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Author Topic: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?  (Read 5595 times)

hambergler

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2013, 11:31:52 AM »
Canon is so far behind in technology that it just isn't funny anymore. I've said it before and I'll say it again ... the EOS 100D should have been a mirrorless camera (comparable to the Panasonic G3 and G5), the EOS 70D should have been a mirrorless camera (comparable to the Panasonic G6 and GH3, and the Olympus E-M5 and E-M1), and the EOS 6D Mark II must be a full-frame mirrorless camera. Add to this that Canon is trying to sell the current crop of DSLR's, especially the 70D, to amateur videographers, but has absolutely nothing comparable to Olympus' (and now Sony's) 5-axis IBIS.

As an aside, what current mirrorless systems lack in terms of native lenses, they make good in support for the plethora of old, yet excellent, manual focus lenses.

If the EOS 6D Mark II went mirrorless than that would be pointless without a mount change and new lens lineup.

Putting an EF mount on a mirrorless camera adds a ridiculous amount of bulk which defeats the whole point of a mirrorless setup but to call it a 6D Mark II would make no sense to change mounts going from the Mk I -> Mk II.

The sony E mount makes sense because it has a 18mm flange distance vs 44mm for the EF mount.


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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2013, 11:31:52 AM »

Bob Howland

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2013, 12:17:04 PM »

If the EOS 6D Mark II went mirrorless than that would be pointless without a mount change and new lens lineup.

Putting an EF mount on a mirrorless camera adds a ridiculous amount of bulk which defeats the whole point of a mirrorless setup but to call it a 6D Mark II would make no sense to change mounts going from the Mk I -> Mk II.

The sony E mount makes sense because it has a 18mm flange distance vs 44mm for the EF mount.

The new FF lensmount could simply comprise shortening the distance from sensor plane to lens flange and introducing an adapter to take up the space, so that old lenses could still be used. As for the need for a new lens lineup, I somewhat agree with you, but, since the old lenses would still be usable, the new lineup can be introduced over several years. Hopefully the new lenses would be smaller than the old.

As for a name, how about "M6D"?

pharp

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2013, 01:19:21 PM »

If the EOS 6D Mark II went mirrorless than that would be pointless without a mount change and new lens lineup.

Putting an EF mount on a mirrorless camera adds a ridiculous amount of bulk which defeats the whole point of a mirrorless setup but to call it a 6D Mark II would make no sense to change mounts going from the Mk I -> Mk II.

The sony E mount makes sense because it has a 18mm flange distance vs 44mm for the EF mount.

The new FF lensmount could simply comprise shortening the distance from sensor plane to lens flange and introducing an adapter to take up the space, so that old lenses could still be used. As for the need for a new lens lineup, I somewhat agree with you, but, since the old lenses would still be usable, the new lineup can be introduced over several years. Hopefully the new lenses would be smaller than the old.

As for a name, how about "M6D"?

I agree, but they could also (for some lenses anyway, especially the UWA) retain the EF mount and have the rear element protrude into the 'mirror'less box as was not uncommon before. 

EchoLocation

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2013, 08:54:47 PM »
Sony has been one of my favorite electronics companies since I was a kid in the 80's because of their spirit of innovation and their willingness to make new exciting products. Sony was as cool or even cooler in the 80's than Apple is today.
I have owned a couple of Sony Cybershot cameras as P&S and was always pretty happy with their IQ and overall quality(this is before I bought my first DSLR, a Canon.)
I'm thrilled with the new FF rumors. I was very curious about the RX1, but settled for the EOS-M with 22mm for 10% of the cost, a choice I've been very happy with.
However, one of my main reasons for doing this was that I wanted to save money for the hopefully awesome FF mirrorless camera that is soon to be announced. I'm thinking of selling all my DSLR gear now and buying this camera if they can put the pieces together in to a solid overall camera with a few nice lens choices.
I am very tired of big, heavy DSLR's, and I am thrilled at the idea of downsizing to an EOS M and hopefully a similar size FF system!!!
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Sella174

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2013, 03:01:46 AM »
Putting an EF mount on a mirrorless camera adds a ridiculous amount of bulk which defeats the whole point of a mirrorless setup ...

I cannot agree with this reasoning, for the simple fact that current technology has made the mirror redundant.
Happily ignoring the laws of physics and the rules of photography to create better pictures.

9VIII

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2013, 07:10:07 PM »

If the EOS 6D Mark II went mirrorless than that would be pointless without a mount change and new lens lineup.

Putting an EF mount on a mirrorless camera adds a ridiculous amount of bulk which defeats the whole point of a mirrorless setup but to call it a 6D Mark II would make no sense to change mounts going from the Mk I -> Mk II.

The sony E mount makes sense because it has a 18mm flange distance vs 44mm for the EF mount.

The new FF lensmount could simply comprise shortening the distance from sensor plane to lens flange and introducing an adapter to take up the space, so that old lenses could still be used. As for the need for a new lens lineup, I somewhat agree with you, but, since the old lenses would still be usable, the new lineup can be introduced over several years. Hopefully the new lenses would be smaller than the old.

As for a name, how about "M6D"?

