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Author Topic: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement  (Read 29994 times)

mreco99

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2011, 07:36:19 AM »
I have a nikon d90 with a couple of lens'. Well its my friends, but he gave me it about 2 years ago as he wasnt using it. Im always concious when im using it that its not really mine, so ive never tried to do anything professional with it. So i dont have lots of my own kit but i wouldnt say im a beginner. I want to work my way up to doing music vidoes and weddings stills or videos, and i much prefer the images from a canon to what i use now. Id buy a 5dmkii now if it werent for aliasing on video.


Your right i could try and sell images, but i didnt think there was much money in stock images?

Depends what you call 'much money' and how good you are and how much effort you want to put in. The scale goes from wealthy induviduals to people with expensive kit who couldnt scrap enough sales together for a Big Mac.
A D90 is more than enough to be able to sell images as stock. I do just fine with a 450D, on a part time basis, selling as a hobby.

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2011, 07:36:19 AM »

CJRodgers

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2011, 07:47:09 AM »
OK well ill definaltey look into selling as stock then. What do you think it the most apporpriate canon to invest in then? Maybe a 60D? I want to own my kit is the thing. Any recommendations on stock websites that are good to sell to if i have enough talent.

photophreek

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2011, 08:09:25 AM »
The 5d3 at $2999 would be fine with me. 

How each of us spend our money on what is a very personal decision.  One post stated that spending this amount of money on a camera doesn't make sense to them and the poster would rather spend the money on going somewhere sunny.  I chuckled when I read that, because I would not spend that amount of money on a vacation.  Not saying that travelling is a waste of money, but that it is all relative. 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 08:17:54 AM by photophreek »

mreco99

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2011, 08:35:34 AM »
OK well ill definaltey look into selling as stock then. What do you think it the most apporpriate canon to invest in then? Maybe a 60D? I want to own my kit is the thing. Any recommendations on stock websites that are good to sell to if i have enough talent.

sent you a PM

mreco99

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2011, 08:41:13 AM »
..... Id buy a 5dmkii now if it werent for aliasing on video.

You can get filters to deal with moire and anti aliasing.

CJRodgers

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2011, 11:10:16 AM »
Is it software or hardware filters your talking about? I just seen pn phillip blooms blog a filter that gets rid of it pretty much but i dont know if its for sale yet?

Thanks

Craig

mreco99

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2011, 01:32:54 PM »
Hardware filter, i just cant find the link right now, but looks impressive

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2011, 01:32:54 PM »

dgsphto

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2011, 02:54:41 PM »
No reason why it should be $2999.99. At it's launch, the 5Dmk2 was missing a lot of things and was way over priced in that sense. Canon just needs to include what it trimmed from the 5Dmk2 at that same price level.

Honestly, take the sensor and Image processing of 5Dmk2 and everything else from 7D and it should meet the needs of most people. Don't tell me that a 7D with it's sensor traded up for the one from 5Dmk2 with updated firmware should cost more that 7D cost + $300. The only other area for costs should be developing better metering system but Canon has been recovering that for the past couple of generations of DSLRs since 2006/2007 and, to me, have to deliver now without presenting it as an incremental cost to the consumers!  >:(

neuroanatomist

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2011, 03:35:46 PM »
Don't tell me that a 7D with it's sensor traded up for the one from 5Dmk2 with updated firmware should cost more that 7D cost + $300.

Just based on geometry, from a round silicon wafer (the source material for CMOS sensors) you can get around 5 times as many APS-C sensors as FF sensors, and due to the greater impact of random imperfections on a larger sensor, a lower percentage of FF sensors will pass QC.  Based on  just the sensor, I'd expect greater than just a $300 differential, all else being equal. 
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dgsphto

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2011, 06:14:38 PM »
Don't tell me that a 7D with it's sensor traded up for the one from 5Dmk2 with updated firmware should cost more that 7D cost + $300.

Just based on geometry, from a round silicon wafer (the source material for CMOS sensors) you can get around 5 times as many APS-C sensors as FF sensors, and due to the greater impact of random imperfections on a larger sensor, a lower percentage of FF sensors will pass QC.  Based on  just the sensor, I'd expect greater than just a $300 differential, all else being equal.

