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Author Topic: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?  (Read 10392 times)

bdunbar79

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2013, 02:00:08 PM »
I crop and spend time in pp.  Why?  Because I can.  I can make my photos look the way I want them to look, with less effort.  It's called using the technology you have available to you.  I COULD frame a volleyball shot perfectly, if I needed to.  But instead I leave a little extra room and then crop the way I want.  Why not?  In film days yes, you had a limited number of shots and you couldn't edit.  But that's not the case anymore, so who really cares?  If you get the composition almost correct, and the exposure almost correct, due to our technology, then yes it'll be "good enough" with some pp.

I love digital.  A football wide receiver catching a pass mid-air with small DOF is commonplace these days, when way back when those photos were rare. 

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2013, 02:00:08 PM »

Rienzphotoz

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2013, 02:14:05 PM »
I was just making a simple comment about the analogy to address an issue I don't think you pay consideration to.  Reinz called me out on it, so I restated my opinion.  I'm not nitpicking anything, simply responding to comment made on my post.  Although I continued your analogy, the point of it was still very much on topic.

And your last comment is really an extension of my point.  There are plenty of people out there that just want a simple image to provide an illustration, be it for an article on a sports game, or to get people to come look at a house on the market.  Yes, all the people here probably do spend a decent amount of time in PP, but not everyone cares as much about photography as a bunch of guys that spend their day on camera chat forums.
why would anyone pay for a shot like that, where they could just as easily whip out their smartphone and do it themselves?  What a cake job! Screw this lighting and exposure nonsense just green box - click and send. Done.

Seriously? People pay for that junk? I am working way too hard then!
In India we have lots of weddings (we are over a billion people and premarital sex isn't considered to be a nice thing, however nice it actually feels  ;D, so obviously most of us have to get married, especially if we hope to get lifetime of free sex ;D) and we also have thousands of villages and towns but most couples/families (even in cities) cannot afford to buy even a simple cheap digital camera let alone a smartphone that is capable of taking decent images (even if they could afford a "simple" camera, most folk will only manage to take blurry pictures) ... so they hire a "wedding photographer", now those wedding photographers (believe it or not), use a Canon 1000D or a Nikon D3000 with a 18-55mm kit lens and a very bright/harsh tungsten light, (held by an assistant who gets paid less then $5 and the photographer himself gets less than $25) to take the photos for the whole wedding... now you and I (who are fortunate) might scoff at such a set up, but for the people getting married and their families it is a beautiful memory that they want to capture ... they want to see/show off that memory as fast as possible and the photographer takes it to a lab and gets it printed at a lab, slaps all those photos in a gaudy looking album and gives it to them the next morning ... fortunate photographers like us might look down on such photos, but they are priceless treasures for the couple. So yes people do pay for those photos and they are not considered junk by those who want such photos. Since this is the season of analogies, let me make a lame attempt at one: I might think Suzuki Alto is a junk car but for the person who has saved his/her hard earned money for years to buy that car, it is just as good as a Ferrari.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:42:16 PM by Rienzphotoz »
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Rienzphotoz

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2013, 02:35:28 PM »
My only point was/is that too many photographers today seem to rely on volume and chance, and a let´s-fix-it-in-post attitude, .
Nothing wrong with that ... people do what they think/know is important to them, it does not have to conform to the folk who approach photography in a more organized and professional way ... what I understand from your post is that you are a more methodical photographer and probably are more passionate about photography then those who rely on volume and chance, so I guess its a matter of difference in passion ... that being said the "volume and chance" type of photographers might be passionate about something else, (maybe PP?) Peace
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fragilesi

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #93 on: October 10, 2013, 02:48:06 PM »
My only point was/is that too many photographers today seem to rely on volume and chance, and a let´s-fix-it-in-post attitude, .
Nothing wrong with that ... people do what they think/know is important to them, it does not have to conform to the folk who approach photography in a more organized and professional way ... what I understand from your post is that you are a more methodical photographer and probably are more passionate about photography then those who rely on volume and chance, so I guess its a matter of difference in passion ... that being said the "volume and chance" type of photographers might be passionate about something else, (maybe PP?) Peace

Agreed, and in action photography like sports where what is about to happen is so unpredictable there is very strong argument for taking volumes of photos.

