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Author Topic: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]  (Read 19708 times)

sfunglee

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #120 on: October 16, 2013, 07:45:42 AM »
Oh 7DII seem too long to go..

Canon seems asking 7D user to choose 70D or 1Dx...

Sound like Canon designing the 8pfs for MoviE soon? @.@

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #120 on: October 16, 2013, 07:45:42 AM »

chris_w_digits

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #121 on: October 16, 2013, 02:15:25 PM »
regnwaldo, your top bird picture with the "streaking" in the background almost looks as if the out-of-focus background was separated from the in-focus foreground and some kind variant of inverse filtering or reconstruction was attempted on it to remove motion blur or defocus, then placed back in the image behind the foreground.   It looks a bit puzzling.

jgharding

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #122 on: October 17, 2013, 05:36:42 AM »
With regard to video, Canon's own (very) long-term road map s to blend still and video:



Did anyone watch the concept video for the above camera? The plan is to give a constant stream of full quality raw frames and allow you to pick the stills you want.

No more will we hear "wow we have 10fps for sports!" but more like "my 8k sensor (33MP in photo terms) runs 60fps raw and I pick the still I want to process."

Never miss that shot...

To be honest I expect Nikon to lag quite a way behind for a long while.

jgharding

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #123 on: October 17, 2013, 09:19:18 AM »
In what way?
Nikon  can deal with Sony, Toshiba, Renesas,Aptina ,Omnivision .  Canon are alone
Your faith in Canon is touching.

It is with tears in my eyes  when I now  can read here at CR that people have  been discovered whats going on with Canons  sensors tech even here, we who are using many cameras allready know it.
qoute:The megapixel debate? As I’ve said previously, I used to not care about megapixel count until I used the Nikon D800, the files are remarkable and I’m more than happy to have the extra pixels. Canon is not only behind Nikon in this regard, they’re now getting trumped by the 36.4mp A7R.

Pekka with many good L lenses and where a 1dx is no solutions with low resolution, old DR tech.
That camera is aimed for sport photograpers which Im not



My apologies, I don't think unsolicited touching is good practice!

"Faith" is a strong word, they're just tools, I've owned or hired tools made by many companies, Canon, Hasselblad, Red, Arri, Sony so on...

I've never found Nikon on that list yet though. If I were hiring a body for a high MP shoot I'd probably go medium format, if it were action or non-studio I'd stick to the Canon bodies I know, and I know those Canon menus because they were smart enough to get me into their photo bodies via video and still combined.

It's a great customer acquisition strategy, and it's a winning one. Hence them eating Sony's old camcorder market almost completely.

Nikon have no video division and no established pedigree in any such area, so they'll doubtless try to grab those angry about video by emphasising stills... but long term I don't think it's wise to ignore the few extra firmware tweaks required to add great video.

I have absolutely no vested interest in either company, I don't work for any of them and I'll use whatever is good!

But experience tells us, Canon will have their 30-odd MP body before too long, and it'll all continue.

The point of my post is simple: video is a long-term strategy for Canon, and one that's seen them take over the corporate video sector with C300, raising the profile of their hybrid imaging at the same time.

Nikon have made no such advances. Their sensor is Sony. Their own SLR mount can't take as much glass as EF or mirror-less. The video is not as well implemented. 3rd party hacks aren't available. Because of all of this, when it came to D800 or 5D MKiii I chose the latter. Not because of "faith" but because it's the most balanced product.

If you don't use video, fair enough, but business matters. If Nikon don't keep up, they'll be eaten up. The sales speak for themselves. Here's one example:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941?tag=crf-20


Without significant innovation, their very long-term prospect (10-15 year) appears to be: get bought by someone else. Maybe Sony?


Ruined

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #124 on: October 18, 2013, 03:43:08 PM »
In what way?
Nikon  can deal with Sony, Toshiba, Renesas,Aptina ,Omnivision .  Canon are alone
Your faith in Canon is touching.

It is with tears in my eyes  when I now  can read here at CR that people have  been discovered whats going on with Canons  sensors tech even here, we who are using many cameras allready know it.
qoute:The megapixel debate? As I’ve said previously, I used to not care about megapixel count until I used the Nikon D800, the files are remarkable and I’m more than happy to have the extra pixels. Canon is not only behind Nikon in this regard, they’re now getting trumped by the 36.4mp A7R.

