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Author Topic: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]  (Read 39662 times)

ME

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: October 08, 2013, 12:35:33 AM »
I'm surprised at the feelings that the price is too high.  $50,000 and up is common for high quality Cinema lenses, and some are so expensive that they won't sell them, just lease them.
 
$4,000 is chicken feed as far as high end lenses go.
Of course, the spy agencies have been known to invest hundreds of millions.


I'm not saying it is too high. It is too high for my budget. I would also like to have the Zeiss 15/f2.8, but my budget wont allow it at this time. The Zeiss 35/1.4, 135/f2 are also in my sights. I have the 50/1.4, the 21/f2.8, and 100/f2 mp. Can only afford so many Zeiss's at a time, unless you would consider a no-interest loan over a 10yr span ;D. I wonder if I could borrow the Hubble for a while. After all, my tax dollars paid for a few molecules of it.
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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: October 08, 2013, 12:35:33 AM »

bleephotography

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #76 on: October 08, 2013, 01:46:10 AM »
Here's a lengthy interview/preview by B&H: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DILwPyQKDA

Personally, if it had AF I'd be willing to fork out $4k, which is not to say it isn't worth the money; it just isn't worth my money.
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Eldar

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2013, 02:00:56 AM »
There are endless threads on this forum about the slow AF of the 85 1.2L II. This Zeiss lens have 248 deg rotation angle of focusing ring and I assume it carries (at least) as much glass. For you who understand this better than me, wouldn´t that end up being a very slow AF?
Canonite and Zeissoholic ...

duydaniel

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2013, 02:06:26 AM »
Here's a lengthy interview/preview by B&H: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DILwPyQKDA

Personally, if it had AF I'd be willing to fork out $4k, which is not to say it isn't worth the money; it just isn't worth my money.

Thanks
After watching, I have more respect for Zeiss

dgatwood

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2013, 02:12:01 AM »
From what's reported so far, the big advantage of Zeiss 55 will be corner sharpness wide open.  For those who need that, well price could be no object. 

It's mentioned that mere mortal lenses can be similarly sharp in the center wide open and when stopped down.  Early users are also reporting the Zeiss is perhaps too sharp for portraits, calling it "Portrait for perfect skin" lens, so for non-model adults I shoot, I would be stuck with less post-processing time with my L primes.

Yeah, that's another reason I don't get this lens.  What's the target audience?

Corner sharpness in a portrait lens just isn't that important, typically.  If anything, it is undesirable; many of the lenses that I've seen folks rate as being the best for portraits are some of the softest at the corners, because corner softness puts emphasis on the subject, who is typically at the center.

And for landscapes, 55mm is typically too narrow by a factor of two-ish, so I can't imagine that they intended those folks to buy it, either.

And no AF means that you won't realistically want to use it as your walking-around lens (not to mention that 55mm is a bit tight for that—IMO the sweet spot is somewhere in the 30-40mm range).

*shrugs*  I guess they think somebody is looking for this lens.  I just wish I understood who.


There are endless threads on this forum about the slow AF of the 85 1.2L II. This Zeiss lens have 248 deg rotation angle of focusing ring and I assume it carries (at least) as much glass. For you who understand this better than me, wouldn´t that end up being a very slow AF?

Probably, yes.  They presumably built it the way they did so that it would be easier to manually focus accurately.  Precise manual focus and autofocus speed are basically at odds with one another.

George D.

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #80 on: October 08, 2013, 03:31:33 AM »
"The golden standard"... Standing ovation to Zeiss. Takane no hana (Jpn: something beyond reach).
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mb66energy

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: October 08, 2013, 03:42:01 AM »
There are endless threads on this forum about the slow AF of the 85 1.2L II. This Zeiss lens have 248 deg rotation angle of focusing ring and I assume it carries (at least) as much glass. For you who understand this better than me, wouldn´t that end up being a very slow AF?

AF speed depends on the forces you can apply to the moving elements. The higher the forces the higher the acceleration and the faster the moving elements of the focusing group are in place.
But the forces to accelerate an object are proportional to the mass of that object - so your idea is basically correct if you take into account that the forces you can apply in a lens are limited. That is the fact because the battery of a camera can only provide some limited power and this limits the forces on - e.g. - focusing elements.
Compare a 30 kW engine for a motorcycle and a truck.