Marsu42

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2013, 04:37:22 PM »
In India we have lots of weddings (we are over a billion people and premarital sex isn't considered to be a nice thing, however nice it actually feels  ;D, so obviously most of us have to get married

I am in favor of reintroducing this scheme to the decadent western countries, it would at least create more jobs for us photogs :->

nightbreath

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #95 on: October 10, 2013, 04:51:08 PM »
Make your photos breathe, so you don't need to crop them later  :)

Wedding photography. My personal website: http://luxuryphoto.com.ua

jdramirez

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #96 on: October 10, 2013, 06:12:36 PM »
I was just making a simple comment about the analogy to address an issue I don't think you pay consideration to.  Reinz called me out on it, so I restated my opinion.  I'm not nitpicking anything, simply responding to comment made on my post.  Although I continued your analogy, the point of it was still very much on topic.

And your last comment is really an extension of my point.  There are plenty of people out there that just want a simple image to provide an illustration, be it for an article on a sports game, or to get people to come look at a house on the market.  Yes, all the people here probably do spend a decent amount of time in PP, but not everyone cares as much about photography as a bunch of guys that spend their day on camera chat forums.
why would anyone pay for a shot like that, where they could just as easily whip out their smartphone and do it themselves?  What a cake job! Screw this lighting and exposure nonsense just green box - click and send. Done.

Seriously? People pay for that junk? I am working way too hard then!
In India we have lots of weddings (we are over a billion people and premarital sex isn't considered to be a nice thing, however nice it actually feels  ;D, so obviously most of us have to get married, especially if we hope to get lifetime of free sex ;D) and we also have thousands of villages and towns but most couples/families (even in cities) cannot afford to buy even a simple cheap digital camera let alone a smartphone that is capable of taking decent images (even if they could afford a "simple" camera, most folk will only manage to take blurry pictures) ... so they hire a "wedding photographer", now those wedding photographers (believe it or not), use a Canon 1000D or a Nikon D3000 with a 18-55mm kit lens and a very bright/harsh tungsten light, (held by an assistant who gets paid less then $5 and the photographer himself gets less than $25) to take the photos for the whole wedding... now you and I (who are fortunate) might scoff at such a set up, but for the people getting married and their families it is a beautiful memory that they want to capture ... they want to see/show off that memory as fast as possible and the photographer takes it to a lab and gets it printed at a lab, slaps all those photos in a gaudy looking album and gives it to them the next morning ... fortunate photographers like us might look down on such photos, but they are priceless treasures for the couple. So yes people do pay for those photos and they are not considered junk by those who want such photos. Since this is the season of analogies, let me make a lame attempt at one: I might think Suzuki Alto is a junk car but for the person who has saved his/her hard earned money for years to buy that car, it is just as good as a Ferrari.

I don't begrudge people their memories... but I think most of us believe that if you pay good money, $25, you want the best bang for your buck.  And if you get less than what the market warrants, then the customer got robbed... or cheated maybe...

And so here in the states, if the customer pays $1500, you hope they get $1500 worth of competency. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #96 on: October 10, 2013, 06:12:36 PM »

Dylan777

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #97 on: October 10, 2013, 06:54:17 PM »
I've been told by an alleged pro photog that real photogs don't crop. I am wondering if this is true, or it is an old-school fairy tale from the analog age that falls into the category "real photogs don't use auto iso and only shoot in full m".

What next? you can't PP digital photos through lightroom/PS.
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ajfotofilmagem

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #98 on: October 10, 2013, 07:25:47 PM »
In India we have lots of weddings (we are over a billion people and premarital sex isn't considered to be a nice thing, however nice it actually feels  ;D, so obviously most of us have to get married, especially if we hope to get lifetime of free sex ;D) and we also have thousands of villages and towns but most couples/families (even in cities) cannot afford to buy even a simple cheap digital camera let alone a smartphone that is capable of taking decent images (even if they could afford a "simple" camera, most folk will only manage to take blurry pictures) ... so they hire a "wedding photographer", now those wedding photographers (believe it or not), use a Canon 1000D or a Nikon D3000 with a 18-55mm kit lens and a very bright/harsh tungsten light, (held by an assistant who gets paid less then $5 and the photographer himself gets less than $25) to take the photos for the whole wedding... now you and I (who are fortunate) might scoff at such a set up, but for the people getting married and their families it is a beautiful memory that they want to capture ... they want to see/show off that memory as fast as possible and the photographer takes it to a lab and gets it printed at a lab, slaps all those photos in a gaudy looking album and gives it to them the next morning ... fortunate photographers like us might look down on such photos, but they are priceless treasures for the couple. So yes people do pay for those photos and they are not considered junk by those who want such photos. Since this is the season of analogies, let me make a lame attempt at one: I might think Suzuki Alto is a junk car but for the person who has saved his/her hard earned money for years to buy that car, it is just as good as a Ferrari.
Here in Brazil, we have a middle ground between the wedding photography from India (US$25) and wedding albums in the USA (US$1,500). For 99% of grooms, a wedding album for $ 1500 is a criminal extortion. Here too there are the "photographers" who use D3000 with 18-55 and only the built-in flash. Some charge $ 80 to the newlyweds, and deliver photos on CD, and run away, it will need a lot of Photoshop to correct technical errors. Most photographers need honest talk at length to convince the couple that is worth paying $ 500 for a good quality work, and that no Photoshop will save pictures poorly made. Believe me when I say I have not seen any 5D mark III photographing wedding in my city of 3 million inhabitants. Maybe when there 5D mark IV, then we will see some 5D mark III at weddings.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 08:44:59 PM by ajfotofilmagem »