Pekka with many good L lenses and where a 1dx is no solutions with low resolution, old DR tech.
That camera is aimed for sport photograpers which Im not

So I guess you have thrown away all your Canons, Sonys, and Nikons and bought the 41MP Nokia Lumia 1020 cameraphone since MP is king eh?  :) 36MP is a lot of pixels, also a lot of marketing.

Reminds me of when people plan to buy a 55" 4K HDTV, simply because 4K is so many more pixels than 1080p... Even though the size of the TV is too small to demonstrate any difference at all.  As pixel density increases, at a point diminishing returns are reached - and then pixel density increases simply are marketing decisions.

There are literally tons of other things that can affect image quality adversely, so putting all your eggs in the MP basket probably isn't the best bet.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:49:20 PM by Ruined »

regnwaldo

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #125 on: October 18, 2013, 08:39:24 PM »
chris_w_digits, yes it is puzzling. An out-of-focus point should degenerate to a circle, as in the honeyeater photo. As you say, bg and bird parts of the image have been separated, bg stacked, and bird re-inserted. I DID NOT DO THAT! The Canon 70D did it! I'll have to start a thread on this. The Canon 70D Diagonal Image Processing Defect (DIP defect). The reason for raising this under 7D was that so many of us dreamed od the 7D Mk II that it was a surprise the 70D was released first - perhaps prematurely, with an indication of what was in store. I suspect defective sw aimed at image stabilization, although I have not read of it. I also suspect the sw was not properly assessed with long focus lenses. I don't take many shots at less than 300mm. But I have some hundred shots with the DIP defect at 500 mm.

ajfotofilmagem

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #126 on: October 18, 2013, 09:35:36 PM »
With regard to video, Canon's own (very) long-term road map s to blend still and video:



Did anyone watch the concept video for the above camera? The plan is to give a constant stream of full quality raw frames and allow you to pick the stills you want.

No more will we hear "wow we have 10fps for sports!" but more like "my 8k sensor (33MP in photo terms) runs 60fps raw and I pick the still I want to process."

Never miss that shot...

To be honest I expect Nikon to lag quite a way behind for a long while.


In what way?
Nikon  can deal with Sony, Toshiba, Renesas,Aptina ,Omnivision .  Canon are alone
Your faith in Canon is touching.

It is with tears in my eyes  when I now  can read here at CR that people have  been discovered whats going on with Canons  sensors tech even here, we who are using many cameras allready know it.
qoute:The megapixel debate? As I’ve said previously, I used to not care about megapixel count until I used the Nikon D800, the files are remarkable and I’m more than happy to have the extra pixels. Canon is not only behind Nikon in this regard, they’re now getting trumped by the 36.4mp A7R.

Pekka with many good L lenses and where a 1dx is no solutions with low resolution, old DR tech.
That camera is aimed for sport photograpers which Im not

Why do I seem to hear such a Mikael, or Ankorwat, saying something like that anyway?. :o
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 07:57:01 PM by ajfotofilmagem »

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #126 on: October 18, 2013, 09:35:36 PM »

scottkinfw

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #127 on: October 18, 2013, 11:45:24 PM »
I agree, but at least with the VHS/Beta, I think the real issue was marketing over quality, so there are issues in play that cause these ironic outcomes.

...Canon's real goal is to sell cameras, and to sell more cameras than the competition.  Despite being 'behind' in sensor performance compared to Exmor sensors for the past several APS-C dSLR generations, Canon continues to outsell Nikon (and Sony remains a niche player).  What lesson can Canon learn from this?  That the performance of Canon's internally-produced sensors is good enough to support market leading sales.  As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

This is something gearheads never understand. "Best" almost never wins in the marketplace. "Good enough" almost always wins. The iPhone isn't the best smartphone, but it's good enough. Windows wasn't the best operating system, but it was good enough. VHS wasn't the best video technology, but it was good enough. The gasoline-powered internal combustion engine wasn't the best engine, but it was good enough. The list goes on and on.

