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Author Topic: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]  (Read 24099 times)

unfocused

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2013, 05:29:08 PM »
...Boo frikkity hoo. How can I press the shutter button now knowing my camera has features I don't use, oh no. This is worse than the print button. Save me.

good comparison  ;D

* Both, the ubiquitous marked-in-red red "record video" button on every DSLRS and the former
"direct print button" are utterly useless to the overwhelming majority of DSLR users...

* The marked in red "capture stupid video"-button is directly under users thumbs in a prime ergonomic property location on every camera today


On my 7D the video button is also the live-view button and you have to move a switch over in order to shoot video. I guess I don't really need a live view button, but I'm not expecting Canon to reconfigure their bodies just to suit my personal taste.

Don't people have better things to do than fixate on this? It's about as productive as demanding that car manufacturers remove electric windows because you are capable of cranking the window down by hand.
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2013, 05:29:08 PM »

Marsu42

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2013, 02:51:29 AM »
I mean, it's obvious that video changed the price of the bodies

Indeed - since Magic Lantern added 1080p raw capability to the 5d3 a few month ago the price has not been going down anymore but rather up afaik, due to the demand from the video crowd :-o

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2013, 06:51:34 AM »
I mean, it's obvious that video changed the price of the bodies

Indeed - since Magic Lantern added 1080p raw capability to the 5d3 a few month ago the price has not been going down anymore but rather up afaik, due to the demand from the video crowd :-o

How does ML explain the price increase on some lenses, or the price decrease on others?  ;)
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Marsu42

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2013, 07:00:01 AM »
How does ML explain the price increase on some lenses, or the price decrease on others?  ;)

There is? With my budget being spend for this century, I now don't follow lens prices anymore :-o

Anyway: I was stating an observation, and I know that a correlation is not a causality... but it stands to reason with the 5d3 being an extremely good raw video camera (next to the 50d, that is) with a big community to provide the necessary raw workflow there will be additional demand - even lensrentals seems to have ml-equipped cameras now.

Raja Baruah

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #94 on: October 12, 2013, 05:23:06 AM »
Very happy if canon 7D MkII will come with a swiveling LCD!! Think a swiveling LCD will help lot in DSLR Videography!!

Loren E

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #95 on: October 13, 2013, 07:07:19 PM »
A 7DII with slight megapixel increase, awesome high ISO, AF system from 5Dmk III and same build/FPS as the current 7D...a lot of wildlife and sports shooters would be pretty pleased I think!

mkabi

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: October 14, 2013, 01:09:03 AM »
Very happy if canon 7D MkII will come with a swiveling LCD!! Think a swiveling LCD will help lot in DSLR Videography!!

Not going to happen... destroys the purpose of indestructibility and weatherproofing.
If you have the swivel open and you drop the DSLR, its going to break.
Too many creases between the swivel parts that make it less waterproof.

If you like swivel screen so much stick with the 70D.
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: October 14, 2013, 01:09:03 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #97 on: October 14, 2013, 02:02:58 AM »
Not going to happen... destroys the purpose of indestructibility and weatherproofing.
If you have the swivel open and you drop the DSLR, its going to break.
Too many creases between the swivel parts that make it less waterproof.

This is an urban legend, of course you can make a waterproof swivel screen, man has been to the moon.

And the "it might break if open" is like "you must not use a flash on a hotshoe, it will break if dropped" or "only use p&s with retractable lens, a lens on a dslr will break"... the swivel screen only on the 60d/70d and not on 7d is because 7d is older, and might not on 7d2 because of product differentiation and people believe this legend. Furthermore, you'll usually use the swivel screen when on tripod, and it makes a great screen *protector* when turned inwards.

Loren E

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #98 on: October 14, 2013, 03:00:10 AM »
A 7DII with slight megapixel increase, awesome high ISO, AF system from 5Dmk III and same build/FPS as the current 7D...a lot of wildlife and sports shooters would be pretty pleased I think!

awersome high iso and APS , please tell me how it should be done

I should have qualified "awesome" - I'm not asking for 5DmkIII high ISO obviously since a couple years of sensor development won't trump a significantly larger sensor of course - I'm talking D7100 awesome which I found to have much better high ISO performance than 7D.