Internal focusing is a solution with telephotos: You move a small and more or less lightweight element to gain focus. In Zeiss' OTUS 1.4 55 I see only massive lenses/lens groups so it will be limited in that way.

You can overcome that problem with stronger batteries (or perhaps a supercap which provides power peaks) and stronger motors but ... fast acceleration and deceleration of massive lens groups will rotate or shift your lens/camera system substantially. You can add additional masses which move in the opposite direction to compensate for this effect ... twice the power is needed and we speak about a 2 kg lens system with a 1/2 kg battery ... not exactly a system for the hobbyist!
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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: October 08, 2013, 03:42:01 AM »

GMCPhotographics

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2013, 03:49:38 AM »
I totally agree and unfortunatly we live the generation of lens chart "experts" who troll internet review re-gurgitating the same old twollop, without every understanding why or how to use a particular lens. It reminds me of the old mk 24-70L lens....widely slamed by review sites and yet it's in the lens bag of 99% of professionals who shoot Canon. It was the web based amatures who dissed it while most of the pros loved it and were perplexed by the amatures opinion. In my opinion many maligned lenses generally outperform their owners!
I wish people would seek perfection in their photography and not their gear!

For a portrait lens, say take a 35mm, I am looking for a lens which when shot wide open, has gentle vignetting and soft corners. Which has good contrast, good colour and sharpness. Not too much contrast or hyper colours. Accurate AF at both MFD and infinity and I need the out of focus rendering to be smooth and unfussy (eg 50L not 50 1.4). I need it small and light and not intimidating to my subject. Close Min focus is ideal but not essential, most portraits are around the 1 metre mark. If I need this lens for landscapes or studio, I expect the vignetting to go and the corners to shapen up and even up across the frame as I stop down.

Very few photographers actually need sharp corners wide open. Unfortunatly, twee lens review sites tell uninformed people that they do. There are photographers who shoot only lens charts and like twiddling their moustaches....apparently they consider themselves "experts" although they often don't seem to have the matching photos :D

Viggo

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2013, 04:08:17 AM »

Very few photographers actually need sharp corners wide open. Unfortunatly, twee lens review sites tell uninformed people that they do.

I agree with a lot of you say, but using the 5d3 and 1dx focusing system having sharp corners is the difference between having to only use center composition, or use the edge focusing points and still retain a sharp image. A HUGE difference for me. Try shooting the 50 L wide open at the edge focusing points, and then do the same with the 200 f2. It makes or breaks a composition. For me at least. It's not about having detail in the background with a center composed portrait.
1dx, Zeiss 21 f2.8, 35 L II, 200 f2.0 L, Profoto B1.

Isurus

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2013, 07:45:41 AM »
I'm honestly surprised by the negativity around price with this lens.  It's a niche lens with a complex design and near flawless image performance that demands a large price.  So be it I say.  I'd like to purchase it, but two things will prevent me from doing so in the short term:

  • Canon does not have a high megapixel body yet to take advantage of this lens.  Granted, there are certainly other benefits such as color rendition, contrast, edge-to-edge sharpness, but my guess is that it really shines with a high megapixel body
  • Manual focus through the viewfinder on newer Canon models is an exercise in frustration if you are extremely anal about perfect focus placement.  Forget about it on the 5D III, as the viewfinder presents an image with an f-stop well smaller than large ones on prime lenses.  I have a 1D-X, but have yet to try one of the focus screens that can be purchased, so maybe I can go that route.

Regardless, I find this thens very intriguing and hope to be able to rent a copy to try at some point.  I will reserve any judgment on price until then.

GMCPhotographics

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #85 on: October 08, 2013, 08:27:45 AM »
I'm honestly surprised by the negativity around price with this lens.  It's a niche lens with a complex design and near flawless image performance that demands a large price.  So be it I say.  I'd like to purchase it, but two things will prevent me from doing so in the short term:

  • Canon does not have a high megapixel body yet to take advantage of this lens.  Granted, there are certainly other benefits such as color rendition, contrast, edge-to-edge sharpness, but my guess is that it really shines with a high megapixel body
  • Manual focus through the viewfinder on newer Canon models is an exercise in frustration if you are extremely anal about perfect focus placement.  Forget about it on the 5D III, as the viewfinder presents an image with an f-stop well smaller than large ones on prime lenses.  I have a 1D-X, but have yet to try one of the focus screens that can be purchased, so maybe I can go that route.