Heck, Canon was never the "best." When I bought my Canon F1 in the 1970s, it wasn't the best camera system. Among SLRs Nikon was considered the best and among 35mm cameras generally, Leica was the best. But, through shrewd marketing and perseverance, Canon overcame it's competitors and became the market leader.  Superiority for the sake of superiority has never been Canon's objective. They grew to market dominance by providing a "good enough" system that balances cost and quality. Don't expect them to abandon that winning strategy just because gear geeks are upset about an irrelevant, marginal difference in lab tests.
sek
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scottkinfw

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #128 on: October 19, 2013, 12:01:32 AM »
You make sense, and I agree with you completely, but I must say, I enjoy the prose of Pekka (punctuation/spelling not withstanding ;)  ).   
In what way?
Nikon  can deal with Sony, Toshiba, Renesas,Aptina ,Omnivision .  Canon are alone
Your faith in Canon is touching.

It is with tears in my eyes  when I now  can read here at CR that people have  been discovered whats going on with Canons  sensors tech even here, we who are using many cameras allready know it.
qoute:The megapixel debate? As I’ve said previously, I used to not care about megapixel count until I used the Nikon D800, the files are remarkable and I’m more than happy to have the extra pixels. Canon is not only behind Nikon in this regard, they’re now getting trumped by the 36.4mp A7R.

Pekka with many good L lenses and where a 1dx is no solutions with low resolution, old DR tech.
That camera is aimed for sport photograpers which Im not



My apologies, I don't think unsolicited touching is good practice!

"Faith" is a strong word, they're just tools, I've owned or hired tools made by many companies, Canon, Hasselblad, Red, Arri, Sony so on...

I've never found Nikon on that list yet though. If I were hiring a body for a high MP shoot I'd probably go medium format, if it were action or non-studio I'd stick to the Canon bodies I know, and I know those Canon menus because they were smart enough to get me into their photo bodies via video and still combined.

It's a great customer acquisition strategy, and it's a winning one. Hence them eating Sony's old camcorder market almost completely.

Nikon have no video division and no established pedigree in any such area, so they'll doubtless try to grab those angry about video by emphasising stills... but long term I don't think it's wise to ignore the few extra firmware tweaks required to add great video.

I have absolutely no vested interest in either company, I don't work for any of them and I'll use whatever is good!

But experience tells us, Canon will have their 30-odd MP body before too long, and it'll all continue.

The point of my post is simple: video is a long-term strategy for Canon, and one that's seen them take over the corporate video sector with C300, raising the profile of their hybrid imaging at the same time.

Nikon have made no such advances. Their sensor is Sony. Their own SLR mount can't take as much glass as EF or mirror-less. The video is not as well implemented. 3rd party hacks aren't available. Because of all of this, when it came to D800 or 5D MKiii I chose the latter. Not because of "faith" but because it's the most balanced product.

If you don't use video, fair enough, but business matters. If Nikon don't keep up, they'll be eaten up. The sales speak for themselves. Here's one example:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941?tag=crf-20


Without significant innovation, their very long-term prospect (10-15 year) appears to be: get bought by someone else. Maybe Sony?
sek
Cameras: 5D III, 5D II, 50D Lenses:  24-70 208 II, 24-105 f4L, 70-200 f4L IS, 70-200 f2.8L IS II, EF 300 f4L IS, EF 400 5.6L, 600EX-RT, ST-E3-RT

Lichtgestalt

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #129 on: October 19, 2013, 05:14:24 AM »
Quote
My objection to the 70D is the defective processing of hand held shots. Canon does something TOO smart. This is one of a hundred or so pics using 500mm hand held 1/750 sec with defective bg, I suspect image stabilization software.  ALL of them with bg foliage 'streaking' from top right to bottom left. The honeyeater was photographed  using a 5D Mk II in the same fashion with NEVER such a problem.

So, heaven help the 7D Mk II dreamers.


and you really think canon has not tested the 70D with long lenses and this is a common issue?
my 100 bucks are on a problem with your specific camera.

jarrieta

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #130 on: October 19, 2013, 10:06:02 PM »
Why do I seem to hear such a Mikael, or Ankorwat, saying something like that anyway. :o

Same thing crossed my mind.  :)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 12:49:23 AM by jarrieta »

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #130 on: October 19, 2013, 10:06:02 PM »