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Author Topic: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina  (Read 21069 times)

chardinej

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2011, 08:00:32 PM »
I disagree on one point. I shoot the 1DIV in a less-than-semi-professional capacity. I would like nothing more than a mirrorless body to fit on a super-tele that would lighten the load hugely, give me say 20-30 fps, FF at 20-30 mp and be ultrafast at autofocusing and processing the images. My 1DIV is the size and weight it is to allow a mirror to flap up and down at a rate that will get me 10fps. Get rid of all that overhead and you are left with a mirrorless, pro body. That's what Canon should produce.

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2011, 08:00:32 PM »

Zuuyi

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2011, 08:20:54 PM »
I want a FF under 2k. $1999 is a lot easier to pay then $2500.
I don't care about FPS.  I want a portrait/wedding standard.  But I just don't see it happening.  I don't want crop but I don't need a 5d3.  It's hard to justify such a camera.  I'm sorry I will  pay 2000 instead of the 3200 5d kit price; and get the Tamron 25-75/1.8, Sigma 1.4, and still have $200 in my pocket.
But it's likely I will just have to buy a 5D2 because it will still be a Great camera when the 5d3 comes out. 

I'm hoping for a $2000 price point for the 5d3 (not likely); for the mythical 3d to get a 3500 price point a some space in the price range. This would make the 7d a prosumer sports shooter and the 5d3 would get more people who planned on the 7d to move up.

I just don't see a 6d showing up in the line up (even though I want it); and I don't see a purpose for a 2-4d; what professional need is missing that will fall in the 2500-5000 price point.  Only one I see is a Camera that does 4k to fight against Red.

niccyboy

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2011, 10:35:35 PM »
Would love the 5dmk3 to pop up for a release soon, I currently operate with a few mk2s and a 7d, and just hate that 5d focus, and 7d's poor low light and weak colours... besides that they are still good units.

I also was an early adopter of hdslr video, with rigs, follow focuses etc, and have since changed to Sony Nex VG10s due to the ergonomics, audio quality, autofocus, and ability to put eos adapters on it. So an EOS mount video camera would be snapped up immediately.

I almost went up to the 1d recently but decided to get another body to run a short and long lens simultaneously as i couldnt justify the extra cost vs the features. I think Canon are shooting themselves in the foot if they don't put a bigger gap between the 5dmk3 and the 1d's.

my 2 cents!

photogaz

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2011, 05:21:54 AM »
6D - Haha, there's no way in hell Canon would release another 9 type auto focus system - It's TOO dated!

jimmy156

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2011, 09:13:50 AM »
Tommorow - 12 Months
November 3rd, 2011
5Dmk3 - Welcome to Hollywod. Same Full Frame. Digic V. No More Megapixels, we don't need them.  Big push is in Video. And for god's sake no Rotating Screen.   If you can afford this camera you can get a secondary screen for video; and for on the go photographer's the screen is the weakest point. Cycle says 2011; 3 years 1 month
which is November 2011(sounds familiar).  * Edit - And the fact that Red is having an annoucement the same day says High End  EOS & Video. Which Screams 5d3 to me*

Jan - Feb 2012
1Dmk5 - Olympics. Speed. Speed. Speed. 4 year cycle says 2011. But I think early 2012.  Plus the current one is Digic 3 and that needs to be updated. Canon loves those huge L Lenses at sporting events; so they will release it Jan-Feb 2012 so they can update before June.

Feb - Mar 2012
7Dmk2 & T4i - I think they will be released at the same time Digic 5 of course. 7d going even further in the Video world. Feb-Mar 2012

13-24 months

January 2013
1DsmkIV - No rush but it is the flagship for studio photographers. 40 Megapixels, and not a pixel less. January 2013.

Feb - Mar 2013
T5i - Like Clockwork. The income sheet needs it's annual boost. Feb-Mar 2013

Summer - Fall 2013
60mkII - Updated; time for the 7dmk2 to sell.  Getting T2i, T3i, and T4i owners to upgrade for some more advanced video options. Summer - Fall 2013.

I don't see a 3d or 6d being released anytime soon.  They need to clean up the lines not add more. 
They offer 13 DSLR models.  They need to compact that list.  Plus I don't see them using "3d" unless it's 3-D.

My wish is the list being compacted to
1Ds - 5 Year Cycle  $7000
1D - 4 Year Cycle - $5000
5D - 3 Year Cycle - $2500
7D - 2 Year Cycle - $1500
XXD - 18 Month Cycle - $1000
XXXD - 1 Year Cycle - $750
XXXXD - 6 Month Cycle - $500

 

I don't really see those life cycles being so long. 1DIV is also dual digic 4 not 3. Also, how are there 13 models being offered? If you really see what's in stock you'll see that there's only the 1D, 5DII, 7D, 60D, 600D, and the crappy low end one. that's like 6 models.

