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Author Topic: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?  (Read 3462 times)

Loren E

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7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« on: September 30, 2013, 05:09:16 PM »
I am getting more serious about wildlife photography and recently switched camps from Nikon to Canon. Loving the Canon glass I have been shooting. One thing though for budget wildlife photography that Nikon currently has going for it is the D7100's "reach" between being able to AF with teleconverters at F8 (for example the 80-400 + 1.4TC) as well as the 24mp pixel density.

Do others think Canon will try to keep up paces and add F8 AF abilities in the 7DmkII, like implemented in the 5DmkIII, to keep up paces with the D7100? The 400mm F5.6L + 1.4TC on a 24ish megapixel crop sensor would be a budget/travel wildlife photographer's dream! At least for me. Curious if others think the demand is there for this AF implementation to make it to crop sensors in Canon land.

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7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« on: September 30, 2013, 05:09:16 PM »

jrista

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2013, 05:12:40 PM »
It would really depend on what AF unit they use in the 7D II. If they stick with the 19pt system, then there is no way you'll get f/8 AF. If they drop in the 5D III/1D X 61pt AF system, I see no reason to think they wouldn't offer f/8 AF. If they create something new, such as a 41pt AF system, your guess is as good as mine. Canon has never seemed too concerned with competitive efforts from Nikon. I think the primary reason they put teh 61pt system in the 5D III was because their customers were screaming LOUD and CLEAR for it.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2013, 05:37:28 PM »
We'll have to wait and see.  I believe the 7DII will get a brand new AF sensor falling between the current 19-pt (now in the 70D) and the 1D X/5DIII's 61-pt sensor.  I doubt it'll have f/8 AF.  The 400/5.6 + 1.4x is about the only combo outside of the 500/600 + 2x that could be usable from an IQ standpoint, and even then I'd not call it a dream except for cost - you'll likely want to stop down to f/11 for sharpness, and you'll need a lot of light (or a tripod) for a shake-free shot at 900mm FF-eq with a >18 MP sensor.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2013, 05:40:37 PM »
If the Dual Pixel CMOS AF is fast and accurate enough, that works out to f/11 (although I'm skeptical of accuracy at narrow max apertures).
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jrista

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2013, 06:45:37 PM »
If the Dual Pixel CMOS AF is fast and accurate enough, that works out to f/11 (although I'm skeptical of accuracy at narrow max apertures).

For wildlife, I would have additional concerns as well. How does tracking perform when you are rapidly panning? How is tracking consistency? For that matter, how is the consistency overall, even at f/5.6? With video, you have a continuous stream of frames at high speed that the DPAF firmware can use to provide more accuracy, something you don't really have with wildlife or bird or sports photography.
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Don Haines

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2013, 07:42:52 PM »
If the Dual Pixel CMOS AF is fast and accurate enough, that works out to f/11 (although I'm skeptical of accuracy at narrow max apertures).

For wildlife, I would have additional concerns as well. How does tracking perform when you are rapidly panning? How is tracking consistency? For that matter, how is the consistency overall, even at f/5.6? With video, you have a continuous stream of frames at high speed that the DPAF firmware can use to provide more accuracy, something you don't really have with wildlife or bird or sports photography.
It all depends on how they implement it... With the dual pixel technology, you could have 20 million point auto focus. It all depends on how they decide to track focus.... And for that we have to wait and see. Point and shoot cameras can recognize and track individual faces, perhaps the 7D2 can track birds the same way...
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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 08:31:55 PM »
If the Dual Pixel CMOS AF is fast and accurate enough, that works out to f/11 (although I'm skeptical of accuracy at narrow max apertures).

For wildlife, I would have additional concerns as well. How does tracking perform when you are rapidly panning? How is tracking consistency? For that matter, how is the consistency overall, even at f/5.6? With video, you have a continuous stream of frames at high speed that the DPAF firmware can use to provide more accuracy, something you don't really have with wildlife or bird or sports photography.
It all depends on how they implement it... With the dual pixel technology, you could have 20 million point auto focus. It all depends on how they decide to track focus.... And for that we have to wait and see. Point and shoot cameras can recognize and track individual faces, perhaps the 7D2 can track birds the same way...