Regardless, I find this thens very intriguing and hope to be able to rent a copy to try at some point.  I will reserve any judgment on price until then.

As MP goes up, difraction limitations increases...so the pros and cons of high MP cameras on a 35mm format is unkown at the moment.
It's true, the 5DIII and all Canon stock screens render a DOF of roughly f4...which is a million miles away from fast primes (f1.2). For f2.8 glass, it's not so important but for fast primes, it needs to be worked around. The 1Dx, 5DII and 6D have interchangable screens and when fitted with a "g rated" fine focus screen, the actual DOF can been seen in the viewfinder...but the screen is somewhat darker (fine if you are using primes). I have found that the Spot AF system (which I think isn't on the 1Dx - please correct me if i'm wrong) is fantastic and nailing a precisely placed point of focus, but it's tricky.
All DSLR's with liveview can "see" the right DOF on the back sceen....sure it's not as nice or easy to use as the view finder, but it's an option.
Will I be trying this lens? Probably not and I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to. It's 2013 and I need lenses which have top tier AF systems to match the capability of my top tier DSLR camera bodies.
 

Viggo

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2013, 08:36:07 AM »
I'm honestly surprised by the negativity around price with this lens.  It's a niche lens with a complex design and near flawless image performance that demands a large price.  So be it I say.  I'd like to purchase it, but two things will prevent me from doing so in the short term:

  • Canon does not have a high megapixel body yet to take advantage of this lens.  Granted, there are certainly other benefits such as color rendition, contrast, edge-to-edge sharpness, but my guess is that it really shines with a high megapixel body
  • Manual focus through the viewfinder on newer Canon models is an exercise in frustration if you are extremely anal about perfect focus placement.  Forget about it on the 5D III, as the viewfinder presents an image with an f-stop well smaller than large ones on prime lenses.  I have a 1D-X, but have yet to try one of the focus screens that can be purchased, so maybe I can go that route.

Regardless, I find this thens very intriguing and hope to be able to rent a copy to try at some point.  I will reserve any judgment on price until then.

As MP goes up, difraction limitations increases...so the pros and cons of high MP cameras on a 35mm format is unkown at the moment.
It's true, the 5DIII and all Canon stock screens render a DOF of roughly f4...which is a million miles away from fast primes (f1.2). For f2.8 glass, it's not so important but for fast primes, it needs to be worked around. The 1Dx, 5DII and 6D have interchangable screens and when fitted with a "g rated" fine focus screen, the actual DOF can been seen in the viewfinder...but the screen is somewhat darker (fine if you are using primes). I have found that the Spot AF system (which I think isn't on the 1Dx - please correct me if i'm wrong) is fantastic and nailing a precisely placed point of focus, but it's tricky.

 

"roughly f4" ? I think it's actually f2.5.

The 1d X have the spot-AF in the same way the 5d3 does, and also an advantage over the 5d3, the ability to set spot-metering to any focusing point.

I have the EC-S focusing screen for the 1d X, but I stopped using it after buying the 24-70 II, and it was indeed tricky, because metering isn't supported so you will be doing a fair bit of compensation.
1dx, Zeiss 21 f2.8, 35 L II, 200 f2.0 L, Profoto B1.

Rick

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If you paid more than $4k for a coffee maker, you deserve the Zeiss lens.
« Reply #87 on: October 08, 2013, 09:01:16 AM »
"Ridiculous" for one may be quite reasonable for another.  I think some will change their minds once they see some of the images this lens will be capable of.  I've certainly been tempted by the Zeiss Planar Macro after seeing some of those images.  By the way, this lens doesn't even cost as much as my coffee machine (La Cimbali).  That may be ridiculous to some, but more than worthwhile for me (the coffee machine, that is).

Somehow, I must believe you are pulling my leg.

I think 99.9999% out of 100 photographers will agree with me. However, at this price, maybe Zeiss only needs the .0001% to be profitable. The raw manufacturing cost of this lens would be only a fraction higher than any of their other 35mm SLR 50s.