O/T but this attitude irritates me. I know everyone here will be a gear/tech freak, but that doesent make low end camera's "crappy" This shot for example was taken with an 1000d and 18-55 kit lens... and was highly commended in the prestigous wildlife photographer of the year award.


goodmane

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2011, 09:43:25 AM »
Sounds reasonable. I just hope Canon bring out a full frame camera with a built-in flash like Nikon D700 as well as movie mode. Otherwise I might as well ditch my SLR system as I currently use my Canon G9/smartphone for loads of video and unfortunately my 5D stays at home for weeks gathering dust.

With a built-in flash and movie mode I would consider holding off purchase of micro 4/3 or Fuji x100 or waiting for Canon equivalent, and maybe just buy a small 35mm prime.

I would also dearly love to replace my large 24-70L f2.8 with a 24-70 f4 L that was half the size but still had good bokeh and distortion as opposed to the not so great and still fairly large (in my opinion) 24-105L.

Meh

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2011, 10:27:45 AM »

O/T but this attitude irritates me. I know everyone here will be a gear/tech freak, but that doesent make low end camera's "crappy" This shot for example was taken with an 1000d and 18-55 kit lens... and was highly commended in the prestigous wildlife photographer of the year award.


That's right, and great photo by the way.  Please realize that most people on this forum do know that great photos can be taken with "crappy" cameras.  Very cool photos can be taken with camera phones which most people, including pro photographers, carry around with them.  Most gearheads on this site also have a P&S but probably a pretty good one rather than a crappy one :)

You do touch on a good point.  There is a tendency to begin referring to anything less than the best available or even an ideal soon-to-be-announced camera to be "crappy".  The 7D has been called crappy.  The 5D2 focus has been called crappy.  Etc.  Well, that's just not true in absolute terms... comparatively, there might be some other camera that does a slightly better job at a particular feature but suddenly it's as if there's a night and day difference.  The Sony sensor in the Nikon D7000 had an extra stop of DR at low ISO and suddenly every other camera out there is crap, outdated, etc.  Nonsense.

To be fair, there are many pundits on here for focusing on real world image quality so there's a balance in the discussions.  No one feature or attribute is the best in all situations.  That's not to say each new feature or attribute isn't important.  They all are under certain situations.  Sports shooters need high frame rates, landscape photographers do not.  Everyone can benefit from higher DR at times but not every scene has even 10 stops of DR and in fact some photos look better with less DR so the photographer will clip the shadow details in photoshop to get more contrast and many other examples.

Gear is good.  Technology is good.  And it's cool when camera manufacturers give us something that hasn't been possible in the past.  Every camera has it's use from an iPhone all the way to a 1D4 and medium format.  Film is good so is digital... they each have different benefits and limitations.

It's fun.  No need for anyone to be offended or irritated except if anyone is rude or disrespectful to others and those trolls know who they are.  :)


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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2011, 10:27:45 AM »

Woody

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2011, 11:58:46 AM »
I seriously doubt Canon will commit commercial suicide by NOT releasing an update to any of their APS-C camera. New/updates for 1D/5D/3D/6D all sound nice and dandy but represent only a small fraction of Canon's income source. They must be seriously stupid if they shy away from mirrorless bodies... especially since every major player has already released a mirrorless camera except Canon.

Woody

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2011, 12:09:49 PM »

The business of DSLRs has changed indeed.
With the D7000 and the A77/Nex-7, the price point of the 'enthusiast' class of cameras has moved down to $1200.
At the same time, we see mirrorless eating at the bottom of the DSLR market.
I thus expect some major changes of the non-FF lineup.
Canon needs an ultra-compact Rebel (if not mirrorless) and an appealing $1200 offering.
This will affect all 1.6x models. Can't predict at this time what will happen but I see re-alignments in all three model lines - Rebel, xxD, and 7D.

My thoughts exactly.

foobar

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2011, 12:17:07 PM »
My take on "What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina":

Overall I don't think we'll see many surprises, mainly incremental updates except for the 1Ds.
I'd love to see Canon playing with some new concepts (hybrid viewfinder anyone?) but Canon seems to be pretty conservative in that regard.


EOS 1D/1Ds
I think a fast FF camera is overdue and I also think that APS-H is on it's way out. I've said this before and I know that some people think differently about the topic, but Nikon upped the game with the D3 and it's Canons turn to catch up - but now they'll have to compete with the upcoming D4. Also, we can expect Canon's new processor to be fast enough to allow for high speed and high resolution at the same time.

To please the current APS-H shooters, I could imagine Canon offering an APS-H crop-mode, probably in combination with an LCD viewfinder overlay (they could show the outline or even completely black out the unused parts of the frame). I also think that they'll continue to sell the 1D4 as long as there's demand for it.


5DIII/3D/6D

There will be a 5DIII.
If there will be a cheaper FF camera, I'm pretty sure it will be the 5DIII and not a 6D or something like that. I'm still of the opinion that the 5D series is Canon's "cheap FF" series. What would you do to make the 5D2 cheaper? Plastic body? Penta mirror VF? Worse AF? Slower FPS? Not really. Feature-wise the 5D2 already plays in the same league as the XXD series (before the 60D), so the next step would be to make it the "FF rebel". I don't think we want Canon to go there.

