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Author Topic: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]  (Read 25626 times)

9VIII

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2013, 09:50:37 PM »
I for one don't mind having the dual functionality.

Now that we're not being told to expect the 70D sensor I've got my hopes back up for something with higher resolution. 32MP would be awesome as long as they keep the buffer up to 15 shots+ on full RAW.

I want a minimum 3 second raw buffer at maximum frame rate, preferably more.

A 30 frame buffer on the 7D2 would be great, but that puts it on-par with the 1Dx. I'm afraid of the pricing Canon might want to apply if they actually make the 7D2 a crop sensor 1Dx.
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2013, 09:50:37 PM »

mps

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2013, 09:55:22 PM »
Dissing video means you are afraid of the future
It's here to stay.

true - and lets not forget - when you come home, fall down on your couch and start getting brainwashed by TV - lots of this stuff is shot with these cameras! as a matter of fact, most of our movies (we shoot docs for german TV, quotas about 12-15% aka 10 million viewers) is a combination of pmw200 footage (4;2;2 50 mbit to meet broadcast requirements) and low DoF 7D footage - its a perfect combination!

CarlMillerPhoto

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2013, 10:41:38 PM »
Improved high ISO video performance would be very welcome. 7d footage at 1600 and above just looks horrible. I understand how the smaller pixel size on APS-C sensors is a limitation, but it would be SOO nice to have a Canon crop at least equal to just the Mark II as far video ISO performance.

Would it be possible to create a ~24mp APS-C sensor (so lets say pixel size of: 4µm) but use larger pixels (something closer to full frame size: 6.4µm.....or even bigger like 8µm) for the pixels designated for video, (resulting in AWESOME low-light performance)? Or does having different pixel sizes on the same sensor simply not work for whatever reason?

And I can think of a ton of photo applications for such technology as well. I'm one of those weirdos who would love a 8-10MP camera with ridiculous pixel size and thus great high ISO performance. Plus getting 14fps+ should be a breeze with that image size.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 10:53:42 PM by CarlMillerPhoto »
My photography equipment goes here, apparently.

garyknrd

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2013, 11:09:56 PM »
   Canon has backed itself in a corner.  Canon does not have the sensor technology now to offer an update IMO.
Time to move on. I am selling the 7D. I put the brakes on buying new Canon equipment when they failed to deliver a good crop camera for me. Now 1 year since I stopped buying Canon gear.

Fortunately I have some good lenses for Pentax. With the new K-3. If AF is fairly accurate I am moving on.

If and when a new enthusiast Canon crop camera materializes. Then I will think about it.


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pwp

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2013, 11:38:08 PM »
How about the 7D Mark II being basically a 70D, but with a sensor which starts with ISO 800 ... meaning it has an optimised, high-ISO sensor designed for high-speed and low-light photography.
You wouldn't want to leave home without a good set of ND filters...

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AprilForever

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2013, 11:40:03 PM »
What could you add to the 70D to make it more video oriented?

Hybrid EVF/OVF viewfinder?
Faster frame rates below 1080p?
Higher resolution (4k)?
Smooth digital video zoom from full-frame to 1:1?
Quad pixel for 4-way AF sensors on every pixel?
Some sort of power zoom lens system?

A ton! No line skipping for FAR less aliasing and moire and better SNR. Focus peaking, live 10x focus box, RAW video recording, non-mangled up compressed video/HDMI out video, zebras, zoomed modes including 1:1, 4k, etc. etc.

I know it's popular if you are a still shooter to laugh off video, but seriously why not expand your creativity to new world. 5D3 ML RAW video is pretty stunning! Some things work better as video, just as some work better as stills and many work equally as well.

Because I don't want to expand to video. I actually have shot video with the 7D, for pay, for a small independent video I will never name (it was that bad... but money is money... ). I don't like shooting video. I like stills. I want a camera completely optomized for stills, and I don't like paying money for video.

Video is a totally different world than stills; I can only do so much well, and working on video is somethign I would rather trim than have to deal with.
What is truth?

bvukich

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2013, 01:25:04 AM »
My guess - greater than 22.1 megapixels. That gives you 3x1920 pixels across, allowing for easy bining of a 3x3 pixel block from the sensor into a single pixel of 1920x1080 video... add a few pixels to each side for video stabilization and the 24MP sensor looks very likely.

How is binning at 3x3 on a grid that repeats at 2x2 easy?


Photosensors are in a 2x2 grid, but you're not binning a quad of photosensors; just the reds together, greens together (x2), and blues together...  So yes, it is easy.

