Since I have a Slim CPL (no front threads), that's my only option, but with front threads you could hold the edge of the CPL to prevent the filter form rotating, and screw the ND in a little bit.

Also, since this thread is about the 16-35L II, I should point that using a CPL with a UWA lens will result in uneven polarization, particularly noticeable in a blue sky. 
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paul13walnut5

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 09:31:17 AM »
I've a B+W 10 stop screw in.

Nice filter, needs a careful WB correction though, I usually do a manual WB.

It is a pain the ass though, especially in the magic hours, when you might need quick mounting / unmounting, in order to compose etc.  Screw in is slowwwww.  Square filters fast.  On that basis, go for the Lee.

I can't speak for the 16-35 on FF, so won't go near the vignetting question.

I would however urge caution at multiple mounting screw in filters generally, but especially when there is a polariser in the mix.  If you must, then very very lightly grease the threads with a cloth before screwing them in, as they are likely to bind otherwise, the rotation of the polariser making it exceptionally frustrating to take them apart.

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 09:31:17 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2013, 09:40:06 AM »
I would however urge caution at multiple mounting screw in filters generally, but especially when there is a polariser in the mix.

Have a set of filter wrenches.  I use these Polaroid wrenches from Adorama, as they're the only ones I've found that go to 82mm (most are up to 77mm). Unfortunately, they're no longer available.  I previously ordered several sets, and keep a set in each bag/backpack.

Edit:  looks like they're available from a 3rd party seller on Amazon.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 09:41:45 AM by neuroanatomist »
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paul13walnut5

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2013, 09:48:09 AM »
Clever John.

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Re: Help figuring out filters
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2013, 09:48:09 AM »