Wikipedia lists the yields from a 8" wafer at 112 APS-C sensors to 30 FF sensors. So I am inclined to think that it's about 4:1 ratio after all things said and done.

The price to replace a sensor on a 5D is about $1K ball park. This is Canon's sale cost to the consumer.

Parts, especially consumer electronics, are marked up at a huge premium (about 50% to 60% margin of sale costs based on some readings in the past on the net), so I would think it would cost Canon to about $400 a piece, if that, to make it.

How much do you think it would cost Canon to make a APS-C sensor? $100 maybe (at the 1:4 ratio).

« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 06:17:00 PM by dgsphto »

Gothmoth

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2011, 07:10:06 PM »
Excellent topic, and really interesting picture is emerging here.
Looks like except hand full of professionals, some really crazy enthusiasts, may be some lawyers, dentists and yes neuroanatmist, nobody else can afford FF or in other words humble 35 mm format digital camera.
I really hope Canon, and others are not creating this elitist  club with premeditation...
Good night everybody!

just last week i sold a 5D MK2 with an 70-200mm f4 to an 19 year old student.
he works at fast food chain to get money for his hobby.

he said all his friends spend their money on cars. he spends it on photo gear.

my brother bought a 5000 euro PC workstation that, with some luck, is worth 2500 euros next year.
people spend money on things that are important for them.

my neighbor has spend 30000 euros on kois.... that´s crazy!   ;D

dgsphto

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2011, 07:28:54 PM »

.....so I would think it would cost Canon to about $400 a piece, if that, to make it.....


Looks like I was very close in my estimates:

http://www.naturescapes.net/docs/index.php/category-technical/223-the-economics-of-digital-photo-sensors

JonJT

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2011, 07:35:22 PM »
Excellent topic, and really interesting picture is emerging here.
Looks like except hand full of professionals, some really crazy enthusiasts, may be some lawyers, dentists and yes neuroanatmist, nobody else can afford FF or in other words humble 35 mm format digital camera.
I really hope Canon, and others are not creating this elitist  club with premeditation...
Good night everybody!

Eh. I'm a young, gainfully employed engineer. Two of the young people i know who have 5D/5Diis are also engineers.

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2011, 07:35:22 PM »

K-amps

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2011, 10:26:18 AM »

.....so I would think it would cost Canon to about $400 a piece, if that, to make it.....


Looks like I was very close in my estimates:

http://www.naturescapes.net/docs/index.php/category-technical/223-the-economics-of-digital-photo-sensors

Thanks for sharing.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2011, 01:23:07 PM »

.....so I would think it would cost Canon to about $400 a piece, if that, to make it.....


Looks like I was very close in my estimates:

http://www.naturescapes.net/docs/index.php/category-technical/223-the-economics-of-digital-photo-sensors

Close in your cost estimate, at least based on that analysis.

Wikipedia lists the yields from a 8" wafer at 112 APS-C sensors to 30 FF sensors. So I am inclined to think that it's about 4:1 ratio after all things said and done.

The price to replace a sensor on a 5D is about $1K ball park. This is Canon's sale cost to the consumer.

Parts, especially consumer electronics, are marked up at a huge premium (about 50% to 60% margin of sale costs based on some readings in the past on the net), so I would think it would cost Canon to about $400 a piece, if that, to make it.

How much do you think it would cost Canon to make a APS-C sensor? $100 maybe (at the 1:4 ratio).

But the referenced article actually estimates a ~10:1 ratio (much higher than mine, which was a little higher than yours).   IIRC, Canon's white paper on FF sensors mentioned ~200 APS-C per wafer, vs. 20 FF, and that doesn't account for lost yield due to defects.

Also, you're right about the huge markup, and recall that the original statement that launched this discussion was, "Don't tell me that a 7D with it's sensor traded up for the one from 5Dmk2 with updated firmware should cost more that 7D cost + $300."  So, while your $400 estimate for the cost of a FF sensor was very close, that $300 difference (or $350 based on the linked article) will translate closer to around a $600 difference.  When you then add in the additional costs for other components that need to be larger (pentaprism, mirror/shutter assembly, etc.), and mark them up appropraitely, you will likely arrive somewhere in the $900-1000 range.  Not coincidentally, that's the cost difference between the 7D and the 5DII...
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Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2011, 01:23:07 PM »