Individual faces of birds... wow!  ;D

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 08:31:55 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2013, 10:56:00 PM »
Individual faces of birds... wow!  ;D

I recall reading that someone mentioned the 1D X face detection during phase AF worked for owl faces...
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Don Haines

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2013, 11:35:52 PM »
Individual faces of birds... wow!  ;D

I recall reading that someone mentioned the 1D X face detection during phase AF worked for owl faces...
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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2013, 11:37:38 PM »
I had no trouble with f/8 AF on my 7D, my 40D, or even my old 10D when using a Kenko DGX TC and my 100-400mml.  There is a incompatibility with a 100L, but AF works well with the Kenko.  No need to worry or wait if you need it, its been here for a long time.

Loren E

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2013, 12:22:55 AM »
How was image quality with that TC? I am curious how much it would degrade IQ with the 400 F5.6...

Also is it a non-reporting TC so that the 7D body reads F5.6 instead of F8?



I had no trouble with f/8 AF on my 7D, my 40D, or even my old 10D when using a Kenko DGX TC and my 100-400mml.  There is a incompatibility with a 100L, but AF works well with the Kenko.  No need to worry or wait if you need it, its been here for a long time.

jrista

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2013, 01:07:38 AM »
Individual faces of birds... wow!  ;D

I recall reading that someone mentioned the 1D X face detection during phase AF worked for owl faces...

That was Andy Rouse, and he had a number of shots to demonstrate it.
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jrista

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2013, 01:12:14 AM »
I had no trouble with f/8 AF on my 7D, my 40D, or even my old 10D when using a Kenko DGX TC and my 100-400mml.  There is a incompatibility with a 100L, but AF works well with the Kenko.  No need to worry or wait if you need it, its been here for a long time.

I also have the Kenko DGX. I purchased it for the explicit purpose of using it with the 100-400mm. It works, but only in stellar light. During the times of day I needed it most, mornings and afternoons just after and just before sunset, it pretty much did not work at all. It is really a mixed bag when you do f/8 AF on a camera body that does not officially support it. When it does work, it is very slow. Hunting occurs frequently. When I have great direct sunlight, it will usually work, but I've also noticed that it lacks precision...when it "locks", focus is usually off just a little bit. It is random, whether it focuses front or back, so the 7D AFMA is not helpful when using it. Further, CA and IQ become very problematic when using the Kenko with the 100-400.

I've used the Kenko with the EF 600mm f/4 L II, and its performance is stellar. Focus is pretty fast (although I believe the primary limiting factor here is actually the 7D, I hope a 5D III will be faster), and it is pretty accurate. Precision is good. CA definitely increases with the Kenko, and depending on the light and atmospherics, IQ can suffer to an undesirable degree.

It is a good TC, but I would not go so far as to say that you'll get flawless or even great f/8 AF performance out of it on a body that does not officially support f/8 AF. You might get some good performance at some times with the right kind of light, and at other times you may get nothing but full-range hunting and zero focus locks.
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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2013, 01:12:14 AM »

AlanF

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2013, 02:33:05 AM »

I've used the Kenko with the EF 600mm f/4 L II, and its performance is stellar. Focus is pretty fast (although I believe the primary limiting factor here is actually the 7D, I hope a 5D III will be faster), and it is pretty accurate. Precision is good. CA definitely increases with the Kenko, and depending on the light and atmospherics, IQ can suffer to an undesirable degree.


A TC costs only a few percent of the price of the 600/4 II. The Canon Mk III TC is specifically designed to dovetail with the II series lenses. Have you tried it?
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jrista

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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2013, 03:13:49 AM »

I've used the Kenko with the EF 600mm f/4 L II, and its performance is stellar. Focus is pretty fast (although I believe the primary limiting factor here is actually the 7D, I hope a 5D III will be faster), and it is pretty accurate. Precision is good. CA definitely increases with the Kenko, and depending on the light and atmospherics, IQ can suffer to an undesirable degree.


A TC costs only a few percent of the price of the 600/4 II. The Canon Mk III TC is specifically designed to dovetail with the II series lenses. Have you tried it?

I own both the EF 1.4x and 2x TC IIIs. Both are superb (although I am relegated to manual focus with the 2x until I can afford a 5D III.) The primary improvement is corner performance. The 1.4x TC II is only barely better than the Kenko. The 1.4x TC III has a definite improvement in corner performance and CA handling. Center performance is pretty similar between the Canon and Kenko 1.4x TCs.
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Re: 7DmkII F8 AF for wildlife?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2013, 03:13:49 AM »