In the attached image you bin the following:
r1+r1+r1+r1+r1+r1+r1+r1+r1=r1'
g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1=g₁1'
g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1=g₂1'
b1+b1+b1+b1+b1+b1+b1+b1=b1'
And you bin down right back into a bayer pattern which you can than save as-is, or demosaic, or whatever.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2013, 01:25:04 AM »

RGomezPhotos

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2013, 01:52:19 AM »
Add me to the list of "No video functions".  I have the 5D Mark II and haven't touched the video portion at all.  If I want to do video, I'll hire someone or get a dedicated video cam....
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Lawliet

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2013, 02:50:19 AM »
Or does having different pixel sizes on the same sensor simply not work for whatever reason?
You'd need an AA-filter with adjustable strength. Possible, but has Canon the proper patents?
And then pattern noise and assorted nastiness with the on sensor wiring come up.

Better bet: do it like the 70D for AF, read multiple subsensels together. Instead of just the AF-parts combine 18 elements from 9 AF capable sensels a 22+ MP sensor would have for fHD video. Less noise-both from the area as well as statistical cancellation of readout noise, the latter being Canons weak spot atm-, and with the right interweaving reduced moire.

TheJock

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2013, 03:01:07 AM »
I don’t know why the video function on our EOS’ is such a major issue with everyone, I’ve personally never used it, in fact I’d need to get the user manual out to begin with, but I know it’s there and that makes me happy.  It’s like that old situation, you’re in a pub in Glasgow on a Saturday night and you hit the jackpot with the honey of your dreams, I’d rather know I had that condom!!!!! ;)

But back on topic, I ‘m looking forward to the 7D MKII release as it’ll force the price of the 7D MKI and 70D down some more, then I’ll be able to buy one of the later and an “L” series lens!!
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 03:08:49 AM by TheJock »
70D - 100-400L - 24-105L - 50 f1.8 II - Sigma 10-20 f4-5.6 - Sigma 610 ST.
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moreorless

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2013, 03:19:02 AM »
What could you add to the 70D to make it more video oriented?

Hybrid EVF/OVF viewfinder?

If it can be achieved I think this could be the best move, the new 7D would seem like the perfect camera to introduce it on as it looks like it might struggle to differentiate itself otherwise.

TheJock

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2013, 03:50:25 AM »
Well, I doubt it will cost $2000.  Probably $1699 tops.   If its more video oriented than it still needs to come with a swivel screen, headphone output, and get rid of the moire/aliasing like the 5D Mark lll did.
70D is 1099€, I bet the 7D2 ist 2000-2500€
I know this may be irrelevant to most, however; the 70D (body only) is currently 804 Euro’s in Dubai, or 1,105 Euro’s with the 18-135 IS STM, so if your passing through and plan on purchasing one, there’s some good deals here. 
70D - 100-400L - 24-105L - 50 f1.8 II - Sigma 10-20 f4-5.6 - Sigma 610 ST.
Next on the hit list - 100L f2.8 USM macro + 1.4xTCIII + 2xTCIII + 430 EX-II
My Flickr - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126853167@N07/

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2013, 06:28:37 AM »
The actual prototypes that are out for testing don´t have the 70D sensor, a CF card slot, a fixed display, no stupid RATE-button, AEB like the 5D Mark III, a better AF system as the 70D, AF works down to -3 EV and are NOT video oriented. It´s a camera for semipro photographers, but you can make good videos with it.

The Mark II is a perfect camera for all photographers who want an APS-C body for all possible shots. Sports, Action and Wildlife shots included.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2013, 06:28:37 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2013, 06:34:52 AM »
don´t have the 70D sensor

Meaning better low-light / higher shutter speed capability, or just some more mp like the current 18mp->20mp aps-c?

Lee Jay

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2013, 08:53:44 AM »
My guess - greater than 22.1 megapixels. That gives you 3x1920 pixels across, allowing for easy bining of a 3x3 pixel block from the sensor into a single pixel of 1920x1080 video... add a few pixels to each side for video stabilization and the 24MP sensor looks very likely.

How is binning at 3x3 on a grid that repeats at 2x2 easy?


Photosensors are in a 2x2 grid, but you're not binning a quad of photosensors; just the reds together, greens together (x2), and blues together...  So yes, it is easy.

In the attached image you bin the following:
r1+r1+r1+r1+r1+r1+r1+r1+r1=r1'
g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1+g₁1=g₁1'
g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1+g₂1=g₂1'
b1+b1+b1+b1+b1+b1+b1+b1=b1'
And you bin down right back into a bayer pattern which you can than save as-is, or demosaic, or whatever.

That method throws away half the light collected.

The 2x2 approach bins the 2 greens, 1 red and 1 blue in the block into 1 RGB pixel.  Simple and no light lost.

Rather than do the above, why not demosaic and interpolate with a simple interpolation method like bilinear?  That way, you'd at least keep all the light.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2013, 08:53:44 AM »