Anyway, I think the most likely scenario is that the 5DIII is simply an evolutionary upgrade to the 5DII. Better AF, new sensor, new processor, a lot of new software features. I don't expect any surprise moves from Canon.


7D Mark II
Might get launched at Photokina 2012 but not before that.


70D
No idea, really. We'll probably either see this or the 7D2 at Photokina (with the other camera being released in 2013).


650D
Will probably be released as a minor update to the 600D in early 2012. It will probably just switch to Digic 5 and add a few minor features like video AF (similar to Nikon). In the entry-level camera class this has become almost like fashion. Every manufacturer needs something new each year, so consumers don't think they're buying "old tech".
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 12:22:35 PM by foobar »

Meh

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2011, 12:42:31 PM »
EOS 1D/1Ds
Also, we can expect Canon's new processor to be fast enough to allow for high speed and high resolution at the same time.

To please the current APS-H shooters, I could imagine Canon offering an APS-H crop-mode


I think your first statement above is correct and makes APS-H mode unnecessary... the 16MP APS-H sensor size was a compromise between pixel density, large enough pixels to get good SNR, and ability to process at 10fps.  The Sony A77 is processing 12fps at 24MP so that should give us an indication that DIGIC5 or dual DIGIC5 should be able to process 10fps at about 28MP (the APS-H sensor scaled up to FF) or higher.  So the only reason to implement crop mode now would be to achieve something like 20fps which probably isn't necessary but could be nice to have I suppose (not that there's any reason to think they could get the mirror up to that speed).

In a top line camera that can sell for top dollar, they can put in a huge buffer to give as many shots as they want at full resolution 10-12 fps.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 12:44:31 PM by Meh »

Bob Howland

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2011, 01:41:25 PM »
I always have problems differentiating between what I want and what I think will happen, but here goes

1D/1Ds - 1D4 continues unchanged. 1Ds4 introduced during October or November with 27MP FF, 8FPS and two Digic 5 processors at a price of $5500. The 1Ds4 sensor is essentially the 1D4 sensor enlarged to FF and heavily revised, meaning that Canon sets the 1D4 and 1Ds4 against each other in the marketplace. The 1Ds4 and 7D2 (see below) kill off the 1D4 within a year.

6D/3D/9D (pick your number) - Also introduced during this October or November. Approx 16MP FF sensor with outstanding high ISO image quality and DR. The body is not entry level. Rather it is the "small professional body" that was rumored last December (or thereabouts) and has focusing to match. 5-6FPS. The video quality and capabilities are also outstanding (recall that video doesn't require a lot of pixels). WRT video, this is the successor to the 5D2. Cost approximately $3000.

5D3 - Introduced at Photokina. Same body as 6D/3D/9D except with a 40MP+ sensor and 3FPS. Cost approximately $3500. The studio/landscape photographers' camera. Image quality looks a lot like the 7D/7D2 except bigger.

7D2 - Introduced at Photokina and still APS-C. Moved upmarket to replace the 1D4 as the professional sports photographers' crop camera. Body is similar to the 5D3 and 3D/6D/9D bodies, but more rugged. 12FPS and 16MP with dual Digic 5 processors. Cost: $2200.

However, may be mirrorless with an EVF, permitting ridiculously high frame rates and adding $1000 to the cost.

Other APS-C cameras - Don't know. Don't care.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 01:53:35 PM by Bob Howland »

c.d.embrey

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2011, 03:15:22 PM »
... but I just don't see any compelling argument to buy into the Sony ecosphere ...

Zeiss lenses are a good reason. Some of the old/recycled Minolta lenses are as good as Canon/Nikon lenses.

Quote
I'm admittedly biased against the Sony the parent company, and have a smoldering hatred for some of their subsidiaries; but I'll gladly give credit where credit is due.  I'm just not confident they're in it for the long haul.

I've used Sony professional Video Cameras for over 20 years. No complaints. My limited testing of the $600.00 Sony NEX 5n (gorgeous video) makes me think that someday soon Sony will be considered one of the best.

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2011, 03:15:22 PM »

c.d.embrey

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2011, 03:34:42 PM »
The POS 60D was/is a dated design, compare it to the Nikon D7000 released at the same time.

The POS 60D is the reason I bought a Sony NEX 5n. The Sony NEX 5n is the reason I'm buying a Sony NEX 7.

Cameras are just tools (not religious objects), and Canon has stopped building tools that I want/need.


neuroanatomist

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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2011, 03:40:52 PM »
1Ds4 introduced during October or November with 27MP FF

5D3... with a 40MP+ sensor and 3FPS. Cost approximately $3500.

1DsIV at 27 MP and 5DIII at 40+ MP?  I think that's highly unlikely.

Other APS-C cameras - Don't know. Don't care.

Care?  Not really.  But the sun will rise tomorrow, govenrments will collect taxes, and we'll see a new Rebel/xxxD in 1Q2012.  Everything else is up in the air...
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
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Re: Opinion - What EOS Will Look Like by Photokina
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2011, 03:40:52 PM »