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If you paid more than $4k for a coffee maker, you deserve the Zeiss lens.
« Reply #87 on: October 08, 2013, 09:01:16 AM »

nehemiah

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Re: If you paid more than $4k for a coffee maker, you deserve the Zeiss lens.
« Reply #88 on: October 08, 2013, 09:51:29 AM »
"Ridiculous" for one may be quite reasonable for another.  I think some will change their minds once they see some of the images this lens will be capable of.  I've certainly been tempted by the Zeiss Planar Macro after seeing some of those images.  By the way, this lens doesn't even cost as much as my coffee machine (La Cimbali).  That may be ridiculous to some, but more than worthwhile for me (the coffee machine, that is).

Somehow, I must believe you are pulling my leg.

I think 99.9999% out of 100 photographers will agree with me. However, at this price, maybe Zeiss only needs the .0001% to be profitable. The raw manufacturing cost of this lens would be only a fraction higher than any of their other 35mm SLR 50s.

Do you own any Zeiss glass?  I do.  I still have it and did not return it.  All those 99.9999% people that you are ASSUMING agree with you (even on this forum, you'll see more of an 70/30 split as to the opinion on this lens -- certainly not 99.9999 to .0001), every single one of them is familiar with the Zeiss name.  Why?  They've been in business for a long time, and seemingly are doing just fine.  Oh, but you know better than they what sells.

The lack of reason and humility around here is disconcerting. 

GMCPhotographics

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: October 08, 2013, 09:55:59 AM »
I'm honestly surprised by the negativity around price with this lens.  It's a niche lens with a complex design and near flawless image performance that demands a large price.  So be it I say.  I'd like to purchase it, but two things will prevent me from doing so in the short term:

  • Canon does not have a high megapixel body yet to take advantage of this lens.  Granted, there are certainly other benefits such as color rendition, contrast, edge-to-edge sharpness, but my guess is that it really shines with a high megapixel body
  • Manual focus through the viewfinder on newer Canon models is an exercise in frustration if you are extremely anal about perfect focus placement.  Forget about it on the 5D III, as the viewfinder presents an image with an f-stop well smaller than large ones on prime lenses.  I have a 1D-X, but have yet to try one of the focus screens that can be purchased, so maybe I can go that route.

Regardless, I find this thens very intriguing and hope to be able to rent a copy to try at some point.  I will reserve any judgment on price until then.

As MP goes up, difraction limitations increases...so the pros and cons of high MP cameras on a 35mm format is unkown at the moment.
It's true, the 5DIII and all Canon stock screens render a DOF of roughly f4...which is a million miles away from fast primes (f1.2). For f2.8 glass, it's not so important but for fast primes, it needs to be worked around. The 1Dx, 5DII and 6D have interchangable screens and when fitted with a "g rated" fine focus screen, the actual DOF can been seen in the viewfinder...but the screen is somewhat darker (fine if you are using primes). I have found that the Spot AF system (which I think isn't on the 1Dx - please correct me if i'm wrong) is fantastic and nailing a precisely placed point of focus, but it's tricky.

 

"roughly f4" ? I think it's actually f2.5.

The 1d X have the spot-AF in the same way the 5d3 does, and also an advantage over the 5d3, the ability to set spot-metering to any focusing point.

I have the EC-S focusing screen for the 1d X, but I stopped using it after buying the 24-70 II, and it was indeed tricky, because metering isn't supported so you will be doing a fair bit of compensation.

It's certainly higher than f2.8 becuase I've tested it with my lenses...stock screen and I can't see stopping down from f1.2 round to f4.

At launch there was internet forum chatter around the 1Dx's spot focus point only being usable on certain lenses, where as it was open to any lens on a 5DIII. But I could well be wrong, it's just what I remembered from the specs at launch. Where the 1Dx certainly as an AF feature is when all 61 points are active, the colour and face deetection AI Servo tracking is amazing. The 5DIII's tracking is excellent, but not in the same league. But the 5DIII is a different machine for different markets, it was heavily directed by a well known wedding photographer...hence the dual slots, pro AF, superior build and nearly silent shutter (very sweet and spookily quiet). 

There's a menu item custom function for the EC-S screen, it'll allow the camera to meter correctly. Otherwise, you'll get some funky and inconsistent metering.

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Re: Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Distagon Availability Coming in the Next 24 Hours? [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: October 08, 2013, 09:55:59 AM »