CarlMillerPhoto

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #99 on: October 14, 2013, 03:16:08 AM »
Improved high ISO video performance would be very welcome. 7d footage at 1600 and above just looks horrible. I understand how the smaller pixel size on APS-C sensors is a limitation, but it would be SOO nice to have a Canon crop at least equal to just the Mark II as far video ISO performance.

Would it be possible to create a ~24mp APS-C sensor (so lets say pixel size of: 4µm) but use larger pixels (something closer to full frame size: 6.4µm.....or even bigger like 8µm) for the pixels designated for video, (resulting in AWESOME low-light performance)? Or does having different pixel sizes on the same sensor simply not work for whatever reason?

And I can think of a ton of photo applications for such technology as well. I'm one of those weirdos who would love a 8-10MP camera with ridiculous pixel size and thus great high ISO performance. Plus getting 14fps+ should be a breeze with that image size.

Ugh, the "large pixel" myth rears its ugly head again. Lower resolution sensors gain you nothing but a smaller file size. Full frame sensors are better in low light because of increased total surface area.


You don't seem to understand the relationship between pixel size and signal to noise ratio. All other factors equal, larger pixels collect more light than smaller ones, thus giving them better noise performance. It's not a "myth," it's physics.
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GMCPhotographics

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #100 on: October 14, 2013, 05:48:51 AM »
Improved high ISO video performance would be very welcome. 7d footage at 1600 and above just looks horrible. I understand how the smaller pixel size on APS-C sensors is a limitation, but it would be SOO nice to have a Canon crop at least equal to just the Mark II as far video ISO performance.

Would it be possible to create a ~24mp APS-C sensor (so lets say pixel size of: 4µm) but use larger pixels (something closer to full frame size: 6.4µm.....or even bigger like 8µm) for the pixels designated for video, (resulting in AWESOME low-light performance)? Or does having different pixel sizes on the same sensor simply not work for whatever reason?

And I can think of a ton of photo applications for such technology as well. I'm one of those weirdos who would love a 8-10MP camera with ridiculous pixel size and thus great high ISO performance. Plus getting 14fps+ should be a breeze with that image size.

Ugh, the "large pixel" myth rears its ugly head again. Lower resolution sensors gain you nothing but a smaller file size. Full frame sensors are better in low light because of increased total surface area.


You don't seem to understand the relationship between pixel size and signal to noise ratio. All other factors equal, larger pixels collect more light than smaller ones, thus giving them better noise performance. It's not a "myth," it's physics.

It's true if everything else is equal or the same. Nikon have gained a bit of DR by placing their D/A converted earlier in the on chip processing path than Canon which is wjy they ahve a little more DR at the moment, but it's not a huge difference. Processing, chip design and on chip NR all have an effect on iso noise performance. But yes, the general rule is smaller the pixels, the greater the noise.
But here' the irony, the physical size of the pixel is the same for all DSLR's....it's the size of the bin which it sits in that collects the quality of light. This bin (with the pixel sitting at the bottom) is capped off with a micro lens which more directs light to it. Once upon a time, the iso noise was controlled by the size of the microlenses. Every time there was a jump in MP, Canon would make the micro lenses proportionally bigger to equalise the iso noise...then Nikon spoiled it all and used the largest possible (gapless) on a full frame 12 mp sensor in the D3...thus shooting themselves in the foot for a short term iso advantage. Once the public got used to that level of iso performance...they demanded al the time...even from cameras with twice the resolution, whihc has caused the entire processing path to be re-designed to extract the maximum performance. I doubt that there will be much increase in MP goign forwards....I think the Nikon D800 has proved that point. More MP means more resolution at low iso values...but really poor iso performance at high iso values. Canon is wise sticking to the ~20mp region for a while. It's the best res / iso ratio.
If we consider the slight difference in iso abilities between the 1Dx, 6D and 5DIII...it's clear that it's purely the quantity of MP which is dictating the iso abilities. Slightly lower mp = slightly improved Iso performance.
If we consider the abilities of the 1Dx, it's quite extraordinary. 18mp, 12 fps and iso 6400 is SO clean! 