Famateur

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #99 on: October 10, 2013, 07:47:54 PM »
I usually read a thread all the way through before replying, but I just haven't the time tonight. My apologies if I'm repeating what someone else has said...

I've heard the "pros compose in-camera and never crop" but don't subscribe to it myself. While composition is always in mind as I shoot (for that matter, I'm constantly composing in my mind just looking at things), cropping can be a powerful artistic tool. Even if you nail the composition you had in mind at the time you pressed the shutter button, another (sometimes better) composition can be created with the crop tool.

I'll often be looking through "throw-away" images and suddenly see a different (crop-enabled) composition that takes the image from chopping block to cropping block to favorites folder.

I can't help but mentally crop nearly every image I see, anyway. :) 

Normalnorm

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #100 on: October 10, 2013, 08:32:57 PM »
Some time ago, I've been told by an alleged pro photog that real photogs don't crop, or at least only do minor angle correction. I am wondering if this is true, or it is an old-school fairy tale from the analog age that falls into the category "real photogs don't use auto iso and only shoot in full m".
[/b]

While I have heard the same thing (or variations such as "Use the whole neg, you paid for it") I see no use in being a slave to an arbitrary shape such as 4x5, 6x6 or 35mm. The fact is that an image is your creation and you can do as you see fit. It is not some sort of whack contest to see what you can stuff in a frame.

Although guilty myself, I no longer am enamored of the "cutout neg carrier"or "sloppy borders" trope that used to attest to ones FF integrity. One can easily drop a black border around any shape if it appeals to you but the notion that one must go "mano a mano" with your format is foolish.

dilbert

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #101 on: October 10, 2013, 08:42:25 PM »
Some time ago, I've been told by an alleged pro photog that real photogs don't crop, or at least only do minor angle correction. I am wondering if this is true, or it is an old-school fairy tale from the analog age that falls into the category "real photogs don't use auto iso and only shoot in full m".

All the pro sports photographers also shoot in JPEG. Does that mean you'll now shoot in JPEG too?

If you spend 30 seconds getting the framing and angle of the picture right when you press the button, how much post time do you save yourself?

dilbert

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #102 on: October 10, 2013, 09:18:01 PM »
I've gotten much better framing my shots, but I wonder if squeezing the last pixels out of your camera makes sense all the time. If I have a hard time framing a wildlife shot just right to get max. resolution, the Nikon guy next to me just shoots 24 or 36 mp and then crops some, gaining flexibility (aspect ratio, different framing) while probably not loosing much iq for usual print/screen sizes.
...
Thus the question: How do you do it - better safe than sorry, or go for the full "no cropping, please" experience?

With respect to framing, find books and web articles on composition.

And then sometimes I shoot knowing that I'm going to work on something in post and need more pixels around the subject than normal.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 09:19:59 PM by dilbert »

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #102 on: October 10, 2013, 09:18:01 PM »

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2013, 07:20:39 AM »
When I moved from roughly 30 years of shooting primarily slides to the digital age with a G-3, I naturally framed things as best I could and learned to use the freebie version of Photoshop Lite that came with it for editing.   Other than straightening things a bit, or sometimes wanting to be 'selective' about the subject, I didn't do much cropping at all.

But since moving from point and shoots to a 30D, then 60D and now 5D3, cropping became a necessity due to wearing glasses when I shoot.  I'm seeing perhaps 80% of the image in the viewfinder.  So, for me, cropping is a necessity.  Having the megapixels of a 5D3 that the 30D didn't have allows some fairly heavy-duty cropping with little, if any, noticable IQ loss.  I've even turned landscape format to portrait format pix when I discovered too much 'distraction' on the side(s) of the subject. 

J.R.

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2013, 08:46:13 AM »
I try to use anything that makes my images look better, whether it is cropping, using layers, LR adjustments ... you name it ... that's in my opinion, is the whole point of going digital.

I don't care whether anyone thinks PP or cropping is bad or that I am breaking some rule which was made in the days of film. 
Light is language!

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Re: How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2013, 08:46:13 AM »