I agree, but they could also (for some lenses anyway, especially the UWA) retain the EF mount and have the rear element protrude into the 'mirror'less box as was not uncommon before.

That's actually a really good idea. They could sink the lens in 10mm without even switching back caps, and with the simple addition of a new back cap they could make the "flange distance" whatever they want, potentially eliminating the complicated retrofocus design in wide angle lenses.
It would be really cool to have a pancake recessed almost completely inside the camera body.
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moreorless

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2013, 01:44:15 AM »
Canon is so far behind in technology that it just isn't funny anymore. I've said it before and I'll say it again ... the EOS 100D should have been a mirrorless camera (comparable to the Panasonic G3 and G5), the EOS 70D should have been a mirrorless camera (comparable to the Panasonic G6 and GH3, and the Olympus E-M5 and E-M1), and the EOS 6D Mark II must be a full-frame mirrorless camera. Add to this that Canon is trying to sell the current crop of DSLR's, especially the 70D, to amateur videographers, but has absolutely nothing comparable to Olympus' (and now Sony's) 5-axis IBIS.

As an aside, what current mirrorless systems lack in terms of native lenses, they make good in support for the plethora of old, yet excellent, manual focus lenses.

...and yet the Canon DSLR's are vastly outselling these mirrorless options. Personally I think Canon should look at something like Fuji's viewfinder, have an OVF that can convert to an EVF for video use.

With the RX1 I think its a mistake to relate the amount of talk on the net to actual sales success, look at the Amazon sales rankings right now and its at #1804 where as the 6D is at #199.

To me the FF market just seems like it might be a tougher nut for mirrorless systems to crack for a number of reasons. I think your likely dealing with a much more demanding userbase in terms of both performance/handling and the expected lens lineup while also having to deal with more larger lenses. Would a 28-70mm F/4 lens and a 35mm F/2.8 prime get people excited on a FF DSLR system?

Dispite the hype that there mostly stealing DSLR sales I think the truth of smaller sensor mirrorless systems is that a lot of(maybe most of) there sales are being driven by compact upgraders, that's IMHO the reason growth is slowing as this new market reaches saturation. I think its going to be a tougher sell getting these kinds of users to buy FF, with ASPC/43 systems your looking at a much greater jump in sensor performance relatively to compacts without as much a jump in price.

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2013, 01:44:15 AM »

Cali_PH

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2013, 10:52:20 AM »
So, latest rumors from that site:

- Official announcement due October 16th; potentially due out in December
- 2  models, A7 (24MP sensors, about $1700 US, $1998 w/kit 24-70) & A7r (36MP $2198 body only)
- New sensors; details not specific
- Interesting rumor that initial offering will include lens mounts for free (Canon, Nikon, Leica).  If true, I'd guess manual focus only.  Could be smart as there are few native lenses expected at launch.
- Focus peaking, eye AF, Wifi, 1/8000 shutter, weather sealed tiltable screen, no IBIS.

I gotta admit, if this thing performs well, I'll be tempted to try one out with my Canon lenses for landscape shots!

Albi86

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2013, 11:10:03 AM »
I'm very intrigued. Apparently a couple of Zeiss primes as well as a 24-70/4 and a 70-200/4 should be announced in the same event. Not to mention that mirrorless means you can mount any lens you like - M-mount anyone?

The EOS-M and the MS Surface are the proof of what happens when you join the party too late. Hope other big players will step up their game. Nikon 1 system is also sort of agonizing at the moment.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 11:11:46 AM by Albi86 »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2013, 02:35:50 PM »
Actually, the biggest downside is Sony's lack of owner support.  Three months turnaround for repairs is not uncommon, two months is common.
 
No Pro Photographer who knows this would even consider a Sony.  Sony is so much worse than Nikon that it actually makes Nikon look good.

Dylan777

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2013, 07:00:09 PM »
So, latest rumors from that site:

- Official announcement due October 16th; potentially due out in December
- 2  models, A7 (24MP sensors, about $1700 US, $1998 w/kit 24-70) & A7r (36MP $2198 body only)
- New sensors; details not specific
- Interesting rumor that initial offering will include lens mounts for free (Canon, Nikon, Leica).  If true, I'd guess manual focus only.  Could be smart as there are few native lenses expected at launch.
- Focus peaking, eye AF, Wifi, 1/8000 shutter, weather sealed tiltable screen, no IBIS.

I gotta admit, if this thing performs well, I'll be tempted to try one out with my Canon lenses for landscape shots!

The rumor pictures look good. They claimed AF is faster than RX1 - which is a plus. If body size is slightly bigger than RX1, I'm all in with 36MP, A7 R + Zeiss 50mm f1.4 to start. I would like to add 14, 16, or 17mm and 85mm zeiss to this compact system. I hope Fuji will release some FF retro soon. I LOVE-LOVE-LOVE the looks of X100s.

I might end up keeping just one 5D III + 70-200 and/or 135L.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 07:10:41 PM by Dylan777 »
Body: 1DX -- 5D III
Zoom: 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 400L f2.8 IS II

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Re: Sony FF NEX - competition is good. Canon?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2013, 07:00:09 PM »