GMCPhotographics

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #101 on: October 14, 2013, 05:55:33 AM »
A 7DII with slight megapixel increase, awesome high ISO, AF system from 5Dmk III and same build/FPS as the current 7D...a lot of wildlife and sports shooters would be pretty pleased I think!

The problem with the current 7D (which I discovered quite early on...I was an early adoptor and then defector) is with the sensor not the rest of the camera. In fact it's a fantastic camera, let down by it's mediocre sensor performance. 18mp is fine, no issues there. But I found a lack of micro contrast, a certain milkyness and softness at 100% which I've not seen in any other Canon DSLR. I needed to selectively sharpen it's images. I concluded that this was due to an over active Aliasing filter to smooth out video footage.
I found it's iso performance quite poor too. I was seeing a stop and a half loss against a 5DII, even at Iso 400 I saw a lot of noise.
While I liked it's handling, 8fps and great AF system (for then), I found it's IQ and sensor to be lacking. Maybe this will improve with the mkII..I hope so, this camera deserves a better sensor.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: October 14, 2013, 05:56:45 AM »
CarlMiller is right:
All other factors equal, larger pixels collect more light than smaller ones, thus giving them better noise performance. It's not a "myth," it's physics.

However in real life, "all other factors are rarely ever equal". :-)
In real life, Nikon/Sony (currently) have simply better sensors than Canon. Twice the resolution and yet significantly better dynamic range - on the same sensor surface area. As nicely demonstrated in the chart posted by Canonpekka.
D800 and 1dx  DR/iso

Canon needs to step up image quality offered, rather than just optimizing video features in its stills cameras.  Nikon D7100 is too low a benchmark for a current 7D II. It needs to do even better, to be worthwhile.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: October 14, 2013, 05:56:45 AM »

GMCPhotographics

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #103 on: October 14, 2013, 05:58:41 AM »
Very happy if canon 7D MkII will come with a swiveling LCD!! Think a swiveling LCD will help lot in DSLR Videography!!

Not going to happen... destroys the purpose of indestructibility and weatherproofing.
If you have the swivel open and you drop the DSLR, its going to break.
Too many creases between the swivel parts that make it less waterproof.

If you like swivel screen so much stick with the 70D.

Canon have gone on record to say that they can't make a swivelling LCD screen which is robust enough to be classified as "Professional Grade". So we won't be seeing one on a 1D or 1X series.

Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: October 14, 2013, 08:05:44 AM »

Not going to happen... destroys the purpose of indestructibility and weatherproofing.
If you have the swivel open and you drop the DSLR, its going to break.
Too many creases between the swivel parts that make it less waterproof.

If you like swivel screen so much stick with the 70D.
As someone who has a 60D with 70,000 shots on it, and who takes the camera hiking and canoeing (not a pampered life), let me make a few comments about tilt-swivel screens....

Waterproofing - the 60D, with a tilt-swivel screen, is surprisingly well sealed. According to canon, the level of sealing is supposed to be the same as a 5D3, not as good as a 1Dx or 7D, but better than a 6D or the rebels.... You do not have to make the joints on a tilt-swivel mechanism waterproof, just the ends....

Protection - turn the screen around and it is protected from scratches... Mine is still scratch free, something which can not be said for my friends 5D2.... And her camera is less used than mine and has seen more gentle use.

Fragility - my local camera store says that they have seen more DSLR's with broken fixed screens than articulated screens (all manufacturers, not just Canon).... Perhaps it is because the "lower end" cameras get tossed instead if being fixed, but however you look at it, it is not a slam-dunk....perhaps transportation of a camera is more dangerous than usage of the camera?

« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 08:50:43 AM by Don Haines »
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Talk [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: October 14, 2013, 08:05:44 AM »